Aussie restlessness echoes in U.S.

Gottaliv wrote:

MUQ: So MUQ, which 'evil path' do you choose to take when dealing with homosexuality?
Do you cut off the offending part?
Do you try to reverse that behaviour by religious teachings?
Do you kill them?
Do you stone them?
Is any of the above your solution?
If not, what IS the solution to this 'evil' behaviour in your country?

Homosexuality is a sexual perversion and is punishable with death. But you should produce four eyewitnesses who have seen that act with their own eyes. To get four eye witnesses for such acts is next to impossible. So practically very few are actually punished, but the fear of punishment keeps the evil to its lowest possible level.

If your nature has gone totally reverse, that you see Islam and Muslims as “Weeds”, then it seems your so called garden does not contain any “Flowers” at all.

In a way you are right, truth and falsehood cannot live together. The falsehood always tries to eliminate the truth. Can you tell me why the Jews tried to kill Jesus? They thought that Jesus and his followers were “Weed” that were trying to corrupt their “Garden”. I am not surprised if you find no problem with any other religion or people except Muslims. In a way it proves that only Muslims are on right path!!!.

How else could it be possible that believers of One God, Triune God, Millions of Gods and No god, could find that each of them is on right path!!!

Yes the God is slow in anger, He gives sufficient time for people to repent, but when it goes beyond the limit, His punishment is Swift and Painful. Just because God is slow in anger, should not mean that you are on correct path.

To: Madam Dee

Episode-13 “The mission to Taif”

Death of his uncle and physical abuses indicated that his mission has reached its zenith in Makkah and there were no signs of its significant growth in near future.

He looked outwards, approx 70 Km to east of Makkah, was the hill city of Taif. It is situated at a height of 7500 to 8500 feet and it well known for its cold climate, gardens and good quality fruits. Wealthy Makkan used Taif as their Hill Resort.

THAQEEF tribe lived there and three chiefs (which were brothers) controlled the city. Prophet visited them and conveyed his message, requesting them to accept Islam and allow Taif as base for its propagation.

The replies were harshest he had received so far. One brother refused point blank to talk to him; another ridiculed him and said that God could not find anyone except him as messenger. Third one said “If you speak truth, then it is very hard to accept and if you lie, then I don’t want to talk to a liar”.

They forbade prophet to even speak to people of Taif and commanded him to leave their city. Not satisfied; they even instigated children and hooligan of city to ridicule him and throw stones at him.

Dejected and feet dripping with blood, prophet took refuge in a near by garden. After brief rest he appealed to his only support, Almighty God. This prayer is one of the most eloquent and heart rendering in Arabic Literature. Prophet laid bare his present condition before God and asked for His Grace and Mercy.

Such prayers from prophets never go in vain; an angel appeared and told prophet that God Has Seen what passed between you and your people. Ask, and I will close these mountain on them and all will perish. Ever merciful, Prophet replied “I hope their children will believe and be saved”

Prophet returned from Taif, mission ending in total failure, but from that day, God showered special mercies on him and the future took a definite turn for the better. While returning from Taif a party of Jinn heard his recitation of Quran and believed in him.

Prophet used to refer to “Day of Taif” as the hardest day of his prophetic mission. Even harder than when he was outnumbered in a battlefield.

Please put your comment on this episode

MUQ wrote:

So I request you to be reasonable and control both your tone and content, from going towards extremes.

i think you should take your own advice.

Also it seems to me that you bring science as your proof that islam is thebest when it agrees with you and say it's bad when it disagrees with you. it can only be one or the other.

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text>
Homosexuality is a sexual perversion and is punishable with death. But you should produce four eyewitnesses who have seen that act with their own eyes. To get four eye witnesses for such acts is next to impossible. So practically very few are actually punished, but the fear of punishment keeps the evil to its lowest possible level.
If your nature has gone totally reverse, that you see Islam and Muslims as “Weeds”, then it seems your so called garden does not contain any “Flowers” at all.
In a way you are right, truth and falsehood cannot live together. The falsehood always tries to eliminate the truth. Can you tell me why the Jews tried to kill Jesus? They thought that Jesus and his followers were “Weed” that were trying to corrupt their “Garden”. I am not surprised if you find no problem with any other religion or people except Muslims. In a way it proves that only Muslims are on right path!!!.
How else could it be possible that believers of One God, Triune God, Millions of Gods and No god, could find that each of them is on right path!!!
Yes the God is slow in anger, He gives sufficient time for people to repent, but when it goes beyond the limit, His punishment is Swift and Painful. Just because God is slow in anger, should not mean that you are on correct path.

ahh... you critises us for the same stuff you do. I thought islam was supposed to be a tolerant religion? or does it pick and choose who it wants to tolerate?

