Poll: 60% say depression 'likely'

Donna Atlanta GA wrote:

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You know what. The economic woes aren't really bothering me either because I have a secure job (universities usually don't go out of business), my mortage is modest, I own my car, and inflation (food, utility and gas prices) is really my only concern. I haven't lost anything in the stock market, my home isn't in foreclosure, and I don't buy things I don't really need.
But I'm not going to be arrogant and give the evil eye to the average guy who's facing misfortune. But for the grace of God, it could be any one of us, because disaster is an equal-opportunity thing and sometimes no matter how well you prepare, you can still get shot down.

Good girl. Not many frugal women out there. I've noticed you on other threads where we have different polictical platforms. But in times like these everyone has to be on the same page. I'm afraid the government will start printing money like mad driving up the deficeit to more than 11 trillion. Our next generations will have a huge bill to contend with. Even if we get out of this mess we will still have one hell of a bill to deal with.

workerbeedrone wrote:

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Wow! You're being rated poorly! Don't let that discourage you from posting (like it would :-).
Like you, I don't think the Dems will save the world, but they are closer to to FDR than the NeoCons by a mile (not to say McCain is a NeoCon).
But I'm willing to give the Dems a chance. For all his inexperience, I like this guy Obama. He's growing on me more and more.
This "depression" crap is just crap. We have a lending and housing crisis. That's it! No more! It's bad, but it's not 25% unemployment.
That said, deregulation caused this mess. Everyone agrees on that. Even the Republicans are saying they are in favor of regulating business. That surprises the hell out of me! Considering they're stance for the last 80 years.
Don't agree with you at all on your abortion stance, BTW.
But keep posting! Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

Just for the record, FDR was a failure, and Obama is too similar to Hitler for me.

Call this show, voice your opinion about Obama I will be listening for you.

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Donna Atlanta GA wrote:

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Read these paragraphs and tell me who was responsible for the rise in sub-prime loans? Was it thousands of people rushing the bank demanding them, or was it the government who made it easier for risky loans to be offered and the banks that wanted the fees associated with the mortgages.
I'm not saying the people, per se, are the victims. I'm saying they were caught up in a fiancial scheme to make money. Should they have taken on more mortgage than they could handle? Probably not, but the banks put themselves in a high risk situation because they gambled on sub-primes. And they lost. Do you feel sorry for someone who loses their shirt in Vegas?
I do believe we should look a way to help all involved rather than help out the big guy and let everyone else just go to hell. And I don't see the government doing anything but helping out those who saw an opportunity to get rich quick and lost.

Donna,
No doubt that the government screwed the pooch on that act as well as Clinton bolstering the Community Reinvestment Act, which when coupled with the above was like the Scillia and Charibdes.

The CRA, while well intended, mandates that banks offer a certain % of loans in their community that may be of higher risk. Its meant to help people buy less valuable property in urban areas even though the apriciation of the property would not allow the bank to recoop losses in case of forclosure.

I said it before, I am not holding the government, or Wall Street blameless. I just have a real problem with people saying this bail out is all about Wall street, when the bad loans we just purchased are all on Main Street.

To answer your question of whose fault is it, its the EQUALLY the fault of lender and borrower. This mess could not exisit without either.

robo0425 wrote:

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You are absolutly correct. The banks did lend lots of money they shouldn't have, but why are yo and everyone else in the country unwilling to admit that PEOPLE BORROWED MORE MONEY THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE!
I agree we shouldn't be on the hook for this. i did nothing wrong, niether did you, nor Donna Atlanta.
Let me put it this way....
For 10 years the country was having one hell of a party 96-06 were pretty sweet times financially. The dot-com boomunder Clinton then the Bush admin backing the blue chips. If you knew what you were doing(or have a smart wife ;)) You made some nice coin. Like every good party, at the end, you go to bed and wake up with a serious hangover.
The party ended in '07, and last month we woke up.
The problem with the line of thinking here is that we all have a nasty hangover(even those of us who didn't drink,) and Obamma and McCain are telling you "you're not hung over, someone gave you the flu."
You can take the same meds to kill the headache and belly ache, but if you believe we were given the flu, its not going to stop you from getting wasted at the next party.
This is our fault.

Well I agree with you more than I disagree. As I said before in the post you just responded to:

"Everyone and their mothers were buying up second homes off loans and turning around and selling them for a profit. The housing market was no different than a game of poker. Obviously someone has to lose. Are these idiots gambling large sums of money they don’t even have at fault? HECK YA!"

