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the golden eel
Minneapolis, MN
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Its kind of sad, really. Trying to rationalize killing an unborn child by throwing out some percentages.
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Not Sure
United States
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jcf817 wrote: <quoted text>
You missed my point. There is no such thing as pro-death people when it comes to the abortion issue. Well...except for maybe the conservative extremists who have bombed abortion clinics...but I digress. Just because you paint pro-CHOICEers as pro-DEATH doesn't make it so.
Also...it's a rare pro-LIFEer who is also against the death penalty. So...which is it? Pro-LIFE or not? Really? Oh my, an expert. Hate to disappoint you but there are a number of individuals who strongly Pro-Life and do not support the death penalty. And you know what else, there are even Pro-Lifers who are not christians.
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paul
Minneapolis, MN
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I'm looking forward to the "Rapture" when all the religious nuts dsappear and leave us alone :-)
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sandra
Victoria, MN
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Count me has a woman who has a child and is pro choice. I have also had an abortion 6 years ago. I am very thankful I was not forced to continue a pregnancy I did not want. And has you all are going to say I killed my baby just know I dont care what you think. I did not and do not want another child. And if I get pregnant again (even though I had my tubes tied) I would have another abortion and not think twice about it. If it is happening inside my body it's really none of your business. And if your now going to say it has its own body or something like that YOUR AN IDIOT. Come on, I mean really. I control the inside of my own body. Wouldn't you want control with whats going on in your body? I would die for that. I would rather be dead then have you people tell me I have to carry a pregnancy to term.
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Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Comments: 681
St Paul
ISP:
Minneapolis, MN
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jcf817 wrote: <quoted text>
Did you bother to even listen to his entire answer...or are you happy to take Fox "News" and Rush Limbergher at their word? Um, no. I take no one at their word without a great deal of invested time and trust. Rush and Fox? NBC, the pioneer press, ect. ect. I trust none of them without pause at a minimum. No, my statements are my own. They are what I believe after listening to and learning all I can from every source that I come across through time. I actively formulate and weigh all of my own decisions and thoughts to the very best of my ability. So again. The answer to your question is "no". Why is it that when you come across someone who disagree's with you, you assume they somehow cannot think for themselves? While on many issues I find myself in agreement with rush and FOX I also find myself in agreement with NBC and WCCO at times as well. I never claim to be "right" unless I am speaking in relation to a provable fact. Otherwise my posts are MY opinion open to debate and even open to the possability of changing my mind from time to time. But thanks for demonstrating your own irrelevance by attacking some false assumption about my views rather then the view itself. Very intelligent. You and Major make a very cute couple.
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equidem
Saint Paul, MN
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sandra wrote: Count me has a woman who has a child and is pro choice. I have also had an abortion 6 years ago. I am very thankful I was not forced to continue a pregnancy I did not want.
And has you all are going to say I killed my baby just know I dont care what you think. I did not and do not want another child. And if I get pregnant again (even though I had my tubes tied) I would have another abortion and not think twice about it.
If it is happening inside my body it's really none of your business. And if your now going to say it has its own body or something like that YOUR AN IDIOT.
Come on, I mean really. I control the inside of my own body. Wouldn't you want control with whats going on in your body? I would die for that. I would rather be dead then have you people tell me I have to carry a pregnancy to term. Wow you're proud of your abortion. Well you clearly win the discussion points here especially with stellar logic like this gem "And if your now going to say it has its own body or something like that YOUR AN IDIOT." Your argument is an example of invincible ignorance. You win; abort freely.
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Capt Crunch
Sun City West, AZ
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Judged:
1
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sandra wrote: Count me has a woman who has a child and is pro choice. I have also had an abortion 6 years ago. I am very thankful I was not forced to continue a pregnancy I did not want.
And has you all are going to say I killed my baby just know I dont care what you think. I did not and do not want another child. And if I get pregnant again (even though I had my tubes tied) I would have another abortion and not think twice about it.
If it is happening inside my body it's really none of your business. And if your now going to say it has its own body or something like that YOUR AN IDIOT.
Come on, I mean really. I control the inside of my own body. Wouldn't you want control with whats going on in your body? I would die for that. I would rather be dead then have you people tell me I have to carry a pregnancy to term. Your mother had the same options. Fortunately for you she chose life.
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Jabber
Stacy, MN
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If you are pro life , and you support the death penalty are you going to He** just like the pro choice people?
