Obama Pressures Stations to Drop NRA Spot

jack412 wrote:

but i was surprised to

THE GUNS FORUM

FORUM ISSUE: It's the guns stupid

POST# 15716

BY: The Bald Guy

Is this your first time dealing with Jack412?

If so, get used to him ignoring you when you prove his claims wrong.

In a week or two he'll be making the same, tired arguments you've already refuted time and time again....

He and I have also gotten into it over his misrepresentation of statistics repeatedly.

I'm not sure whether he is deliberately being misleading, or just simply doesn't know how to interpret statistics....

You'll notice that we provide facts, reason, and logic.

You'll also notice that, with the exception of the occasional cooked, falsified statistics, the gun ban advocates simply make fun of us and accuse us of being paranoid.

They can't actually support their arguments, and this seems to make them angry...

Unfortunately, that actually is somewhat effective at getting certain others to disregard what we have to say...

we went into iraq early ..did some serious soldiering shit
on the ' opening ' day of the war...
we were already at baghdad and had secured the highway and were waiting for you boys to arrive
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/03/30...

jack412 wrote:

we went into iraq early ..did some serious soldiering shit

THE GUNS FORUM

FORUM TOPIC: The truth on guns

POST# 59

BY: Jack Burton

Jack has posted many times that he is ONLY on the Guns Topix to "correct" statistics that he thinks are wrong about Australia crime and gun rates.

Now... there was nothing on this thread about Australia, stats, or Jack for that matter...

Yet... here he is...popping up on a thread that only has to do with America and the American right to keep and bear arms.

As you all read Jack's posts please keep the following in mind...

1) Jack is a liar

2) Jack has admitted in the past to looking for specifically bad information to post about America without regard as to whether or not it is true.

3) On dozens of other topics Jack has been proven over and over to be flat out factually WRONG about the stuff he posts.

4) If Jack doesn't like you he'll take something else another poster wrote and just accuse YOU of writing it without any shame on his part.

5) Jack tells us that he knows all about American gun laws but he thinks it is legal to kill a 15 yr old kid strolling onto your porch and picking up a newspaper.

6) Jack admitted that he doesn't actually bother to read posts before responding to them, but calls everyone answering his own posts "liars" anyway.

7) If you ask Jack an actual question he'll claim you're just a "playground bully" for putting him on the spot.

8) He is constantly trying to post bogus statistics about gun control but his math skills are so weak that he also constantly makes tremendous errors in his posting -- such as claiming that 100 feet and 100 yards were the same thing, that 10,000 and 100,000 equaled one another, and that 100 feet had 12,000 inches in it.

9) Jack declares all American-Topix gun owners are part of the KKK even though HE is the one who would deny every black person the right to carry a gun, and WE are the ones who believe that everyone should have the right to self defense with the most effective tool.

10) He's never been quite the same poster that he used to be since he was forced into admitting that if the Aussie legislature voted by a 51/49 percent margin that all Aussies had to turn ALL their guns into the government by three days he would be in line the next day with all his firearms to turn in like a good little boy.

11) Like the Ghurkas of old India, Jack has posted that every time a gun in drawn in self defense there MUST be blood flowing ~before~ it can be reholstered.

12) Jack insists that he is an expert on American government but he believes there is no difference in America between a "state" and a "federal park." They are one and the same. He also thinks that a "brief" before the Supreme Court is an "order" telling the Court how to rule in a case.

13) AND, my all time favorite: Jack has posted that he thinks armadillos are sea creatures who live underwater like lobsters.

In other words... don't take Jack seriously...we all consider him and his posts pretty funny jokes.

from the time article above

"The Americans couldn't comprehend we would have the ability to go into areas for protracted times to do our strategic roles,'' says former Afghanistan SAS taskforce intelligence chief Adam, who spoke exclusively to Time. "It's not what they do, because they think you go in for a day or two days, and do your business and get out,'' says Adam, who does not want his surname used for security reasons. "It wasn't until after certain high-tempo combat engagements during (Operation) Anaconda that we kind of worked out that we can do better than this.'' Similar distinctions were noted amongst the lower ranks. "They were body-builder types, full of steroids, some of them,'' says one SAS Afghan veteran. "They could only manage a couple of days. We could go for weeks at a time.''

jack412 wrote:

from the time article above

Post # 15967 {Its the guns stupid}

(Via The Bald Guy)

Speaking of spinning crap, I noticed you dropped your "gun ban lowered DC crime rates" argument like a bad habit.

