Arctic ice 'is at tipping point'

Big deal. Ice cover and temps vary slightly over 30 year period. Did you notice that the ice cover is mostly several inches over most of the Arctic Ocean even in the cold years?

What to do about it? Put all your money in the hands of a bunch of greedy opportunists. Just ask Al.

This is the big deal, if you missed it from the article:

Globally, the Arctic melt will reinforce warming because open water absorbs more of the Sun's energy than ice does.

If you think of a "few inches" as being an irrelevant amount, try a few inches over an entire continent. Or maybe try this experiment with your self. Go wear a white t shirt in the sun and see how hot you get. Then go wear a black t shirt in the sun and see how much hotter you get. Thats the difference a few inches makes....white, reflective snow or black, heat absorbing rock.

There is such a phenomena as 'surface albedo'.

Basically it refers to the amount of energy reflected back into space by the ice layer. If it is too much then the globe can tip into an ice-age, if too little then the opposite occurs & an irreversible warming trend begins.
That's what we are being warned about. We are not there yet but it's not that far away.

John Lilburne wrote:

There is such a phenomena as 'surface albedo'.
Basically it refers to the amount of energy reflected back into space by the ice layer. If it is too much then the globe can tip into an ice-age, if too little then the opposite occurs & an irreversible warming trend begins.
That's what we are being warned about. We are not there yet but it's not that far away.

To make matters worse, arctic warming is sure to cause some degree of tundra thawing. As permafrost is reduced, substantial amounts of methane are released to the atmosphere and methane is far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

We should just ignore this like we've always done, because I want beachfront ocean property in Nevada!

Lance Winslow wrote:

<quoted text>To make matters worse, arctic warming is sure to cause some degree of tundra thawing. As permafrost is reduced, substantial amounts of methane are released to the atmosphere and methane is far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

Of course!
I forgot to mention the amazingly large amounts of Greenhouse Gases locked up in the Tundra Permafrost. Trust me to oversimplify things...:(

The Iceman Cometh wrote:

Big deal. Ice cover and temps vary slightly over 30 year period. Did you notice that the ice cover is mostly several inches over most of the Arctic Ocean even in the cold years?
What to do about it? Put all your money in the hands of a bunch of greedy opportunists. Just ask Al.

No big deal. Species come and go also. Humans are different only in that we have early warning.

So, if I understand this correctly, this is only the second time this has occurred since satellites have been used for record keeping.

That means it could have happened hundreds of times previously and we'd have no record or knowledge of it.

Given that the warming and cooling of the planet is cyclic, I am of the opinion this is just more of the Chicken Little "The Sky is Falling" BS that Al Gore & friends are do adept at spreading.

Oops.. a typo.

That should have read "friends are so adept"

"since satellite records began"

Why do we think that before we started recording these events they never happened? Another odd thing is happening, the sunspots numbers are way behind for this cycle. The sun has more to do with our climate that a can of hairspray.

......So.... We have other issues to deal with...

Hey everybody, don't forget your parasol and sunscreen.

Edd wrote:

This is the big deal, if you missed it from the article:
Globally, the Arctic melt will reinforce warming because open water absorbs more of the Sun's energy than ice does.
If you think of a "few inches" as being an irrelevant amount, try a few inches over an entire continent. Or maybe try this experiment with your self. Go wear a white t shirt in the sun and see how hot you get. Then go wear a black t shirt in the sun and see how much hotter you get. Thats the difference a few inches makes....white, reflective snow or black, heat absorbing rock.

Have you got a band for your tinfoil hat? One with a nice feather would look good.

Sovereignty wrote:

"since satellite records began"
Why do we think that before we started recording these events they never happened? Another odd thing is happening, the sunspots numbers are way behind for this cycle. The sun has more to do with our climate that a can of hairspray.

That's right, baffle them with common sense, they'll never know what hit 'em!

Lance Winslow wrote:

<quoted text>To make matters worse, arctic warming is sure to cause some degree of tundra thawing. As permafrost is reduced, substantial amounts of methane are released to the atmosphere and methane is far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

When I think of "tipping point) I think of the vast and now defrosting(formerly) frozen Siberian peat bog.

It becomes less and less likely to re-freeze once the white light-reflecting ice and snow is gone and the black light-absorbing surface of the bog is exposed. And as it melts all that previously sequestered methane will enter the atmosphere.

See this article from the Guardian:

Warming hits 'tipping point'

Siberia feels the heat It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting

Ian Sample, science correspondent

A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today.

Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age.

The area, which covers the entire sub-Arctic region of western Siberia, is the world's largest frozen peat bog and scientists fear that as it thaws, it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere.

It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying "tipping points" - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a dramatic change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater increase in global temperatures.

The discovery was made by Sergei Kirpotin at Tomsk State University in western Siberia and Judith Marquand at Oxford University and is reported in New Scientist today.

The researchers found that what was until recently a barren expanse of frozen peat is turning into a broken landscape of mud and lakes, some more than a kilometre across.

Dr Kirpotin told the magazine the situation was an "ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming". He added that the thaw had probably begun in the past three or four years.

Climate scientists yesterday reacted with alarm to the finding, and warned that predictions of future global temperatures would have to be revised upwards.

"When you start messing around with these natural systems, you can end up in situations where it's unstoppable. There are no brakes you can apply," said David Viner, a senior scientist at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

"This is a big deal because you can't put the permafrost back once it's gone. The causal effect is human activity and it will ramp up temperatures even more than our emissions are doing."

(Continued at Link)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/au...

I expect Artic ice to ... tip into my martini. Twist, please.

I expect GREENS to express a simpering guilt and gushing lust for POWER.

As for The Guardian ... it's a 2-bit neo-Stalinist rag.

carey529 wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you got a band for your tinfoil hat? One with a nice feather would look good.

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

According to the data that was published today by the National Snow and Ice Data center, the amount of ice in the Arctic sea increased by 25.2% from last September 2007 until August 2008, which proves that the world is getting colder by the day.
The radical left wing liberal socialistic Dems led by Al Gore and Pelosi are lying to their teeth and they are ready to tell those ignorant Americans that cannot read the fine letters that Arctic sea ice dropped to 2nd lowest level since 1979 when the truth is that the amount of ice increased during the last 12 months from 1.65 million square miles to 2.04 million square miles.
It is not surprising that Hillary Clinton was successful with the ignorant and illiterate Americans that did not understand what she told them, except that she will give them free money.
The amount of energy that is required to freeze the new addition of .39 million square miles at depth of mile is enormous and prove that the world is cooling down causing the water temperature in the Atlantic and pacific oceans to drop by one degree during the recent 10 years.
Clearly, blaming the US cars and SUVs for causing the melting of ice in the Arctic sea proved to be a great lie when the amount of ice increased by 25% within one year as reported by the National Snow and Ice Data center today.
For the radical left wing liberal socialistic Dems, the use of the global warming lies of Al Gore aimed at controlling the way of lives of the American people, telling the Americans what car to drive, what bulb to use, how big need their car should be, how large their home should be etc.
It is the Marxist regime of Barack Obama that will use the global warming lies of Al Gore to rule the American people in the Russian Stalinist KGB evil and anti- democratic way.

carey529 wrote:

<quoted text>
Have you got a band for your tinfoil hat? One with a nice feather would look good.

Software protection is also available with MindGuard.

http://zapatopi.net/mindguard/

Look, the sky is falling.