MUQ wrote:

"Who told you Islam is and forever will be a Mid-eastern religion? That shows your ignorance about Islam. More than 80 % Muslims are Non-Arabs. Number of Muslims in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh itself is more that double of all Arab Muslims. Largest Muslim country is Indonesia, which is Non Arab. There is no country in the world where sizable numbers of Muslims are not living."

Well Muslim MAJORITY nations. India is not a Muslim majority nation, nor does it enforce Islamic law. And look at it, it is developing so fast that the credit crisis doesn't affect it! You also state the largest muslim majority nation is Indonesia which is also non- arab, but you do not take into account that Indonesia is not an Islamic republic and does not accept Islamic law, to which they describe them also to be barbaric and discriminatiory against people who have not committed wrong. Also i do remind you, Christianity is far more diverse that what you have stated, and encompasses more nations and ethnicities Islam could ever have. oh by the way you also say that why do us westerners have people who convert to islam? Well they aren't in the majority are they? they number about maybe 2,000 in australia alone, but also we have the freedom to change religion, and yet 20,750,000 still choose to remain non- religious, non- Islamic or Christian.

"However it is your media, which gives Islam and Muslims an Arabic and ethnic bias."

and your media does not give you biased and bigot statements about non- islamic countries? You know i don't dislike any muslim personally, nor do i hate any arabs. I have no reason to hate arabs or muslims. But however maybe you should seriously look at yourself before you critisies other and call their religion stupid and expect them to agree with you because remember what Jesus himself said "do not condemn, and you shall not be condemned"

JepJep wrote:

<quoted text>
"Who told you Islam is and forever will be a Mid-eastern religion? That shows your ignorance about Islam. More than 80 % Muslims are Non-Arabs. Number of Muslims in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh itself is more that double of all Arab Muslims. Largest Muslim country is Indonesia, which is Non Arab. There is no country in the world where sizable numbers of Muslims are not living."
Well Muslim MAJORITY nations. India is not a Muslim majority nation, nor does it enforce Islamic law. And look at it, it is developing so fast that the credit crisis doesn't affect it! You also state the largest muslim majority nation is Indonesia which is also non- arab, but you do not take into account that Indonesia is not an Islamic republic and does not accept Islamic law, to which they describe them also to be barbaric and discriminatiory against people who have not committed wrong. Also i do remind you, Christianity is far more diverse that what you have stated, and encompasses more nations and ethnicities Islam could ever have. oh by the way you also say that why do us westerners have people who convert to islam? Well they aren't in the majority are they? they number about maybe 2,000 in australia alone, but also we have the freedom to change religion, and yet 20,750,000 still choose to remain non- religious, non- Islamic or Christian.
"However it is your media, which gives Islam and Muslims an Arabic and ethnic bias."
and your media does not give you biased and bigot statements about non- islamic countries? You know i don't dislike any muslim personally, nor do i hate any arabs. I have no reason to hate arabs or muslims. But however maybe you should seriously look at yourself before you critisies other and call their religion stupid and expect them to agree with you because remember what Jesus himself said "do not condemn, and you shall not be condemned"

When we asked Moiz about jihadis and Muslim terrorists who kill in the name of Islam, he replied that they were not true Muslims because Islam is a religion of peace.

I think we've all seen videos of various Muslim shieks and clerics ranting and raving about killing 'crusaders' and other nonsense. Are they not true Muslims? They hold very high positions in the Muslim world, how can they be mistaken in their interpretations of the Quran? Don't they intepret the Quran for others?

Saudi school textbooks repeat the refrain, are the authors and teachers not true Muslims?

Have they all misinterpreted the Quran?

MUQ wrote:

<quoted text> I am not surprised if you find no problem with any other religion or people except Muslims. In a way it proves that only Muslims are on right path!!!.

MUQ - you've got it wrong. I don't have a problem with any race or any religion or people as a whole, and that includes Muslims from any country. The problem I have, is when any peoples come to MY country, tell us they are dissatisfied with the way WE live, try to change OUR values and codes of living, demand that WE change as in their opinion we are doing it all wrong, and look down their noses at US and type cast US as Infidels.

That is the reality of Muslims migrating {invading.?} other countries. No others do it any where near as efficiently. Hate breeds hate, and they seem to bring it with them. I am generalising here, as I know several Muslims I consider good friends. But they would probably be the type you would call not 'true' Muslims.

Two questions I would like answers to please.

Why DO Muslims migrate to countries so opposite in nearly everything to their own?