You just seemed to completely ignore my last response. Which is something I would like to call everyone's attention to:
First Jack tries to claim that Washington DC has low crime rates thanks to the gun ban using crime stats from Washington state.

Then, when corrected, Jack continues to make his argument by only pulling out a section of the stats, without regard to all of the stats.

When I bring the rest of the stats into the discussion, showing a relationship between them, he accuses me of twisting the facts.

When asked why the gun ban would have taken approx 20 years to lower crime rates (they raised during that 20 year period) and contrasting DCs high crime rates to the very low crime rates of states with far less strict firearm laws, Jack drops the argument like a hot potato.

Now, if memory serves me, this is the second time I've had a conversation with Jack about DC.(Unfortunately for Jack, he apparently doesn't remember that I'm the one who blew his claims out of the water last time)

This is what he does. When his claims are shot down by irrefutable facts, he simply ignores the topic entirely.

After a while, perhaps in another thread, he will attempt to make the exact same argument again using the exact same refuted "evidence" to support his claims, even though he knows it to be false.

Jack has absolutely no interest in the truth.

He simply wants to win an argument.

As illustrated earlier with his misquoting Guns to try to prove his point, he has absolutely no reservations of twisting things to support his claims, all the while accusing us of twisting facts...

All of you who are not sure which side of the debate you are on should ask yourselves now: Do I really want to be on the side that must lie to prove their point?

Do I really want to be on th side that must resort to ridiculing the opposition in a futile effort to win an argument?

Do I really want to be on the side that has absolutely no regard for what is true?

And do you really like being lied to? I, for one, do not...

gunnuts are funny..heck i can copy paste too

Adam says the opportunities for the SAS to prove themselves were so uninspiring that the Australian contingent were packing up to leave just four months into their deployment in Afghanistan. But the U.S. forces finally appreciated their value and skills after an SAS patrol managed to scale a mountain overlooking the Shah-i-Kot "Valley of the kings" in East Afghanistan where they called in reports on a group of al-Qaeda fighters performing training exercises.

The Americans were in the planning stages of "Operation Anaconda," a mission to attack the enemy in Shah-i-Kot, says Adam, and "they didn't take kindly to our probing of that area - despite the fact it was an excellent ground recon effort.'' The Australians sought involvement in Anaconda but were given a lowly role as a blocking force. That perceived waste of their talent prompted a heated clash with one of the US commanders. A near shouting match erupted between a US special forces Major called Jimmy, who was acting second in command of the American special forces effort, and another Australian SAS officer over the issue.

jack412 wrote:

gunnuts are funny..heck i can

THE GUNS FORUM

FORUM ISSUE: Surprising fact: Half of gun death are suicides

POST# 1840

BY: Eddie1911

Jack tries to keep his "game face" on, but the reality is that Jack never turned his guns over to the authorities. They're buried out in the bush, guarded by Crocs. Jack disappeared for a while. Rumor has it that the Crocs turned on him. It's hard to fend off Crocs when your guns are 2 ft underground.

BTW: Jack has a tendency to pick and choose his stats. For example, he failed to provide these:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/buyback-h...
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/...

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
THE GUNS FORUM
FORUM ISSUE: Surprising fact: Half of gun death are suicides
POST# 1840
BY: Eddie1911
Jack tries to keep his "game face" on, but the reality is that Jack never turned his guns over to the authorities. They're buried out in the bush, guarded by Crocs. Jack disappeared for a while. Rumor has it that the Crocs turned on him. It's hard to fend off Crocs when your guns are 2 ft underground.
BTW: Jack has a tendency to pick and choose his stats. For example, he failed to provide these:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/buyback-h...
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/...

http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/84.html...

The risk of dying by gunshot has halved since Australian gun buy-back
Not only were Australia's post-Port Arthur gun laws followed by a decade in which the crime they were designed to reduce hasn't happened again,

*** 10 YEARS NO MASS MURDER,*** we were averaging one a year

but we also saw a life-saving bonus: the decline in overall gun deaths accelerated to twice the rate seen before the new gun laws
** firearm suicides and firearm homicides were reducing by 3 per cent (total gun death) each year until 1996,
these average rates of decline doubled to,* 6 per cent each year (total gun death),
· 7.5 per cent each year (gun homicide) following the introduction of new gun laws.

we had 40% less gun death since gun control
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tan...

