FYI, to hear the actual US Supreme Court oral argument in DC v. Heller (no relation), click on the following link, then click on: A&C: DC v. Heller.

Link: http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp...

The constitution does not create rights but rather, it protects them in order to preserve the liberties of citizens from the state. The first clause creates a context, the imperative with which such a right should be protected. But the Supreme Court does not appear to interpret this as being the exclusive purpose. Further, without the right of the people to "keep" arms and use them, any notion of a State right to regulate a militia is nonsensical, as no individuals would be able to report for duty, much less be proficient with an arm. So the Bill of Rights clearly supports the right of the people - not the state to arm itself. The "collective Rights" view is pure fantasy.

Another vicious "liberal" communist attack of our freedom! They want to disarm us so they can do with population what they want like with cattle - specifically slaughter them. Communist - socialist "intellectual liberals" mass murderers always disarm population as the first step to brutal dictatorship!

Beagle wrote:

Another vicious "liberal" communist attack of our freedom! They want to disarm us so they can do with population what they want like with cattle - specifically slaughter them. Communist - socialist "intellectual liberals" mass murderers always disarm population as the first step to brutal dictatorship!

Beagle, you're incredible. Don't ever change.

That with rights come responsibilities is widely if not universally accepted. So what is the responsibility that comes with the right to keep and bear arms? It’s in the opening phrase of the Second Amendment. "Owning guns and complaining to your representatives being sufficient to the security of a free state,..." Right? Well that’s what most gun owners seem to think.

For any who wish to take seriously the responsibility that comes with the right to keep and bear arms, I’d like to invite you to explore today’s militia at http://www.awrm.org . We might surprise you, especially if you still believe what the mainstream media and groups like the SPLC say about us.

Peace.

Google "The unabridged Second Amemdment" for a language expert's view of the construction.

Quotes of Gun Control
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
- Hitler

Gun Control Quotes
"We must get rid of all the guns."
- Sarah Brady, Phil Donahue Show, 1994

Quotes of Gun Control
"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."
- U.S. Sen. Joseph Biden

Quotes of Gun Control
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."
- Samuel Adams

Quotes of Gun Control
"My view of guns is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned."
- Deborah Prothrow-Stith

NOTE:: Hey, Deb, we disagree, so go sit down. People want to own guns to keep safe from elitist NWO types like yourself.

Quotes of Gun Control
"[The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: a habitual disuse of physical forces totally destroys the moral [force]; and men lose at once the power of protecting themselves, and of discerning the cause of their oppression."
- Joel Barlow

Quotes of Gun Control
"...It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control...The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them."
- Samuel Adams

Gun Control Quotes
" I'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years. The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition -- except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal."
- Nelson T.`Pete' Shields, Chairman, HCI

Quotes of Gun Control
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they have resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress."
- Frederick Douglas

Quotes of Gun Control
"It is reported that in some parts of this State (South Carolina), armed parties are, without proper authority, engaged in seizing all fire-arms found in the hands of the freedmen. Such conduct is in clear and direct violation of their personal rights as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, which declares that ‘the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed’."
- Union General Rufus Saxton reporting to the U.S.Congress circa 1870

Quotes of Gun Control
"Ban the damn things (guns). Ban them all. You want protection? Get a dog."
- Molly Ivins, columnist, 7/19/94

NOTE:: We’re sorry, but that’s close to the dumbest quote we’ve ever heard.

Quotes of Gun Control
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

<<For any who wish to take seriously the responsibility that comes with the right to keep and bear arms, I’d like to invite you to explore today’s militia at http://www.awrm.org . We might surprise you, especially if you still believe what the mainstream media and groups like the SPLC say about us.

Peace. >>
No "peace" with you! Only fight!!! Socialist "liberal" lunatics are the worst enemies of mankind!!! They never stop trying to force us to surrender on all fronts!.

Beagle wrote:

<<For any who wish to take seriously the responsibility that comes with the right to keep and bear arms, I’d like to invite you to explore today’s militia at http://www.awrm.org . We might surprise you, especially if you still believe what the mainstream media and groups like the SPLC say about us.
Peace. >>
No "peace" with you! Only fight!!! Socialist "liberal" lunatics are the worst enemies of mankind!!! They never stop trying to force us to surrender on all fronts!.

Beagle you really have gone over the deep end.

You let an english teacher parse the ammendment for you and got a "collective right" interpretation. What a surprise! Aren't most educators in the USA self avowed liberals and therefore probably predisposed against the "individual right" view? Why didn't you just give us Sen. Dianne Feinstein's view, "Mr. & Mrs. America, turn them all in!", and have done with it.