And, what is your reason/purpose for spending so many many internet hours posting in this forum?

Sheik Habibhoudini:“I have complete faith that Islam will invade Europe and America, because Islam has logic and a mission. The Europeans and the Americans will come into the bosom of Islam out of conviction.”...

INVADE...???

"out of conviction"...??? Shouldn't that be terrorism???

Gottaliv wrote:

Sheik Habibhoudini:“I have complete faith that Islam will invade Europe and America, because Islam has logic and a mission. The Europeans and the Americans will come into the bosom of Islam out of conviction.”...
INVADE...???
"out of conviction"...??? Shouldn't that be terrorism???

You see that Islam can not put the shoe on the other foot.
When we invade their country they rightfully can wage war against us.
When they invade us ,we have will to accept Islam or war will be waged against us.

Islamic logic

dee wrote:

<quoted text>
When we asked Moiz about jihadis and Muslim terrorists who kill in the name of Islam, he replied that they were not true Muslims because Islam is a religion of peace.
I think we've all seen videos of various Muslim shieks and clerics ranting and raving about killing 'crusaders' and other nonsense. Are they not true Muslims? They hold very high positions in the Muslim world, how can they be mistaken in their interpretations of the Quran? Don't they intepret the Quran for others?
Saudi school textbooks repeat the refrain, are the authors and teachers not true Muslims?
Have they all misinterpreted the Quran?

No, they have been given the Muslim mantra to quote and I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslims have palnts on the internet to answer these questions. I believe Moiz and one other chick from Saudi Arabia a probably plants.

If you notice they continue to say the same thing over and over. It is memorex.

The Southern guys should invite their Muslim friends to a real southern "Pig Pickng".

dee wrote:

<quoted text>
When we asked Moiz about jihadis and Muslim terrorists who kill in the name of Islam, he replied that they were not true Muslims because Islam is a religion of peace.
I think we've all seen videos of various Muslim shieks and clerics ranting and raving about killing 'crusaders' and other nonsense. Are they not true Muslims? They hold very high positions in the Muslim world, how can they be mistaken in their interpretations of the Quran? Don't they intepret the Quran for others?
Saudi school textbooks repeat the refrain, are the authors and teachers not true Muslims?
Have they all misinterpreted the Quran?

You only need to draw the paralell with the Christian world, and the many different versions of 'the one true way' to see that a multitude of interpretations and meanings can be gleaned from ancient texts.

ngali wrote:

<quoted text>
You only need to draw the paralell with the Christian world, and the many different versions of 'the one true way' to see that a multitude of interpretations and meanings can be gleaned from ancient texts.

Except that we don't have mainstream Christian leaders in Rome exhorting their flock to kill non-Christians. There are no Christians killing in the name of Christianity to my knowledge.

Re - interpretation - There are dozens of verses in the Quran about killing non-believers, they have been quoted many times. Moiz believes in Quranic law, he has told us - he believes that homosexuals and adulterers should be stoned, hanged or imprisoned, women should be treated as inferiors and that Islam 'supersedes' all other beliefs.

If he believes in all these things, logic dictates that he would also believe in killing in the name of Islam - ie jihad.

Fearless and Happy wrote:

<quoted text>
No, they have been given the Muslim mantra to quote and I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslims have palnts on the internet to answer these questions. I believe Moiz and one other chick from Saudi Arabia a probably plants.
If you notice they continue to say the same thing over and over. It is memorex.

That's my conclusion too. There are Muslim sites all over the net promoting the 'Mohammed-is-in-the-Bible' propaganda and they use the same words and phrases over and over, and the same arguments.

Looks like a major recruiting drive is in progress - maybe all those Westerners converting to Islam isn't happening as anticipated.

dee wrote:

<quoted text>
When we asked Moiz about jihadis and Muslim terrorists who kill in the name of Islam, he replied that they were not true Muslims because Islam is a religion of peace.
I think we've all seen videos of various Muslim shieks and clerics ranting and raving about killing 'crusaders' and other nonsense. Are they not true Muslims? They hold very high positions in the Muslim world, how can they be mistaken in their interpretations of the Quran? Don't they intepret the Quran for others?
Saudi school textbooks repeat the refrain, are the authors and teachers not true Muslims?
Have they all misinterpreted the Quran?

well if islam is truly a peaceful religion which i also believe to some degree, then yes they have completely mis interpreted a religion for their own benefit. the only thing i can do is compare them to Jehovah's Witnesses to a certain degree.

ngali wrote:

<quoted text>
You only need to draw the paralell with the Christian world, and the many different versions of 'the one true way' to see that a multitude of interpretations and meanings can be gleaned from ancient texts.