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The Original Kacy
Minneapolis, MN
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Judged:
1
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Ted wrote: <quoted text>
It is obvious that you and others like Kacy have no soul. Abortion is murder, someday you will meet your maker and pay for you sin. Hahahaha - why thank you, sir. Did God appoint you his personal spokesperson, or how exactly do you know that I am going to "pay for my sin"? Also, if you read the only post I made on this topic, I simply said that abortion is an issue used to divide the masses. I didn't say anything about being pro-choice or pro-life or whatever, so thanks for: a.)making an assumption about me; b.) claiming to speak for God; and c.) telling me I will "pay for my sin." Hahahahaha - that's just great!
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Wtf
Saint Cloud, MN
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Judged:
1
1
Let's go a protesting!!!!!!! Who's with me? First stop, Planned Parenthood, next stop all the fertility clinics in the metro, last stop any company doing embryonic stem cell research. Oh, and if you want to protest one, you gotta get them all. No jumping off the bandwagon early.
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The Original Kacy
Minneapolis, MN
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Judged:
1
1
Patricia Gould wrote: City woman, Pro-choice moms, now there's an oxymoron. Now, the rest of your post, excluding the statement about your mother, is not funny.
Being pro-choice means that you are pro-death. Killing should never have been allowed to be called a choice. No one, woman or man, has the right to take another's life. If a woman did not want to get pregnant, she should not have done what it takes to become pregnant, and you know what I mean. I think you will now answer what about rape, and so I will answer that ahead of time which answer is that trauma on a baby cannot answer or heal the trauma of the rape victim.
Now, if a woman wants to choose to put up her baby for adoption, that is certainly her choice. A pregnant woman's only choice should be if she wants to keep her baby or put her baby up for adoption. Mother's who had contemplated adoption, after carrying their baby full term, have decided to keep their sweet, little baby afterall.
By your statement, "And frankly, I'd hope that more women would avoid getting pregnant in the first place..." So, who is telling who what they may and may not do? You are!
It is everyone's responsibility to protect unborn citizens. Alright, I'll bite... because you are the most annoying person on this entire forum. I am pro-choice. I have never had an abortion, never considered having an abortion, nor have I ever counseled anyone to have an abortion. Nevertheless, I am pro-choice and I am a mother of two amazing children. I have two very dear friends who work in the healthcare industry, delivering babies every day, and guess what? They are pro-choice! So, these two women who bring several babies into the world on a daily basis are "pro-death", according to you? You are a manipulative twit and you make me ill.
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The Original Kacy
Minneapolis, MN
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Judged:
1
1
Oh, and my friends.... the two who deliver babies.... they are mothers as well. Nope, they CHOSE not to abort either.... can you believe it???
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mak
Halifax, Canada
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I am a sinful supporter of the pro life movement. While I oppose Roe vs Wade and hope that it is over-turned, I still have some concerns about the problems that will surely come if(when?) that good day comes. Will we be willing to spend billions to care for the millions of children that will be saved? Will we willing to spend more billions to supply education in family planning and the wide distribution of free birth control devices to prevent unwanted pregnancies? It troubles me that so many of those that oppose abortion also oppose any thing that threatens to raise taxes.
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jcf817
Saint Paul, MN
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Super Wayne wrote: "Above my pay grade"
What a worthless pile of ..........
People are going to vote for a man who cant or wont take a stand on an issue? A man who all out avoids the question as he still holds hope that maybe pro-life people will forget that he ducked the question?
This man is attempting to appeal to everyone and he wont take a hard stance on much of anything as he flops left and right on issue after issue and completely avoids answering those pesky "hard" questions entirely.