jack412 wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/84.html...
The risk of dying by gunshot has halved since Australian gun buy-back
Not only were Australia's post-Port Arthur gun laws followed by a decade in which the crime they were designed to reduce hasn't happened again,
*** 10 YEARS NO MASS MURDER,*** we were averaging one a year
but we also saw a life-saving bonus: the decline in overall gun deaths accelerated to twice the rate seen before the new gun laws
** firearm suicides and firearm homicides were reducing by 3 per cent (total gun death) each year until 1996,
these average rates of decline doubled to,* 6 per cent each year (total gun death),
· 7.5 per cent each year (gun homicide) following the introduction of new gun laws.
we had 40% less gun death since gun control
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tan...

i see we are spouting the same old line, and hunt and pecking our stats.
taking guns from law abidding citizens
does not protect law abidding citizens
anyone with at least a 90 IQ can comprehend this simple fact.

oh i can not wait for the responses. testing testing

jack412 wrote:

BULLSHIT REMARKS

Via El politico:

Victims' group says NT violent crime increasing
The Victims of Crime support group in the Northern Territory has confirmed a marked increase in violent crime over the past year. Email. Victims group says Northern Territory violent crime increasing.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/01...

Police question resource management
He says the cuts are part of the reason for a 29 per cent increase in violent crime since the Bracks Government came to power. Mr Holding says most of the new officers perform frontline roles like crime scene and sex offence investigation.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2006/08/18...

The New South Wales Opposition says crime statistics released today showing an increase in violent crime are the result of the State Government not doing enough in the area of crime prevention. According to the Bureau of Crime Statistics there has been a significant increase in assaults in the last 15 years, with the number of sexual assaults doubling since 1990.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2006/02/01...

Violent crime in central Australia increases
The latest crime statistics for the Northern Territory show an increase in violent crime in central Australia. Email. Violent crime in central Australia increases.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2005/12/14...

Violent crime on the rise in Gippsland
The Member for Gippsland Province, Phillip Davis, says insufficient police resources in Gippsland has led to a jump in the region s violent crime statistics. Email. Violent crime on the rise in Gippsland.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2005/08/16...

Crime rates climbing, says expert
Judy Putt from the Australian Institute of Criminology says in the past decade the level of violent crime has fallen in the United States and Canada. But she says in Australia over the same period, there has been a steady increase in violent crime.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2004/11/24...

Greg, you will LOVE this. I crunched the numbers from the dingo humper Jack's posts and found the following:

The crime site JACK listed showed the the 2001 Australian gun deaths from all causes at 5083
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tan... (you have seen him list that site previously on many occasions)
The Australian Bureau of Statistics gives your 2001 population as 18,769,249
http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigatio...
Doesn't matter what population site you use, they all come up close to the same number
For a gun death rate of 27.082 per 100,000 IN Aussie SHEEPLAND

In 2001 the US had 29,573 gun deaths, all causes
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.h...

With a population of 285,102,075
www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/census.html
For a gun death rate of only 10.373 per 100,000

So APPLES TO APPLES as the dingo humper likes to say, Victims/Subjects/Citizens in Aussie Sheepland are 2.5 TIMES MORE likely to die by guns, EVEN AFTER THEIR GUN CONFISCATIONS!!

Obama Hussein and his thugs have to be recognized for what they are: neo-nazis.

The first condition for fighting an infection is to identify the agent.

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
THE GUNS FORUM
FORUM TOPIC: The truth on guns
POST# 59
BY: Jack Burton
Jack has posted many times that he is ONLY on the Guns Topix to "correct" statistics that he thinks are wrong about Australia crime and gun rates.
Now... there was nothing on this thread about Australia, stats, or Jack for that matter...
Yet... here he is...popping up on a thread that only has to do with America and the American right to keep and bear arms.
As you all read Jack's posts please keep the following in mind...
1) Jack is a liar
2) Jack has admitted in the past to looking for specifically bad information to post about America without regard as to whether or not it is true.
3) On dozens of other topics Jack has been proven over and over to be flat out factually WRONG about the stuff he posts.
4) If Jack doesn't like you he'll take something else another poster wrote and just accuse YOU of writing it without any shame on his part.
5) Jack tells us that he knows all about American gun laws but he thinks it is legal to kill a 15 yr old kid strolling onto your porch and picking up a newspaper.
6) Jack admitted that he doesn't actually bother to read posts before responding to them, but calls everyone answering his own posts "liars" anyway.
7) If you ask Jack an actual question he'll claim you're just a "playground bully" for putting him on the spot.
8) He is constantly trying to post bogus statistics about gun control but his math skills are so weak that he also constantly makes tremendous errors in his posting -- such as claiming that 100 feet and 100 yards were the same thing, that 10,000 and 100,000 equaled one another, and that 100 feet had 12,000 inches in it.
9) Jack declares all American-Topix gun owners are part of the KKK even though HE is the one who would deny every black person the right to carry a gun, and WE are the ones who believe that everyone should have the right to self defense with the most effective tool.
10) He's never been quite the same poster that he used to be since he was forced into admitting that if the Aussie legislature voted by a 51/49 percent margin that all Aussies had to turn ALL their guns into the government by three days he would be in line the next day with all his firearms to turn in like a good little boy.
11) Like the Ghurkas of old India, Jack has posted that every time a gun in drawn in self defense there MUST be blood flowing ~before~ it can be reholstered.
12) Jack insists that he is an expert on American government but he believes there is no difference in America between a "state" and a "federal park." They are one and the same. He also thinks that a "brief" before the Supreme Court is an "order" telling the Court how to rule in a case.
13) AND, my all time favorite: Jack has posted that he thinks armadillos are sea creatures who live underwater like lobsters.
In other words... don't take Jack seriously...we all consider him and his posts pretty funny jokes.