Maybe you misunderstood my post, but I am very willing to admit that those who blew money they didn’t even have on bad investments are just as much at fault as the banks that lent money to people that had no means of paying it back.

robo0425 wrote:

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You can't sell ice in Antarctica.

Yup, but the government will tax you to subsidize someone not to make and sell it, lol.

robo0425 wrote:

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I said it before, I am not holding the government, or Wall Street blameless. I just have a real problem with people saying this bail out is all about Wall street, when the bad loans we just purchased are all on Main Street.
To answer your question of whose fault is it, its the EQUALLY the fault of lender and borrower. This mess could not exisit without either.

I blame Joe Q. Sixpack too, but it IS a Wall Street bailout. So far the homeowner is not getting bailed out (almost none of them anyway), just the bankers. Where is all the billions of money going? The banks are hoarding it, the bondholders are going to be made whole, but it is not going to Joe Sixpack.(Not that I would advocate that, because all he'll do is just default again after he realizes his workout loan is not giving him any home equity either.)

robo0425 wrote:

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That's total CRAP!
Brokers sold loans to people who wanted something they didn't work for. They provided the easy path and a bunch of half-wit suburbanites went running down it. No one HAD to do anything. They CHOSE to becasue they are greedy, irresponsible fools, whose delusions of grandure made them think that a middle management bean counter is entitled to a mass produced 4000 sq ft home on 4500 sqare feet of land.
Its not like price gouging in the wake of natural disaster, because that is taking advantage of people in NEED. The idiots that are losing their homes right now didn't NEED the house they bought. They WANTED the garden tub with wirlpool jets, and the granite countertops. The WANTED the openconcept entryway with a paladian window. They WANTED to be just like everyone else, and were willing to do anything to get what they WANTED.
Oh, BTW, don't cite the exceptions to the rule. The number of Seinors caught up in thismess in refinance is minimal, every report on forclosure states that the VAST majority of the homes are overpriced suburban cookie cutter houses in the burbs occupied by white-collar middle management.
They took the easy way out, and its costing all of us $700 billion.

I do agree with this as I saw it first-hand. From early 2004-2006, I worked for a builder as a customer service manager whose primary function was to assist new homeowners with material selections. The houses we built were cookie cutter homes (monstly all Frank Betz plans)on teeny-tiny lots that ranged anywhere from 200K-600K. Our most aggressive market was in the 250K to 400K range.

I would see junior high school teachers with husbands that were in "sales" ponying up to buy a $300K house with $500.00 "down". In addition, all these home buyers wanted all the upgrades such as wood flooring THROUGHOUT, every room painted a different color with satin wall finish, and ornately tiled kitchen backsplashes and tub surrounds. We required that Change Orders for all upgrades be created and paid for in full before any of the work could commence, but I'll admit that my employer was pretty lax on that (letting the customers run up the bill and then "just work it into the cost of the mortgage at closing"). I never will forget one of my customers wanted to upgrade the fireplace surround from our standard marble to granite and when I requested $150.00 for the upgrade up front, they didn't have it!! I'm thinking- how in the HELL can you afford a $265K house then??

In 2006 I was laid off from that company in the slimiest of ways and I hope they are now belly-up or at least halfway home. They got so greedy in their mass construction of "spec homes" because they were expecting them to just fly off the market like sneakers at Foot Locker. Last time I drove through one of their subdivisions only about 3 out of 12 homes were actually sold. I laughed all the way back to my rented domicile.

GOP Meltdown 2008 wrote:

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I blame Joe Q. Sixpack too, but it IS a Wall Street bailout. So far the homeowner is not getting bailed out (almost none of them anyway), just the bankers. Where is all the billions of money going? The banks are hoarding it, the bondholders are going to be made whole, but it is not going to Joe Sixpack.(Not that I would advocate that, because all he'll do is just default again after he realizes his workout loan is not giving him any home equity either.)

I agree with that. I really want to know why the oversight seems to have been forgoten about.

I understand that this has left banks afraid/unable to lend, and that effects business. That can't happen, Business needs its line of credit to buy things and make payroll, but I better not hear that banks are still not lending money 3 or 4 months from now.

Alex wrote:

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Well I agree with you more than I disagree. As I said before in the post you just responded to:
"Everyone and their mothers were buying up second homes off loans and turning around and selling them for a profit. The housing market was no different than a game of poker. Obviously someone has to lose. Are these idiots gambling large sums of money they don’t even have at fault? HECK YA!"
Maybe you misunderstood my post, but I am very willing to admit that those who blew money they didn’t even have on bad investments are just as much at fault as the banks that lent money to people that had no means of paying it back.