Jim wrote:

<quoted text>
Beagle you really have gone over the deep end.

You comments are the best pieces of information I ever seen! Keep posting your brilliant ideas - you can not stop genius from expressing himself!

It seems to me quite evident that what the founding fathers were intent upon was the security of a free State. It further would seem that the point about a well regulated militia seems to be lacking in many interpretations. Even if one were to believe the concept that every able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 45 were apart of the militia, it does not respond to the point of being a "well regulated militia."

To help ensure our happiness and safety we must ban and seize all guns from private hands, and forbid NRA-based criticism towards people who are only trying to help. Searching the homes of all NRA members and seizing their guns will go a long way towards reducing crime.

If we need help doing this we can invite people like the Australians and Norweigans to help search through peoples homes.

If people don't like this then that proves they are on the side of the killers with the guns and should be put in jail along side all the gangbangers and other gun nuts. Subjecting them to torture will probably change their minds.

Guns owners are disrespectful of authority. A failure to rely on authorities is an invariable sign of improper and overly independent attitudes. Anything they say, write, or express should be held against them to prove their guilt.

No woman needs to protect herself from rape, assault or murder and should just leave crime prevention to the Police who are properly equipped to investigate following the crime's completion. Women using a gun in self-defense interferes with and makes the attempted crime a "non-event," which necessarily complicates the Police investigation.

Common sense requires only uniformed soldiers, police, and other agents of the state have access to firearms and no person should be able to challenge this. If they do they should be forced in court to admit to it and then fined a hundred million dollars for each time.

Those who claim that the 2nd amendment was given to because we might someday need guns to use against an oppressive government forget that Constitution has internal safeguards to protect our freedoms. Long live our Constitution!

Once you take firearms away from the public you turn them in subjects of the state. Keep them and you are still a citizen. I'll take the latter any day. Its just plain hard to believe the bad guys are going to turn in or register their firearms.

There's NO mistaking the grammer of the Amendment:

2nd Amendment Defined
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ndAmendmentdefine...
2nd Amendment History
http://gunshowonthenet.com/SecondAmend/TheCon...

Self-Defense and the United States Supreme Court:

Wiggins v. State Of Utah, Oct. Term, 1876.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/WigginsvStat...

Starr v. U.S., May 14, 1894.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/StarrvUS1894...

Thompson v. U.S., Dec. 3, 1894.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/ThompsonvUS1...

Allen v. U.S., April 8, 1895.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/AllenvUS1895...

Beard v. U.S., May 27, 1895.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/BeardvUS1895...

Allison v. U.S., Dec. 16, 1895.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/AllisonvUS18...

Smith v. U.S., March 2, 1896.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/SmithvUS1896...

Brown v. Walker, March 23, 1896.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/BrownVsWalke...

Stevenson v. U.S., April 13, 1896.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/StevensonvUS...

Wallace v. U.S., April 20, 1896.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/WallacevUS18...

Rowe v. U.S., Nov. 30, 1896.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/RowevUS1896....

Patsone v. Com. Of Pennsylvania, Jan. 19, 1914.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/PatsonevPenn...

BROWN v. UNITED STATES, "if a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not succeeded the bounds of lawful self defence", 256 U.S. 335 (1921).
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/BrownvUnited...

Missouri Pac. R. CO. v. David, U.S. Supreme Court, "He carried a pistol and sawed-off shot gun 'for the purpose of defending himself", Feb. 15, 1932
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/MissourivDav...

Adamson v. People Of State Of California, June 23, 1947.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/AdamsonvPeop...

"It was demanded by a great and overruling necessity...... This great law of necessity-of defence of self, of home, and of country-never was designed to be abrogated by any statute, or by any constitution."

- Mr.[(Formerly Major-General), Benjamin Franklin] Butler, ON THE SIDE OF THE UNITED STATES, EX PARTE MILLIGAN, U.S. Supreme Court, Dec. Term, 1866.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/ExParteMilli...

"Blackstone thought it was important. Blackstone thought it was important. He thought the right of self-defense was inherent, and the framers were devoted to Blackstone. Joseph Story, the first commentator on the Constitution and a member of this Court, thought it was a personal guarantee."

- Justice Scalia,[DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. Dick Anthony Heller] March 18, 2008.
http://gunshowonthenet.blogspot.com/2008/03/d...

