Report links Cheney office, oil giant to global warming policy shift

Kimbefly wrote:

<quoted text>
We all agree that we need to protect/preserve the environment - can't that suffice? Whether we're doing this for global warming or for geopolitical reasons doesn't really matter in the end, as long as we make the right decisions in the mean time.
I also really don't like it when young children are taught about tragedies they can do nothing about - it seems sadistic. So instead of feeding children fear of global warming and C02, lets let them be strong by having them help recycle and conserve energy - things that are in their power. That is all most of us can do as individuals, anyway.

We agree!!!!!!!!!!
But, are you willing to denounce the global warming theory. The thoery says we should warn our children that the current so-called climate crisis will make the earth a very bad place to live for future generations.

mememine69 wrote:

<quoted text>
We agree!!!!!!!!!!
But, are you willing to denounce the global warming theory. The thoery says we should warn our children that the current so-called climate crisis will make the earth a very bad place to live for future generations.

I know we agree, but as long as we (Americans) cling to political labels and name-calling, we will not get things done because of the illusion that we disagree.

I don't give one whit about global warming. Is it happening? Is it manmade? I don't know and I don't much care. One big volcano eruption would negate all the cap and trade policies in the world, and we can't control that.

I do care about the health of people, our national security, the ecology and the economy, and intelligent energy policy must necessarily be the basis of these things.

Kimbefly wrote:

<quoted text>I know we agree, but as long as we (Americans) cling to political labels and name-calling, we will not get things done because of the illusion that we disagree.
I don't give one whit about global warming. Is it happening? Is it manmade? I don't know and I don't much care. One big volcano eruption would negate all the cap and trade policies in the world, and we can't control that.
I do care about the health of people, our national security, the ecology and the economy, and intelligent energy policy must necessarily be the basis of these things.

You should also care about honesty and Specificity.

Kimbefly wrote:

<quoted text>I know we agree, but as long as we (Americans) cling to political labels and name-calling, we will not get things done because of the illusion that we disagree.
I don't give one whit about global warming. Is it happening? Is it manmade? I don't know and I don't much care. One big volcano eruption would negate all the cap and trade policies in the world, and we can't control that.
I do care about the health of people, our national security, the ecology and the economy, and intelligent energy policy must necessarily be the basis of these things.

Thank you. Welcome to reason and it's ok to call yourself a proud denier who wants to preserve, not save our environment when ever you are ready.
Cheers and peace.

Kimbefly wrote:

I don't give one whit about global warming. Is it happening? Is it manmade? I don't know and I don't much care.

And therein lies the biggest problem. Nobody wants to care until it affects them directly.

Were you a native Inuit, and the tundra was thawing, rendering your otherwise permanently frozen undergroud food storage area useless, then you'd care ?(and this IS happening)

Friggin' complacent bozos. The world is amok with them.

This problem we have come to realize, will creep up on us gently, then WHAM !!!

Waddya mean India and Pakistan are tossing nukes at each other ? 25 million people in Inda have already dies of starvation due to a drought that has not affect Pakistan..........

Worl hunger will be the number one destabilizing force, and that scenario WOULD have devastating effects.

mememine69 wrote:

<quoted text>
This isn’t science. If it were the Union of Concerned Scientists wouldn’t have given me a membership. Science is so political and media run that it’s laughable. Now they say global warming will destroy the genitalia of humans. See, it IS laughable. And trust me, history will laugh.
Give nature SOME credit. After billions of years do you actually think poor helpless mother earth is going down because of some SUV gas? Back in 1900 they wondered where to put all of the horses by the year 2000.
I have faith in the future of progress. Chill.
Our climate is not in crisis. If it is, give me an example of how it has affected you personally.

Yeah I think Scutter from LA was right. You work for Exxon or something. Or a Bush Scientist. Maybe a home schooled scientist.

You said; "After a billion years, poor helpless mother earth will go down because of some SUV gas?" Now we know your a hack. There is absolutely nothing scientific about such rambling nonsense.

Affected me personally? I've sat at bus stop and had to literally stop breathing because the exhaust would get that bad. I've switched lanes on the highway because a diesel spewing truck in front of me was filling the car with noxious gas.

