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Gas-tax gimmick doesn't make sense as political strategy or as ...

The outdated internal combustion engine was essentially perfected 100 years ago, and it remains technologically unchanged.

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Leonard Pinth Garnell
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#1
May 9, 2008
 
At the risk of sounding simplistic, Americans have to make choices. We can accept the minimal damage to the environment and drill in ANWAR, as well as the minimal environmental risk of building new refineries. Doing so would require the lifting of bureaucratic regulations which inhibit such activities. Before we do that, an agreement must be made with the major oil companies to guarantee a reduction in the price at the pump. Without such an agreement, it would be business as usual, only with more oil at ourageous prices.
The other choice is to preserve the environment and continue to pay the high prices, while we fall for the myth of perceived shortages in refined fuel.
There is another option, albeit unattractive. That is the possibility of presumptive congressional regulation. Personally, I do not trust them to do the right thing. Too many lobbyists with too much money do not make for good legislation. At least not with the consumer at heart.
boola-boola
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#2
May 9, 2008
 
Wow did you figure all this out for yourself or did someone help you, what geology college did you attend to get the oil supply of alaska. Would that make you and all the other right wingers happy to anililate alaska for the last drops of oil. Face the real facts, use your mentality and use reality, peak oil is now, no matter where you drill, its only 40-50 years away from being gone, and thats from the experts that started some of the first oil wells in in saudi arabia.
David-1206
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#3
May 9, 2008
 
A dollar here, a dollar there.. it all adds up to real money.
East Side
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#4
May 9, 2008
 
boola-boola wrote:
Wow did you figure all this out for yourself or did someone help you, what geology college did you attend to get the oil supply of alaska. Would that make you and all the other right wingers happy to anililate alaska for the last drops of oil. Face the real facts, use your mentality and use reality, peak oil is now, no matter where you drill, its only 40-50 years away from being gone, and thats from the experts that started some of the first oil wells in in saudi arabia.
OPEC is at peak extraction.. and will gradually draw dow its production.. I believe domestically we have many wells untapped, and also have oil trapped in rock... Mainly northern US and canada.
Gary
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#5
May 9, 2008
 
boola-boola wrote:
Wow did you figure all this out for yourself or did someone help you, what geology college did you attend to get the oil supply of alaska. Would that make you and all the other right wingers happy to anililate alaska for the last drops of oil. Face the real facts, use your mentality and use reality, peak oil is now, no matter where you drill, its only 40-50 years away from being gone, and thats from the experts that started some of the first oil wells in in saudi arabia.
Bull Sh*t!
moral hazard
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#6
May 9, 2008
 
East Side wrote:
<quoted text>
OPEC is at peak extraction.. and will gradually draw dow its production.. I believe domestically we have many wells untapped, and also have oil trapped in rock... Mainly northern US and canada.
"Believe" what you will, but US domestic oil production peaked in 1970 and has declined ever since. Alaska peaked in 1988 and has declined to about 40% of peak production today. Peak production occurs when oil from new wells cannot make up for the rate of depletion from existing wells--hence a net decline in production. This holds true for individual wells, large fields, countries and the world. World oil production peaked in 2005 and has been on a plateau, where new wells have been not-quite replacing depletion (net loss about 1mbpd world-wide so far). This can't be sustained much longer--another year or so--and when world production begins to fall off the plateau (2009-10)there will be a price superspike that will make the present spike in prices look mild.
East Side
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#7
May 9, 2008
 
moral hazard wrote:
<quoted text>
"Believe" what you will, but US domestic oil production peaked in 1970 and has declined ever since. Alaska peaked in 1988 and has declined to about 40% of peak production today. Peak production occurs when oil from new wells cannot make up for the rate of depletion from existing wells--hence a net decline in production. This holds true for individual wells, large fields, countries and the world. World oil production peaked in 2005 and has been on a plateau, where new wells have been not-quite replacing depletion (net loss about 1mbpd world-wide so far). This can't be sustained much longer--another year or so--and when world production begins to fall off the plateau (2009-10)there will be a price superspike that will make the present spike in prices look mild.
you have to remember there is more oil int he gulf than we once thought... actualy 20 times more than we thought... i am sure that makes a difference, not to mention that amount of oil that is in alaska that is untapped because of environmentalists.. There is plenty here.. we just find it easier to take foreign oil.. not sure why.. im sure that will change..
Jim F Allentown
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#8
May 9, 2008
 
How can anyone say the Democrats "at least seek to address this failure" relating to the lack of an energy policy when they oppose nuclear energy, oppose drilling for oil domestically, and create disincentives for building refineries.