The REAL ORIGINAL INTENT behind the Second Amendment:

The Shay's Insurrection, "These the Legislature could not infringe, without bringing upon themselves the detestation of mankind, and the frowns of Heaven", Jan. 12, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

Commonwealth of Massachusetts, "and shall obtain an order for the re-delivery of such arms", Feb. 16, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

Journals of the Continental Congress, "...impolitic and not to be reconciled with the genius of free Govts...", Feb. 19. 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

Letters of Delegates to Congress, "...An Act to disarm and Disfranchise for three years...", Feb. 27th, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

Letters of Delegates to Congress, "...this act has created more universal disgust than any other of Government...", March 6, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

Journals of the Continental Congress, "That a large body of armed insurgents, did make their appearance...", March 13, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, "a great proportion of the offenders chuse rather to risk the consequences of their treason, than submit to the conditions annexed to the amnesty", March 19, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

A Proclamation, "and of being again renewed to the arms of their country, and once more enjoying the rights of free citizens of the Commonwealth", June 15, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/AProclamat...

The Debates in the Federal Convention, "...let the citizens of Massachusetts be disarmed.... It would be regarded as a system of despotism.", Aug. 23, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, "A constitutional negative on the laws of the States seems equally necessary to secure individuals agst. encroachments on their rights", Oct. 24, 1787
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

"The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. I hope in God this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

- Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 13, 1787 letter to William S. Smith.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/...

That's RIGHT people, it was intended to SECURE the God-given, Natural, Inherent and Inalienable Right of those that HAD transgressed the law. ALL 'gun control laws' are REPUGNANT to the U.S. Constitution.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms..."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #28.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/FederalistPapers/F...

"The opinion of the Federalist has always been considered as of great authority. It is a complete commentary on our Constitution; and is appealed to by all parties in the questions to which that instrument has given birth. Its intrinsic merit entitles it to this high rank; and the part two of its authors performed in framing the constitution, put it very much in their power to explain the views with which it was framed..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court, Cohens v. Virginia (1821).
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/CohensvVirgi...

"Also, the conditions and circumstances of the period require a finding that while the stated purpose of the right to arms was to secure a well-regulated militia, the right to self-defense was assumed by the Framers."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court.[As quoted in Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846); State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 159 S.E.2d 1, 9 (1968).]
http://gunshowonthenet.com/AfterTheFact/NunnV...

"The defence of one’s self, justly called the primary law of nature, is not, nor can it be abrogated by any regulation of municipal law. This principle of defence is not confined merely to the person; it extends to the liberty and the property of a man: it is not confined merely to his own person; it extends to the persons of all those, to whom he bears a peculiar relation -- of his wife, of his parent, of his child, of his master, of his servant: nay, it extends to the person of every one, who is in danger; perhaps, to the liberty of every one, whose liberty is unjustly and forcibly attacked. It becomes humanity as well as justice."

- James Wilson,'Of the Natural Rights of Individuals', 1790-1792 (Signed the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution, Congressman, Delegate to the Constitutional Convention and U.S. Supreme Court Justice).
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/OftheNatur...

"The right of self-defence never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."

- President James Monroe, Nov. 16, 1818 message to the U.S. House and Senate.[Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, November 17th, 1818.]
http://gunshowonthenet.com/AfterTheFact/Senat...

"That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as liberty], on which all the good and evil of life depends; is clearly my opinion; yet Arms...should be the last resort."

- George Washington, 1789 letter to George Mason.[The True George Washington, 10th Ed. By Paul Leicester Ford.]
http://gunshowonthenet.com/SecondAmend/George...

ALL of those men were AT the debates/framing on the Bill of Rights and/or Constitution. They KNOW what they meant, and they MEANT what they said.

Awell regulated militia can only exist by consuming large quantities of ruffage. Militias not withstanding every law abiding American has an inherent right to own firearms and should also be able to carry concealed.
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Do not know who said that, but it makes sense to me. P.S. I am a Democrat and a bit liberal, but I am also a realist.

Where do I begin? A piece that is titled "Guns and grammar" that has such statements in it as "Did it created a collective right..." and "Did it created an individual right..."

Ignoring the grammatical problems here, the answer is "no, the Bill of Rights did not create any rights." The People had those rights already and the Bill of Rights merely enumerates some of them, and places certain limitations on government.

In 1A, it says "Congress shall make no law..." but does not limit, for example, your employers ability to limit your freeness of speech. But in 2A, it says "shall not be infringed." And the choice of a legal term, that is, the word "shall" was specifically selected, in preference to "will", "should", or something less precise.