Maybe Jack doesn't Know Jack.

jack412 wrote:

we went into iraq early ..did some serious soldiering shit
on the ' opening ' day of the war...
we were already at baghdad and had secured the highway and were waiting for you boys to arrive
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003/03/30...

Wait a second, Jack, "WE" you have a mouse in your pocket? You did nothing at all. Do Not lie of such a thing. My sons went there and several times. Watch your step mister.

jack412 wrote:

The sudden stop was also a result of the four AIF (Australian Imperial Forces) divisions that were "rushed" down, thus doing what no other army had done and stopping the German advance in its tracks. During that time the first Australian division was hurriedly sent north again to stop the second German breakthrough.
ausiies were busy wernt they

Now tell us about SINGAPORE! And how a superior Australian and British force SURRENDERED to an inferior Japanese force....

jack412 wrote:

The sudden stop was also a result of the four AIF (Australian Imperial Forces) divisions that were "rushed" down, thus doing what no other army had done and stopping the German advance in its tracks. During that time the first Australian division was hurriedly sent north again to stop the second German breakthrough.
ausiies were busy wernt they

"Australia declared war on Germany on 3 September 1939 after the British ultimatum for Germany to withdraw from Poland expired. Australia's first shot of the war took place several hours later when a gun at Fort Queenscliff fired across the bows of an Australian ship which was attempting to leave Melbourne without the required clearances."

- Macintyre (1986). Page 325.

"Upon the request of the Australian Government, the bulk of the 9th Division was withdrawn from Tobruk in September and October 1941 and was replaced by the British 70th Division. The 2/13th Battalion was forced to remain at Tobruk until the siege was lifted in December when the convoy evacuating it was attacked, however. The defence of Tobruk cost the Australian units involved 3,009 casualties, including 832 killed and 941 men taken prisoner."

- Coulthard-Clark (2001). Pages 183–186.

"In early 1941 the 6th Division and I Corps Headquarters took part in the ill-fated Allied expedition to defend Greece from a German invasion. HMAS Perth formed part of the naval force which protected the Allied troop convoys travelling to Greece and participated in the Battle of Cape Matapan in late March. The Australian troops arrived in Greece during March and manned defensive positions in the north of the country alongside British, New Zealand and Greek units. This inadequately equipped and outnumbered Allied force was not able to halt the Germans when they invaded on 6 April and was forced to retreat. The Australians conducted a fighting withdrawal from their initial positions and were evacuated from southern Greece between 24 April and 1 May. Australian warships formed part of the force which protected the evacuation and embarked hundreds of soldiers from Greek ports. The 6th Division suffered heavy casualties in this campaign, with 320 men being killed and 2,030 captured"

- Coates (2006). Pages 144–146.

"While most of the 6th Division returned to Egypt, the 19th Brigade Group and two provisional infantry battalions were landed at Crete where they formed a key part of the island's defences. The 19th Brigade was initially successful in holding its positions when German paratroopers landed on 20 May, but was gradually forced to retreat. After several key airfields were lost the Allies evacuated the island's garrison. Approximately 3,000 Australians, including the entire 2/7th Infantry Battalion, could not be evacuated, however, and were taken prisoner."

- Coulthard-Clark (2001). Page 190.