When ever you see a big deisel spewing thick black smoke think this: It's happening one million times at this very moment. Every second, every day, around the clock without interuption. Where do you think all this exhaust goes. You've experienced Smog? You don't live under a rock? The glaciers are melting right? You've seen what's going on in China?

What rational person would think this daily deluge of pollution, on this massive scale has no detrimental effect? A "few SUV's" indeed.

Your not a scientist, but you play one on TV.

Fun Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
What evidence have you seen that has convinced you that there is global warming and that it is caused by man?

Glaciers, smog, rising temperatures, millions of barrels of oil being burned yearly, documentation of global dimming from a gazillion particles in the air, high levels of mercury in the fish so bad you can't eat it. That's just off the top of my head, why do you ask?

thomas wrote:

<quoted text>
Glaciers, smog, rising temperatures, millions of barrels of oil being burned yearly, documentation of global dimming from a gazillion particles in the air, high levels of mercury in the fish so bad you can't eat it. That's just off the top of my head, why do you ask?

Babbling lefty laundry list that has nothing to do with the AGW claims. Which just proves that the "AGW crisis" is just a smoke screen catch all for the lefty agenda.

"No matter if the science is all phony, there [are] collateral environmental benefits...climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
Christine Stewart, Canadian Environment Minister, Calgary Herald, December 14, 1998
http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/esahi...

Timothy Wirth, President Clinton's Assistant Secretary of State for Global Affairs:
"We've got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing, in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."
http://www.nationalcenter.org/dos7130.htm

Bean Counter wrote:

<quoted text>
And therein lies the biggest problem. Nobody wants to care until it affects them directly.
Were you a native Inuit, and the tundra was thawing, rendering your otherwise permanently frozen undergroud food storage area useless, then you'd care ?(and this IS happening)
Friggin' complacent bozos. The world is amok with them.
This problem we have come to realize, will creep up on us gently, then WHAM !!!
Waddya mean India and Pakistan are tossing nukes at each other ? 25 million people in Inda have already dies of starvation due to a drought that has not affect Pakistan..........
Worl hunger will be the number one destabilizing force, and that scenario WOULD have devastating effects.

Bean Counter - go back and read my posts. I am strenuously in favor of smart energy policy, including all alternatives, to the eventual exclusion of fossil fuels. I can't wait to buy an all-electric car and affordable solar panels.

My beef is that there is an imaginary fight between the T. Boone Pickens people and the Al Gore people, when the goals and methods for achieving them are very similar. We are allies in this endeavor, but as long as we call each other Repugnicans and Treehuggers, and all the other nasty names I see, nothing can get accomplished.

Bean Counter wrote:

<quoted text>
And therein lies the biggest problem. Nobody wants to care until it affects them directly.
Were you a native Inuit, and the tundra was thawing, rendering your otherwise permanently frozen undergroud food storage area useless, then you'd care ?(and this IS happening)
Friggin' complacent bozos. The world is amok with them.
This problem we have come to realize, will creep up on us gently, then WHAM !!!
Waddya mean India and Pakistan are tossing nukes at each other ? 25 million people in Inda have already dies of starvation due to a drought that has not affect Pakistan..........
Worl hunger will be the number one destabilizing force, and that scenario WOULD have devastating effects.

Yes, poor helpless and senstitive and weak and stupid mother nature. After Billions of years, some SUV gas is going to bring her to her knees.
You liberals will lie without any problem
Global warming equals WMD's LIES.

thomas wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah I think Scutter from LA was right. You work for Exxon or something. Or a Bush Scientist. Maybe a home schooled scientist.
You said; "After a billion years, poor helpless mother earth will go down because of some SUV gas?" Now we know your a hack. There is absolutely nothing scientific about such rambling nonsense.
Affected me personally? I've sat at bus stop and had to literally stop breathing because the exhaust would get that bad. I've switched lanes on the highway because a diesel spewing truck in front of me was filling the car with noxious gas.
When ever you see a big deisel spewing thick black smoke think this: It's happening one million times at this very moment. Every second, every day, around the clock without interuption. Where do you think all this exhaust goes. You've experienced Smog? You don't live under a rock? The glaciers are melting right? You've seen what's going on in China?
What rational person would think this daily deluge of pollution, on this massive scale has no detrimental effect? A "few SUV's" indeed.
Your not a scientist, but you play one on TV.