I do believe I did mis read your post. Sorry.

DonnaAtlanta if you are still here.....

Ya know, I was just thinking about your post on the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act.

This was done in 92. So this was passed by the Bush administration. Didn't they also pass the massive bailout for the S&L's? You remember that, sound financial institutions that were basicallly a house of cards built on quicksand.

So on the heels of the last major bailout of the Finance sector, the US government passed a law encouraging sub-prime lending?

We could train monkeys to do better.

Like I said before, never in histoey has the term, "we get the government we deserve" been more appropriate.

Donna Atlanta GA wrote:

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And I'm not seeing too many Starbucks', nail salons, or tanning salons going out of business either. Amazing that so many people can't pay their mortgage, but check out the French nails, the cappochino and the I-Phone.

Well said, another funny fact is let alone the I-phone, how but the family phones where is 'little sally' has one and she's like 6 years old?? Blows my mind. Then to top it off they pull up in the latest SUV or Beamer for prosperity and jump wearing the newest sneaks and designer jeans. Now they want the rope throwed to em' to help out!!........as old Cheney would say "Go F++K Yourself"!.........oh yeah, and have a nice day too :)

McCain is in Lehigh, Pa. and all you hear is chants of Obama, Obama, Lier, Lier. McCain won't last one week campaigning in Pa. people in Pa. can see right through McCain. I can wait to see him try and campaign in a poor neighborhood in Pa.

McCain is just out of touch.

McLost wrote:

McCain is in Lehigh, Pa. and all you hear is chants of Obama, Obama, Lier, Lier. McCain won't last one week campaigning in Pa. people in Pa. can see right through McCain. I can wait to see him try and campaign in a poor neighborhood in Pa.
McCain is just out of touch.

I didn't know he was in Pa. this week. Maybe he should come to Lancaster and York and have a nice bandstanding chat with the Ghetto boys there, he wouldn't make it 30 minutes before the Secret Service would have to pull him out!

Spendaholicism wrote:

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I didn't know he was in Pa. this week. Maybe he should come to Lancaster and York and have a nice bandstanding chat with the Ghetto boys there, he wouldn't make it 30 minutes before the Secret Service would have to pull him out!

Well, he could always pop into Camp Hill.

Jesus Christ himself could run as a democrat and lose here.

In my voting district, I often joke that I am the token Democrat.

Go figure. A decade of conservative rule sent us into the first depression. A decade of conservative control seems to be sending us into another.......

Vote all conservatives out. When they take an economics class, maybe then we'll consider them.

Despite the overwhelming opposition of we the people across this land, Congress passed another nightmare. If you haven't seen the breakdown, it is here. Note the the part which gives the IRS immunity from federal laws, more power to snoop into your life and make your personal income tax information as exposed as a newborn baby. You will see this wasn't just a "rescue" to recapitalize banks, it is more massive pork ridden debt slapped on our backs.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd400.ht...

As part of a two step process to change the financial and economic landscape of America and Americans, the Treasury Blueprint saw the first step confirmed: the bailout of Wall Street to the tune of $700B with an additional $300B in sweeteners, giving lawmakers the ability to face their constituents as victors. However, the reality is that America has neither the $300B nor the $700B. At every turn, the amount of money that we owe the Federal Reserve rises. Add the interest to the debt and America is reduced to pauper status.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Veon/joan160.htm

Perhaps I am smiling because the Austro-libertarians have been vindicated with this whole mess. Ron Paul has been warning people for years about the Federal Reserve and the distortions in the market. Anyone paying attention can see that he knew what he was talking about. We should not feel that we can’t point out that the Austro-libertarians were warning of this years ago.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/pike8.html

Lance Winslow wrote:

Asian markets tanked again Tues.
Bernanke is pumping another 150 billion into the banks today.
A Federal Reserve rate cut of .5% is now certain.
Don't it make you long for the assurance that our economy is fundamentally OK again.

they say that anything can happen...so what does that tell us about the depression

robo0425 wrote:

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Well, he could always pop into Camp Hill.
Jesus Christ himself could run as a democrat and lose here.
In my voting district, I often joke that I am the token Democrat.

York is no better, He could run for president there as well and loose. We have Bush's left nut down there, Todd Platt's, who can do no wrong and speak no wrong.

janet wrote:

<quoted text>U B smart. Art you related to poster named Caribou Barbie? Haven't heard much reference to corporatism on these posts. Same old rants over and over. Your post is refreshing. Glad I dropped in. Give me mo.

Don't know who Caribu Barbie is. I'm just plain old Jacqueline :)