What a fraud. This is why you're a shill. You took one line and based your opinion on that. Here is the text of Obama's response:(sorry for the all-caps) Q. NOW, LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE. YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW? A. WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY, YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. BUT LET ME JUST SPEAK MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE ISSUE OF ABORTION BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THE COUNTRY WRESTLES WITH. ONE THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THERE IS A MORAL AND ETHICAL CONTENT TO THIS ISSUE. SO I THINK THAT ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO DENY THE MORAL DIFFICULTIES AND GRAVITY OF THE ABORTION ISSUE I THINK IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. SO THAT WOULD BE POINT NUMBER ONE. BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, I AM PRO-CHOICE. I BELIEVE IN ROE V. WADE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION NOT BECAUSE I'M PRO ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY I DON'T THINK WOMEN MAKE THESE DECISIONS CASUALLY. THEY WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS IN PROFOUND WAYS. IN CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PASTORS OR SPOUSES OR THEIR DOCTORS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO FOR ME, THE GOAL RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE -- AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND AND BY THE WAY I HAVE NOW INSERTED THIS INTO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM IS HOW DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE'VE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO IS OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, ABORTIONS HAVE NOT GONE DOWN. Q. HAVE YOU EVER VOTED TO LIMIT OR REDUCE ABORTIONS? A. I AM IN FAVOR, FOR EXAMPLE, OF LIMITS ON LATE TERM ABORTIONS IF THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THE MOTHER'S HEALTH. NOW FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THOSE WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE PRO LIFE, I THINK THEY WOULD CONSIDER THAT INADEQUATE. AND I RESPECT THEIR VIEWS. I MEAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID IS THAT ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, THEN -- AND YOU ARE CONSISTENT IN THAT BELIEF, THEN I CAN'T ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A CORE ISSUE OF FAITH FOR YOU. WHAT I CAN DO IS SAY ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES SO THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE REDUCING THE SENSE THAT WOMEN ARE SEEKING OUT ABORTIONS, AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT IS HOW DO WE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT ALLOW WOMEN TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP A CHILD. YOU KNOW, HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE SUPPORT SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE OPTIONS OF ADOPTION THAT ARE NECESSARY. THAT I THINK CAN MAKE A GENUINE DIFFERENCE.
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City woman
Saint Paul, MN
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mak wrote: I am a sinful supporter of the pro life movement. While I oppose Roe vs Wade and hope that it is over-turned, I still have some concerns about the problems that will surely come if(when?) that good day comes.
Will we be willing to spend billions to care for the millions of children that will be saved?
Will we willing to spend more billions to supply education in family planning and the wide distribution of free birth control devices to prevent unwanted pregnancies?
It troubles me that so many of those that oppose abortion also oppose any thing that threatens to raise taxes. You're one of the few pro-life people who's willing to admit that truth. I hear a lot of people saying that people should just 'keep their legs closed," and a lot more who complain about welfare. But few people admit that eliminating abortions doesn't mean that unwanted pregnancies will magically go away....it means that there will be a lot more babies in the world, many brought into the world by parents who can't or don't want to care for them. And those babies will have to be taken care of, paid for, raised, etc. Who will step up to the plate, and will the anti-tax crowd accept this responsibility?
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Not Sure
United States
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Judged:
1
City woman wrote: <quoted text>
You're one of the few pro-life people who's willing to admit that truth. I hear a lot of people saying that people should just 'keep their legs closed," and a lot more who complain about welfare. But few people admit that eliminating abortions doesn't mean that unwanted pregnancies will magically go away....it means that there will be a lot more babies in the world, many brought into the world by parents who can't or don't want to care for them. And those babies will have to be taken care of, paid for, raised, etc. Who will step up to the plate, and will the anti-tax crowd accept this responsibility? And so by allowing abortions to continue, we can reduce the number of people that would otherwise be receiving public assistance. And next the proposal you'd want to pitch to keep taxes down that we should elminate the sick, and hey, why not the elderly too. Gee I can almost feel the love.
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Consistent
Zimmerman, MN
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jcf817 wrote: <quoted text>
This is why you're a shill. You took one line and based your opinion on that.
Here is the text of Obama's response:(sorry for the all-caps)
Q. NOW, LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE.
YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?
A. WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY, YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. BUT LET ME JUST SPEAK MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE ISSUE OF ABORTION BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THE COUNTRY WRESTLES WITH.
ONE THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THERE IS A MORAL AND ETHICAL CONTENT TO THIS ISSUE. SO I THINK THAT ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO DENY THE MORAL DIFFICULTIES AND GRAVITY OF THE ABORTION ISSUE I THINK IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. SO THAT WOULD BE POINT NUMBER ONE.
BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, I AM PRO-CHOICE. I BELIEVE IN ROE V. WADE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION NOT BECAUSE I'M PRO ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY I DON'T THINK WOMEN MAKE THESE DECISIONS CASUALLY. THEY WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS IN PROFOUND WAYS. IN CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PASTORS OR SPOUSES OR THEIR DOCTORS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO FOR ME, THE
GOAL RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE -- AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND AND BY THE WAY I HAVE NOW INSERTED THIS INTO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM IS HOW DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE'VE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO IS OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, ABORTIONS HAVE NOT GONE DOWN.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER VOTED TO LIMIT OR REDUCE ABORTIONS?
