Corzine warns Democrats on angering Florida, Michigan voters --...

To all Obama supporters...and/or anyone who believes that Florida and Michigan should not have their delegates seated: I have to only assume you were not old enough to vote in the last election with the Florida debacle, otherwise, what could possibly explain your ignorance. Democrats lost the election because of Florida. Not because Florida voters did not come out to vote, but because republicans in that state have a way of screwing things up for democrats. If one state mattered then, what do you think the results will be when to states, two states that have suffered greatly due to the mortgage crisis, are disenfranchised. So you want to hold true to your convictions? Kiss Pennsylvania Ave goodbye.

Why now? Why now? Why now? This basic question cannot be asked enough, because it goes to the very heart of the argument. Why now? Where was the disenfranchisement, the hurt feeling, when this first occurred? Why now? What about the people who did not vote, for they understood that their vote would not count? What about them, do they not count? Rules were broken in 2006, Hillary's campaign director made the decision to nullify the votes, Dean is upholding this decision, and ALL candidates agreed with the decision, so why now? You want creditability, then answer this basic question to the publics satisfaction!

It has nothing to do with being an Obama supporter.
It has everything to do with the rules. You can't change them half way through the process.

We could just throw the whole thing open with no rules, no order and no accountability for anyone no matter what they do. You want that?

That would be chaos.

DON'T BE DUPED !!!

Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable. And also because with a Clinton and Obama ticket you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America.“Carpe diem�(harvest the day).

I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She is a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-self, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

Hillary Clinton has been out manned, out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

I think Barack Obama has a once in a life time chance to make the ultimate historic gesture for unity, and change in America by accepting Hillary Clinton’s offer as running mate. Such an act now would for ever seal Barack Obama’s place at the top of the list of Americas all time great leaders, and unifiers for all of history.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

Sincerely

jacksmith...

Mr Corzine needs to exit the National Stage and keep his attention focused on the massive financial issues he faces here in New Jersey.

With revenue running below the aggressive estimates made by Corzine and his crack financial staff, it is obvious there are serious problems beyond those Corzine has already outlined.

One would think that a wall street big wig like Corzine would have seen the writing on the wall regarding the present recession and looked to cut the budget deeper and more effectively than he has.

Instead, Corzine made a few token staff cuts, cut aid to small towns and pronounced his job complete for this years budget.

When challenged, Corzine told state politicos and tax payers alike that if they do not like his ideas, present him with better ones.

For some reason, and maybe it was his campaign promises, I was under the impression that he has the experience to resolve the financial issues the State currently faces.

Instead, he wants to reinvent borrowing by re-naming it an "asset monetization plan", and then attempt to blackmail state employees as well as taxpayers by making cuts designed to encourage people to support his poorly conceived plan.

The chance that he will be able to gain national office and sell off the countries Interstate Highways may be tempting, but, Corzine needs to get back to the business of running New Jersey, and stay out of National politics until he delivers on his promise here at home.

There is plenty of time for him to buy a job at the National level after he has done what he promised here in New Jersey. If he fails to deliver as promised here, all his money will not be able to buy him the office in Washington he seems to be campaigning for.

Come home Governor Corzine, stop trying to escape the problems you promised you were the only one able to repair.

jacksmith wrote:

DON'T BE DUPED !!!
Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable. And also because with a Clinton and Obama ticket you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.
But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America.“Carpe diem�(harvest the day).
I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She is a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-self, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.
Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!
As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.
Hillary Clinton has been out manned, out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.
If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.
The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.
I think Barack Obama has a once in a life time chance to make the ultimate historic gesture for unity, and change in America by accepting Hillary Clinton’s offer as running mate. Such an act now would for ever seal Barack Obama’s place at the top of the list of Americas all time great leaders, and unifiers for all of history.
The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.
Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.
Sincerely
jacksmith...

You are dreaming Jack---off.

jacksmith wrote:

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obamas. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

Don't know what your game plan is but this is not even close to reality.

The DNC should have either seated the delegates or, if allowed by the rules, forced a revote. I hope the voters of Michigan and Florida remember who was responsible for their disenfranchisement -- the agent of "change", Obama.

Obama is unelectable. A recent poll suggests that almost 30 percent of Hillary Clinton voters will vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee. Add it up; McCain gets almost all of the Republicans and almost 30 percent of the Democrats. Thank you Obama, and your ruthless, deceptive and race-card playing tactics, for helping elect the John McCain as President of the United States.

ANGRY AT CRYBABIES wrote:

ATTENTION ALL HILLARY SUPPORTERS: QUIT CRYING!!! ONCE AGAIN, MICHIGAN & FLORIDA HAS NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THEMSELVES!!! THEY BROKE THE RULES!!! BY ALLOWING THEM INTO THE CONTEST AFTER BREAKING THE RULES, WOULD THEY NOT THEY BE DISENFRANCHISING THE REST OF THE US VOTERS WHO OBEYED THE RULES????
STOP THREATENING TO BOYCOTT TO THE REPUBLICAN SIDE ALSO!!! YOU ARE TRAITORS IF YOU DO, NOT TO MENTION, YOU WILL FOREVER BE LABEL AS SORE LOSERS!!!! IF YOUR VOTE GOES TO THE OTHER SIDE IN THIS, SO FAR A FAIR RACE, STAY THERE!!!!!