I think for myself. I don't let PRfirms, corporate media, politicians and consultants er scientists do my thinking.
Gobal warming equals WMD's.
lies

mememine69 wrote:

<quoted text>
I think for myself. I don't let PRfirms, corporate media, politicians and consultants er scientists do my thinking.
Gobal warming equals WMD's.
lies

Interesting.

Since you've just admitted you don't get your information from practically anywhere, then where DO you get your information ??

PS: Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons are NOT a reliable source of information.

thomas wrote:

<quoted text>
Glaciers, smog, rising temperatures, millions of barrels of oil being burned yearly, documentation of global dimming from a gazillion particles in the air, high levels of mercury in the fish so bad you can't eat it. That's just off the top of my head, why do you ask?

Global dimming? Can you give more details on this?

Mercury in fish is not tied to global warming. If you have found a link, could you disclose it?

Millions of barrels of oil are burned daily.

Glaciers come and go. Always have, always will.

The only place you have seen evidence of increasing temperatures that are unprecedented is on a constructed anomaly chart.

Here is a web site that will show you temperatures from all over the world. These a real temperatures. If the real temperature is not available then a temperature is not shown. No one made any thing up. You will notice, some places have gone up, some down. Each reference will show you the actual data. Click on several. The charts will vary as to the length of time. Some are very long, some only 30 years.

http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/Calen3/ghosts3.h...

McBushNOT wrote:

<quoted text>
Interesting.
Since you've just admitted you don't get your information from practically anywhere, then where DO you get your information ??
PS: Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons are NOT a reliable source of information.

So glad you asked.
First, the "information" you speak of is your dogma. Poltical dogam disquised as science.
And, since the theory is 25 years old, time's up pal.
Don't forget that La Nina (your dogma that your gloabl warmers cherry pick) is now stonger than this myth called glowBULL Warm-mongering.
Get a ahead of the curve because history is laughing already.

JRS wrote:

<quoted text>
Babbling lefty laundry list that has nothing to do with the AGW claims. Which just proves that the "AGW crisis" is just a smoke screen catch all for the lefty agenda.
"No matter if the science is all phony, there [are] collateral environmental benefits...climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
Christine Stewart, Canadian Environment Minister, Calgary Herald, December 14, 1998
http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/esahi...
Timothy Wirth, President Clinton's Assistant Secretary of State for Global Affairs:
"We've got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing, in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."
http://www.nationalcenter.org/dos7130.htm

I gave documented global warming fact, and you cite political opinion? You've got to do better to convince the facts. Nice try though.

Fun Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
Global dimming? Can you give more details on this?
Mercury in fish is not tied to global warming. If you have found a link, could you disclose it?
Millions of barrels of oil are burned daily.
Glaciers come and go. Always have, always will.
The only place you have seen evidence of increasing temperatures that are unprecedented is on a constructed anomaly chart.
Here is a web site that will show you temperatures from all over the world. These a real temperatures. If the real temperature is not available then a temperature is not shown. No one made any thing up. You will notice, some places have gone up, some down. Each reference will show you the actual data. Click on several. The charts will vary as to the length of time. Some are very long, some only 30 years.
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/Calen3/ghosts3.h...

Global dimming, can't give you sources except a PBS documentary on it. Three seperate scientist notice unknown to each other in Israel, Asia, and California. They notice at about the same time, less sunlight reaching ground. Analysis reveals trapped particles in high atmosphere. These gazillions of particles are blocking light, thus masking what would be even higher temps. I went into great detail on this but there must be a word limit on here and it disappeared.

Mercury in our fish is a direct result of pollution. If Giant Tuna in the middle of the Pacific have high levels than its due to air pollution and ground pollution. The same pollution causing global warming.