A. I AM IN FAVOR, FOR EXAMPLE, OF LIMITS ON LATE TERM ABORTIONS IF THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THE MOTHER'S HEALTH. NOW FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THOSE WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE PRO LIFE, I THINK THEY WOULD CONSIDER THAT INADEQUATE. AND I RESPECT THEIR VIEWS. I MEAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID IS THAT ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, THEN -- AND YOU ARE CONSISTENT IN THAT BELIEF, THEN I CAN'T ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A CORE ISSUE OF FAITH FOR YOU. WHAT I CAN DO IS SAY ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES SO THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE REDUCING THE SENSE THAT WOMEN ARE SEEKING OUT ABORTIONS, AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT IS HOW DO WE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT ALLOW WOMEN TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP A CHILD. YOU KNOW, HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE SUPPORT SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE OPTIONS OF ADOPTION THAT ARE NECESSARY. THAT I THINK CAN MAKE A GENUINE DIFFERENCE. LOLOLOL.....Leftists!! You call him a shill, and then YOU proceed to reprint the Interview Question/Parsed Response? Who's the shill!!
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Consistent
Zimmerman, MN
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jcf817 wrote: <quoted text>
This is why you're a shill. You took one line and based your opinion on that.
Here is the text of Obama's response:(sorry for the all-caps)
Q. NOW, LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE.
YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?
A. WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY, YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. BUT LET ME JUST SPEAK MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE ISSUE OF ABORTION BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THE COUNTRY WRESTLES WITH.
ONE THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THERE IS A MORAL AND ETHICAL CONTENT TO THIS ISSUE. SO I THINK THAT ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO DENY THE MORAL DIFFICULTIES AND GRAVITY OF THE ABORTION ISSUE I THINK IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. SO THAT WOULD BE POINT NUMBER ONE.
BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, I AM PRO-CHOICE. I BELIEVE IN ROE V. WADE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION NOT BECAUSE I'M PRO ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY I DON'T THINK WOMEN MAKE THESE DECISIONS CASUALLY. THEY WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS IN PROFOUND WAYS. IN CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PASTORS OR SPOUSES OR THEIR DOCTORS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO FOR ME, THE
GOAL RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE -- AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND AND BY THE WAY I HAVE NOW INSERTED THIS INTO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM IS HOW DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE'VE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO IS OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, ABORTIONS HAVE NOT GONE DOWN.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER VOTED TO LIMIT OR REDUCE ABORTIONS?
A. I AM IN FAVOR, FOR EXAMPLE, OF LIMITS ON LATE TERM ABORTIONS IF THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THE MOTHER'S HEALTH. NOW FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THOSE WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE PRO LIFE, I THINK THEY WOULD CONSIDER THAT INADEQUATE. AND I RESPECT THEIR VIEWS. I MEAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID IS THAT ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, THEN -- AND YOU ARE CONSISTENT IN THAT BELIEF, THEN I CAN'T ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A CORE ISSUE OF FAITH FOR YOU. WHAT I CAN DO IS SAY ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES SO THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE REDUCING THE SENSE THAT WOMEN ARE SEEKING OUT ABORTIONS, AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT IS HOW DO WE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT ALLOW WOMEN TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP A CHILD. YOU KNOW, HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE SUPPORT SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE GIVEN THEM THE OPTIONS OF ADOPTION THAT ARE NECESSARY. THAT I THINK CAN MAKE A GENUINE DIFFERENCE. PS....I dont see the Obama, aaaha hummm wellll aaaa hhhuuum iiiiii .....in your copy of the Question?
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Wtf
Saint Cloud, MN
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Consistent, can I count on you to go a protesting with me? The more the merrier.
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City woman
Saint Paul, MN
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Not Sure wrote: <quoted text>
And so by allowing abortions to continue, we can reduce the number of people that would otherwise be receiving public assistance.
And next the proposal you'd want to pitch to keep taxes down that we should elminate the sick, and hey, why not the elderly too.
Gee I can almost feel the love. I don't recall saying that we should encourage abortion to keep welfare down. What I did say is that if you're going to encourage more (often poor) women to carry their pregnancies to term, the pro-lifers should step up to the plate and be willing to support them. And/or they should be more supportive of birth control, so that fewer unwanted pregnancies happen in the first place.
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Judge it!
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