How do you figure the "rest of us" would be disenfranchised if the votes were counted in Florida and Michigan? Your vote counted. Your voice was heard. I guarantee that if Obama had won the primaries in these two states his supporters would be screaming bloody murder to count the votes. I really think that the voters in these two states will vote for McCain in November if the DNC decides to play dirty with their votes. And I wouldn't blame them in the least. The VOTERS did not make the decision to move up the primaries. Why should they be punished for the actions of their stupid state legislatures?

murray wrote:

The article is wrong when it says, "Clinton won Florida and Michigan. But the Democratic Party stripped the states of delegates because they held primaries earlier than allowed."
What actually happened is that Florida and Michigan knowingly and deliberately broke the party rules in blatant efforts to gain for themselves a more prominent position in the primary/caucus process. They knew when they did that what the consequences would be. Obama, following the rules, did not campaign in either state, while Hillary just skirting the letter of the law, violated the spirit of it and found ways to get message out there for the "illegal" primary votes.
Then there was the primary and caucus, and guess what, Clinton came out ahead in the improper process. To have those delegates now seated at the convention, would be to fly in the face of everyone who observed the rules. It's those people whom it would be a mistake to offend.
If you wantonly break the rules, you can't stay in the game.

It is really tiresome reading the Obama supporters' twist on the truth -- but, hey, why should they be any more honest than their candidate? The truth of the matter (and cover your eyes Obama supporters if the truth offends you) is that Hillary Clinton did NOT campaign in either state, nor did she "find ways to get the message out", whatever that is supposed to mean. Your man Obama DID run TV ads in Florida (which was completely in violation of the agreement of the candidates), and had his supporters out in force with life-size cardboard cut-outs of himself, trying to whip up votes there. HIS CAMPAIGN worked the phones tirelessly in Michigan trying to get the vote out for "uncommitted" on the ballot, telling all prospective voters that a vote for "uncommitted" was in reality a vote for Obama.

So, please stop trying to be holier than thou (again, like your candidate) when your post reeks of lies and deception.

The VOTERS of Florida and Michigan had no say in whether their primary dates would be moved up in the calendar. There is no reason their votes should not be counted.

And, by the way, if Obama folks are so adamant about "following the rules," then why are they insisting that all delegates and superdelegates MUST follow the "will" of the people? The rules say otherwise, as you probably know. The rules say that delegates should exercise their best judgment and VOTE for the candidate THEY BELIEVE to be the most capable. That could be a real problem for Obama, because if they follow the "rules," Clinton is likely to garner more of that support, possibly even enough to hand her the nomination.

Carl R: I commend your attempt to correct the record, but I've found out after many many attempts, that the majority of Obama supporters are not interested in the truth; they are only interested in two things: (1) whatever spin can be developed to explain away all of Obama's deficiencies, and (2) the dissemination of misinformation about Hillary Clinton so as to harm her chances in the nomination process. To everything else, they are deaf and blind.

OBAMA SUPPORTERS, WAKE UP FROM YOUR DREAM. READ HOW OBAMA OBTAINED HIS FIRST ELECTIVE OFFICE. From the Chicago Sun-Times -- A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it. One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama's petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights. "Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?" Askia said. "He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?" In a recent interview, Obama granted that "there's a legitimate argument to be made that you shouldn't create barriers to people getting on the ballot." But the unsparing legal tactics were justified, he said, by obvious flaws in his opponents' signature sheets. "To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up," Obama recalled. Asked whether the district's primary voters were well-served by having only one candidate, Obama smiled and said: "I think they ended up with a very good state senator." Alice Palmer, a friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews. But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat. Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw. "I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant," Obama said. "It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently." Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer's elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama's electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed. "He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions." In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest. All other candidates were disposed of by Obama’s challenges. He then went on to win the election.
www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403o...

"Sticking the finger in the eye of the voters of Florida and Michigan..."

A more accurate description would be "the party leaders of Florida and Michigan running the voters' eyes into the DNC's finger."

Can't ANY Clinton supporter speak the obvious truth that Florida and Michigan created this situation themselves? WHEN they begin to speak the obvious truth THEN maybe they will gain some sympathy for their candidate. Speaking obvious self-serving falsehoods just irritates the people you are trying to persuade.

TRUTH: what a concept.

egc52556: Many of us don't believe that the voters of Florida and Michigan should be punished (i.e. disenfranchised) because the politicians made a mistake. Did you support the disenfranchisement of voters in Florida in 2000? I know I didn't, and I don't support it now in Florida and Michigan. The fact is that a revote is within the rules of the DNC, both states would have allowed it, but Obama would not approve them because he knew he would not win those states. So, what we have is Obama putting his own personal political ambitions above the voting rights of millions of Americans.

Why should I as a Florida democrat be punished because the primary date was changed? I had NO input on that decision. Why would a party punish its own members.
If our vote does not count, I am changing my party and voting for John McCain. The Democratic party has too many issues that need resolving. I have been a Democrat for 30 years!!!! I am not alone here in Florida. Many feel the same way that I do.

Clinton: "Look over there! He's a bad man!"
Obama: "Look over here! We've got work to do!"
McCain: "Where did I put those damn glasses!?!"

Clinton is unelectable. Today's poll suggests that almost 30 percent of Obama voters will vote for McCain if Clinton is the nominee. Add it up; McCain gets almost all of the Republicans and almost 30 percent of the Democrats. Thank you Clinton, and your ruthless, deceptive and race-card playing tactics, for helping elect the John McCain as President of the United States.

Clinton's real Bosnia visit?: http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Hey, I'm a Floridian and I didn't get to vote because it wasn't supposed to count!
The previous "primary" is flawed and Corzine needs to either get another vote or shut up. Taking and seating delegates without consulting my opinion would not just be disenfranchisement - it's plain CHEATING!