"The Allied defeat during the Greek Campaign indirectly contributed to a change of government in Australia. Prime Minister Menzies' leadership had been weakened by the lengthy period he spent in Britain in early 1941, and the high Australian losses in the Greek Campaign led many members of his United Australia Party (UAP) to conclude that Menzies was not capable of leading the Australian war effort."

- McKernan (2006). Pages 125–133.

"The 9th Division played a significant role in the First Battle of El Alamein which halted the Axis advance, though at the cost of heavy casualties, including the entire 2/28th Infantry Battalion which was forced to surrender on 27 July."

- Coates (2006). Pages 168–172.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history...

If you like I can go on into the battles of Malaya and Singapore....

Singabore story..lol

SAFTA is a comprehensive agreement that is fully consistent with our shared interests in a strong and effective World Trade Organization and complements our active cooperation in the WTO. Both our countries have made commitments in SAFTA that go beyond our existing liberalisation obligations in the WTO, and we see it as a stepping stone towards further progress at the multilateral level.

http://www.australia.org.sg/

-mail: trade.consult@dfat.gov.au or

Executive Officer (Singapore)
Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore (MBS) Section
South-East Asia (North) Branch
South-East Asia Division
Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Tel:(02) 6261 3406
Fax:(02) 6261 1304

blah blah blah

poor jack

They have not only surrendered, they are squealing like pigs. (Deliverance)

1939 April Robert Menzies becomes Australia's Prime Minister when Lyons dies. He will eventually become his nation's longest serving Prime minister.
September 3 When Great Britain declares war on Germany, the Dominions including Australia enter the war, too. PM Menzies words on a national wireless broadcast: "It is my melancholy duty to inform you officially that, in consequences of a persistence by Germany in her invasion of Poland, Great Britain had declared war upon her and that, as a result, Australia is also at war."
1940 Australia sends the second AIF to support British war effort in Europe, especially in the Western Desert of North Africa, Greece & Crete, on Cyprus and the Middle East.
December Wavell has the Australian 6th AIF Division assault Bardia.
1941 January 4 Tobruk falls to Australian infantry forces.
Australia sends ground forces to Malaya.
With the increase in Japanese power and influence in Southeast Asia Australia begins to feel pressured.
August -
October A war coalition ‘no confidence’ in R.G.Menzies causes a change of leadership. After a short interlude of Arthur Fadden, John Curtain (Labor Party) eventually is appointed new PM.
October HMAS Sydney missing believed sunk.
December 7/8 Japan enters the war with devastating offensive actions throughout the Pacific Rim.
December 10 British battleship "Prince of Wales" and battle cruiser "Repulse" are sank by the Japanese Air Force off the coast of Malaya.
December 27 PM Curtain appeals to the United States.
1942 January 11 Japanese reconnaissance landings on New Guinea start a bloody campaign that will directly threaten the Australian homeland.
January 25 In the wake of total mobilization of Australia for the war effort the central government assumes control of all state budgets
February 7-15 Singapore falls to Japanese troops. General Percival capitulates with 70,000 men, among them the Australian AIF 8th Div.
May As a consequence of the battle in the Coral Sea the Japanese give up their plans for conquering the south of New Guinea with a naval landing force.
July A Japanese land force under Major General Horii tries to reach Port Moresby from Buna via land, using the Kokoda track. In two months of savage fighting the Australian defenders manage to stop him some 48 km short of Port Moresby. Horii falls back to Buna and digs in.
1943 January Buna & Gona fall to Australians after heavy fighting.
April - April 44 In a series of small, but severe battles combined Australia & US forces manoeuvre by land, sea & air and finally conquer the Japanese strongholds of Lae and Madang.
1944 April - June In operation "Hollandia" the US with Dutch cooperation capture the airstrips and supply bases of the Japanese army in northern New Guinea & West Irian Jaya, NEI, defeating the bulk of this army without further fighting.
1945 Australian forces inflict defeats on the Japanese cut off from their homeland islands, on Bougainville & New Guinea and in several selected amphibious landings on Borneo.
May 7 VE Day
An Australian contingent marches in the ceremonial Victory Day Parade in London past HRH George VI and the national flags of all Allied nations.
July Curtain dies while PM. Joseph Benedict Chifley becomes caretaker PM. He puts up an immigration program to draw immigrants from other European countries beside the traditional Great Britain and Ireland. The intent is to counter the newly independent and populous Asian countries like China, India or Indonesia.
August 15 VJ Day. Australia has suffered the loss of 30,000 dead in World War Two.

don't worry about the economy cuz there is plenty of money here
http://www.getin2win.ws