"Glaciers come and go"? What is that? That's funny since ice ages come from mass extinctions due to a cataclysmic event. Like a giant asteroid crashing into us.

Yes, millions of gallons of oil burned daily. Thanks for correcting me. Where does all that burn off go? A massive scale of pollution that has got our attention big time.

Global warming is a sum of all parts temperature speaking. Of course fluctuations are eminent. That doesn't prove anything. Global warming is big picture. Africa, The South and North Pole is where the most damage is now. It'll be your turn soon enough.

Ice ages are the result of the earth's orbit around the sun. The milankovich cycles. Earth's orbit is ellipitical but it changes from nearly circular to more elongated over a period of approx. 100,000 years.

Here's an ice core study that will show you the last four glacial periods.

http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionar...

Fun Facts wrote:

Ice ages are the result of the earth's orbit around the sun. The milankovich cycles. Earth's orbit is ellipitical but it changes from nearly circular to more elongated over a period of approx. 100,000 years.
Here's an ice core study that will show you the last four glacial periods.
http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionar...

Ok, I checked out your site. Pretty impressive. Lotsa data and references. In fact it was all data and reference. I drifted off after "it's the longest ice core..." So your going to put all this data together for us, right? 420,000 years is all you get. Cycles right? Repeating ice ages? Please melt this down for me.

McBushNOT wrote:

<quoted text>
Interesting.
Since you've just admitted you don't get your information from practically anywhere, then where DO you get your information ??
PS: Sponge Bob Square Pants cartoons are NOT a reliable source of information.

Information! Since global warming doesn't exist, it's only YOUR dogma.
The theory is 25 years old now. Crisis, what crisis?
Since La Nina is delaying your little helpless global warming, we can relax because if a natural force is stronger than the so called man made global warming force........well do I have to draw you a picture.
Preserve our environment, not save it from a myth.
Global warming equals WMD's. Lies and a liberal wet dream.
You can stop scaring the crap out of our kids now.

thomas wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok, I checked out your site. Pretty impressive. Lotsa data and references. In fact it was all data and reference. I drifted off after "it's the longest ice core..." So your going to put all this data together for us, right? 420,000 years is all you get. Cycles right? Repeating ice ages? Please melt this down for me.

First there are the milankovich cycles. There are three parts that are called the orbital mechanics.

Earth's orbit is ellipitical. This is thought to be caused by the varying levels of gravitational forces that exist within our solar system. The sun is the primary source but jupiter's gravity also plays a part. Over approx 100,000 years the earth is sometimes closer to the sun than others.

Then there is the tilt. The earth has an axis that is not constant. The tilt of the axis can vary from 21.5 degrees to 24.5 degrees. Currently our tilt is 23.5 degrees.

The "warmest" tilt, when our northern hemisphere where the land masses are is closest to the sun, is 24.5. So at 23.5 tilt we are still in a "warm" tilt. This cycle changes over a 41,000 year cycle. There is no "requirement" that the earth run the entire cycle. It doesn't go from 21.5 all the way to 24.5 and back again. It can, but it can also stop and reverse course at any point. Why, we don't know.

Then there is the wobble. If you have ever seen a toy top spin you know that as it slows it wobbles, so does the earth. The wobble has a cycle that is between 19,000 and 21,000 in duration. Within the 19,000 years the earth will have four separate wobble positions.

Currently the northern hemisphere is closest to the sun in January. Since the northern hemisphere contains the most land mass this position creates the mildest/most favorable climate conditions. I say mild because the earth in recent history has been mostly cold. In this position the winters are not as cold and the summers are not as warm as they could be if the wobble were at another position. When we are closest to the sun in the summer, the winters are colder and the summers warmer. We have been fortunate that our fall and winter positioning has happened at the time of the interglacial, making this one of the earth's most favorable climates for plant and animal life.

Today our north star is polaris, 5000 years ago when the northern hemisphere was closest to the sun in the fall, the north star was vega.

If you can imagine that various postions the earth takes in relation to the sun you can see how the orbital mechanics play a significant role in the climate.

Before you can compare today to any yesterday, you must determine the time in the past when the earth was in a similar position to what it is today. A different position will produce a different climate.