well actally we have different christian faiths, but most teach the near exact thing and disagree in extremely minor things such as the way a church or chapel should be laid out. It is only very small and extremely minor 'churches' who display very different views from mainstream christianity.

dee wrote:

<quoted text>
Except that we don't have mainstream Christian leaders in Rome exhorting their flock to kill non-Christians. There are no Christians killing in the name of Christianity to my knowledge.
Re - interpretation - There are dozens of verses in the Quran about killing non-believers, they have been quoted many times. Moiz believes in Quranic law, he has told us - he believes that homosexuals and adulterers should be stoned, hanged or imprisoned, women should be treated as inferiors and that Islam 'supersedes' all other beliefs.
If he believes in all these things, logic dictates that he would also believe in killing in the name of Islam - ie jihad.

Very well said.

To: Mr. Jep-Jep

Any established laws of Islam will never be against Islam. This can be verified and proven, however in case of theories, they can be in favor or against Islam. We criticize those theories which are against Islam, and there is nothing wrong in that.

Tolerance does not mean that you agree with whatever other one is saying. Tolerance is to point out the correct way and then leave the choice to other. To agree that Falsehood is correct is not tolerance but Hypocrisy.

I said that Islam in not Mid Eastern religion. More Muslims live in Non Arab states than Mid East. I did not say that India is a Muslim state. I only said that number of Muslims living in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are more than double of All Muslims living in Arab States and that is correct.

I know 80 % of the world population is not Muslim. But majority and minority have nothing to do with truth. Muslims may be small in numbers in Australia, but they are growing there as in rest of the world. Islam is the fastest growing of all religions. That is not what I say, it is what your media says.

You are right that we also criticize western civilization, but if you look at these threads , you will find many more of you criticizing Islam and Muslims than Muslims criticizing the, And we only reply back, when your attacks become very unbearable.

To: Mr. Gottaliv

I think the problem which you have mentioned is very natural in any multi cultural society. Since it is a starting point, it looks very strange to you. In India where people of almost every religion live and interact this problem is not faced that much.

When people of different religions and cultures live together, and they are of sizable numbers, these issues do come up and they should be sorted out in a reasonable manners, instead of accusing them with in-tolerance and Anti Nationalism. In Islamic society Non Muslims are given permission to follow their own laws and customs for their religious and social spheres. Issues like, marriage, divorce, inheritance , adoption etc are decided by each community as per their own laws. This does not amount to any problem in the country.

In India, minorities follow their own Personal Laws and there is no problem. May be it is a new thing for your society, so you feel it strange.

I don’t know what type of Muslim friends you have, but if they seem to you Muslims by their names and during day to day affairs, there is no difference between them and others and they would be too shy to discuss religion with you or answer any of your queries, then they are “Typical Muslims” that majority of them are. You may interact with them for many years, without even once realizing that they are different from others.

Regarding your two questions:

Muslims migrate to other countries looking for greener postures (as every one else does) They feel that they will have a good living standard and will be free to live as per their religion.

My purpose of “Wasting” so many hours on Internet is to clarify Islamic position on various issues and doubts, to the best of my knowledge. It is duty of every Muslims to pass on any Islamic knowledge that he has. But he should do that in a civil manner and with wisdom and beautiful language. I try to do that to the best of my capabilities.

MUQ wrote:

To: Mr. Jep-Jep
Any established laws of Islam will never be against Islam. This can be verified and proven, however in case of theories, they can be in favor or against Islam. We criticize those theories which are against Islam, and there is nothing wrong in that.
Tolerance does not mean that you agree with whatever other one is saying. Tolerance is to point out the correct way and then leave the choice to other. To agree that Falsehood is correct is not tolerance but Hypocrisy.
I said that Islam in not Mid Eastern religion. More Muslims live in Non Arab states than Mid East. I did not say that India is a Muslim state. I only said that number of Muslims living in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are more than double of All Muslims living in Arab States and that is correct.
I know 80 % of the world population is not Muslim. But majority and minority have nothing to do with truth. Muslims may be small in numbers in Australia, but they are growing there as in rest of the world. Islam is the fastest growing of all religions. That is not what I say, it is what your media says.
You are right that we also criticize western civilization, but if you look at these threads , you will find many more of you criticizing Islam and Muslims than Muslims criticizing the, And we only reply back, when your attacks become very unbearable.

and you think your attacks don't become unbearable? Your naiveness goes from an opinion to just plain stupidness.

of course tolerance means that you don't have to agree to a person and who they are... but executing them? wow that shows tolerance all over.