IMO, the Republicans are at fault for believing that there is no role for government (opposition to mandating increased automobile fuel economy) and Democrats are at fault for what I outlined in the previous paragraph.
Get Informed
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#9
May 9, 2008
 
What I want Mr. Obama to explain is why is it OK to raise taxes but it's not OK to give some money back to Americans. Granted it's not a lot of money but it's giving back vs. taking more. Now all the Liberals will start screaming what about our Nations crumbling Interstate infrastruture. Well folks, the gas tax was SUPPOSE to be a flat tax. Then some politicians figured out if they changed it to a variable tax how much free money they would have to waste. The bottom line is McCain never said it would save American's from bankruptcy. He does understand that taxation should be decreased whenever possible vs. Mr. Obama's desire to cease Americans hard earned money and waste it in Washington.
East Side
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#10
May 9, 2008
 
Jim F Allentown wrote:
How can anyone say the Democrats "at least seek to address this failure" relating to the lack of an energy policy when they oppose nuclear energy, oppose drilling for oil domestically, and create disincentives for building refineries.
IMO, the Republicans are at fault for believing that there is no role for government (opposition to mandating increased automobile fuel economy) and Democrats are at fault for what I outlined in the previous paragraph.
Yeah.. all are to blame.. you got that one right. I find the funniest thing is when Hillary states that we should tax corporations for this. Now, lets think logically here. Do you really think that oil companies are going to allow this to affect their profits? NO! They will simply charge the consumer the differance.. F'in hillarious that hillary fully believes this would work.. it would only hurt us!
Gary
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#11
May 9, 2008
 
East Side wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.. all are to blame.. you got that one right. I find the funniest thing is when Hillary states that we should tax corporations for this. Now, lets think logically here. Do you really think that oil companies are going to allow this to affect their profits? NO! They will simply charge the consumer the differance.. F'in hillarious that hillary fully believes this would work.. it would only hurt us!
Actually we should remove all corporate taxes entirely, this would put our exports on an even footing with the rest of the world who don't tax their industries.
We should pay more attention to people like Ron Paul.
East Side
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#13
May 9, 2008
 
Gary wrote:
<quoted text>Actually we should remove all corporate taxes entirely, this would put our exports on an even footing with the rest of the world who don't tax their industries.
We should pay more attention to people like Ron Paul.
You know what.. I like the guy. the only problem is that he is fairly radical at times.. A true conservative to a point.
hadenough
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#14
May 9, 2008
 
Gary wrote:
<quoted text>Actually we should remove all corporate taxes entirely, this would put our exports on an even footing with the rest of the world who don't tax their industries.
We should pay more attention to people like Ron Paul.
Taxing the corporations is just another way of getin a larger portion of our money. They realize that higher taxes to companies will just pass on to us and not their profit margins, they just think we are stupid enough to allow it....Oh yeah.
hadenough
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#16
May 9, 2008
 
Americans for Obama wrote:
Gas is very high. It literally does not make any sense for gas to be this high! We all should be outraged!
It is the value of the American dollar on the world market that you should be outraged about. That is the reason gas, food, clothing, and every thing else seems to be gettin so expensive.
Tired of Politics
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#17
May 9, 2008
 
I dont like the gas price (i just paid 68 bucks to fill a Mazda 3!!!!!) But has anyone live overseas before?? I lived in Turkey for 2 years from 2000 to 2002 and gas was $2 per liter. I think it is about 4 liters to the gallon. That makes gas 5 years ago about 8 bucks a gallon. I hope that is not what we are facing now...
Ralph Carney
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#18
May 9, 2008
 
while I agree that the tax relief for the summer doesn't give back much however I think physcological effects may be good I only looked at gas prices when I gassed once a week now I find myself looking every time I drive by a stationTo see them go down may help

“[this is good]”

Joined: May 1, 2008
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ISP Location: Lehighton, PA
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#19
May 9, 2008
 
I agree that the oil companies would end up raising prices if this tax holiday is passed. They take every excuse they can to raise prices. Another question to think about, when the tax holiday is over would they drop the price back down? Probably not, then we would be paying even higher prices.

“[this is good]”

Joined: May 1, 2008
Comments: 809
ISP Location: Lehighton, PA
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#21
May 9, 2008
 
Get Informed wrote:
Yes, you should be outraged at Congress and the politicians that continue to allow this to happen. Don't point your finger in the wrong direction before you learn the real facts. It's not the oil company. The follwing comes from the Federal Trade Commission:
Of a $1 you pay for gas it breaks up the following way:
- 72% for the cost of crude. Crude Costs are controlled by OPEC and future traders on Wall Street not the oil companies. The Oil companies simply pay what the market price is!
- 16% for the cost of refining and distribution to service centers
- 12% for taxes from various goverment's local and Federal
The oil company make 8.3 cents per gallon! That's less than 9% profit. You wouldn't open up a business if someone told you that you would only make 9%. The Liberal Media focuses on the dollar profit and that is simply from the volume of refined crude and gasoline sold but does not represent the real fact that 8.3 cents per gallon is not a windfall profit, Mr Obama and Ms Clinton!
You want to be outraged get outraged at our Congress that keeps stalling on drilling in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, etc. Get outraged that Washington won't give incentives for companies to build more refinery's. It takes 7 to 10 years to build a refinery and companies are not going to invest money for that length of time with no returns unless our government provides incentives. So we sit around and complain and don't do the necessary things to turn this around.
Finally, Hillary is calling for "windfall profit taxes" Well first as mentioned previously there is no windfall profit and next do you think more taxation will not show up in what you pay at the pump. That's where the current taxes show up? HELLO!
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me? I'd open a business making a 1% profit if I knew that was going to be a profit on billions of dollars of sales every year. Only a true idiot would turn down a deal like that. These companies are making more and more money each year and are consistently the most profitable companies in the world. I agree with you that the tax holiday is not the solution but it would take a lot of convincing to get me to agree that the solution is to give these companies access to more oil at the cost of the environment.
Stewie
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#22
May 9, 2008
 
Ok, I hope I'm right in thinking that I'm not the only fat person in the world who gets shouted nasty things at in the street by complete strangers.

But my question is, why? I mean, what does my fatness do to you? I'm not shoving a Big Mac down your throat so why do you feel the need to be nasty?

I'm not saying people on here do it (aside from the person who commented on an earlier thread saying "Atleast you're not fat")

But for example, a few weeks ago I was out shopping with my slim, pretty friend and I was just looking for a drink when these random kids started singing the "Fatty Bum Bum" song at me. Ok, I know it may sound humorous, but it was so hurtful. All I could do was pretend like hell that I didn't hear them and I could tell my friend was thinking "I hope she didn't hear that"

Also, whenever I'm out with my friends, particularly the friend mentioned above, I see all the guys heads turn to look at them, and I'm just the fat friend who's trying too hard to be something I'm not

And now I'm sounding like a stupid cow talking about my own self-pity.

But back to the point, why do people do this?! It's not like I snigger about random people in the street for being short or tall or too thin or something.

Do people seriously not see that what they say affects others?
Get Informed
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#23
May 9, 2008
 
Again, mis informed. The oil companies don't have enough access to oil outside of the Middle East. That's why the cost of crude is so high. All the oil companies do is pay the price for the crude. The US Domestic output is less than 10% of our demand. You complain you don't want to give the oil companies access to more oil OK, then you pay what OPEC says you pay. Nice solution. There's a slab of frozen ground in Alaska not fit for man or beast and you don't want to drill their. Enjoy complaining about gas prices and paying at the pump. Again, complaints, no solutions!
ceart99 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me? I'd open a business making a 1% profit if I knew that was going to be a profit on billions of dollars of sales every year. Only a true idiot would turn down a deal like that. These companies are making more and more money each year and are consistently the most profitable companies in the world. I agree with you that the tax holiday is not the solution but it would take a lot of convincing to get me to agree that the solution is to give these companies access to more oil at the cost of the environment.
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