Stein tackles issues in `Expelled'

H_Reasoner wrote:

I keep having a disturbing vision of a large black armored Mercedes.... heading their way.... Dr. Strangelove at the wheel... I’m just shooting at the tires.

I hate to break this to you, but those evil scientists have already invented run-flat tires.

>>>>Nephilim
We have poverty, racism, education, healthcare problems etc. etc. due to the faulure of the federal government to stop illegal immigration. 10 million illegals here at the cost of over 9 BILLION dollars a year.

>>>>Gillette
You forgot assault weapons. We have gun violence because of ... illegal immigration?

Your comment is laugh-out-loud funny. You really think "poverty, racism, education, healthcare problems, etc." are due to "illegal immigration"?

How do you account for the occurrence of those same problems nationwide, even where their is no noticeable problem with "illegal immigration"? And the occurrence of these things THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY?

The same way you account for the supposedly "communist" ACLU supporting Christians' rights, I guess.

Listen, you can be wrong all you like. But you're not even INTERESTING, which, on an Internet message board, is perhaps the greatest crime.:)

MIDutch wrote:

<quoted text>
Madame/ Mr. H_Reasoner, I would have SCIENCE taught in science class. I would NOT have a problem teaching "creationism" in comparative religion along with ALL of the other creation myths.
Are you claiming that biology or cosmology or old earth geology are religions that somehow are deserving of only their carefully controlled alloted time next to the Chinese or Egyptian creation myths?
Is this how YOU would teach "science"?

No, actually, I would oppose a course of teaching creationism theology, per se, in a science class, I do not oppose it being mentioned as a widely-held opposing THEORY by well over a billion people... I see no harm in acknowleging that there are opposing theories... even wrong ones.

For instance, I would not oppose a science class session mentioning/teaching that many people believe that man did not go to the moon, and here's their argument: filmed in Arizona, shadows wrong, the flag "waving" and all that stuff... let the student engage in and develop critical thinking. They are going to hear it elsewhere... why dodge the issue?

Zeke wrote:

<quoted text>
I hate to break this to you, but those evil scientists have already invented run-flat tires.

Yes, I know... I had them on my armored suburban when I lived in Riyadh...a religious police state.

Gillette wrote:

>>>>Gillette
You forgot assault weapons. We have gun violence because of ... illegal immigration?

Here, most assault weapons are used by gang bangers and criminals

Gillette wrote:

Your comment is laugh-out-loud funny. You really think "poverty, racism, education, healthcare problems, etc." are due to "illegal immigration"?
How do you account for the occurrence of those same problems nationwide, even where their is no noticeable problem with "illegal immigration"? And the occurrence of these things THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY?:)

Ypur ignorance is underwhelming. Perhaps you should watch the news or pickup a newspaper. Let me guess. You are one of those libers who wants us to better understand the plight of these poor gang bangers. More money, more programs blah blah.

Gillette wrote:

The same way you account for the supposedly "communist" ACLU supporting Christians' rights, I guess.
Listen, you can be wrong all you like. But you're not even INTERESTING, which, on an Internet message board, is perhaps the greatest crime.:)

The ACLU is the very same group who is trying to silence Christians in this country to the point store employees have to say "happy holidays". KMA, no one believes the ACLU rhetoric anymore.

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Here, most assault weapons are used by gang bangers and criminals
<quoted text>Ypur ignorance is underwhelming. Perhaps you should watch the news or pickup a newspaper. Let me guess. You are one of those libers who wants us to better understand the plight of these poor gang bangers. More money, more programs blah blah.
<quoted text>The ACLU is the very same group who is trying to silence Christians in this country to the point store employees have to say "happy holidays". KMA, no one believes the ACLU rhetoric anymore.

Poor little much abused Christian. So sad that you can't have EVERYTHING your way. Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Nephilim

>>>"The liberal scientists are gay too?"

I dunno. I don't care.(shrug)

>>>"Odd, I hear sheep."

Odd, I hear crickets. What's the scientific "theory" of ID?

H_Reasoner

>>>"I do not oppose it being mentioned as a widely-held opposing THEORY by well over a billion people... I see no harm in acknowleging that there are opposing theories... even wrong ones."

Kinda pointless, no? Hey kids, we're gonna teach you about the earth today. But just to let you know, there are many in the world who think the world is flat.

>>>"They are going to hear it elsewhere... why dodge the issue?"

Because it's bollox. So why tell kids about every single nutcase idea that people believe in all over the the world - in a SCIENCE class? Okay kids, let's talk about UFO's and leprechauns and ghosts and...

OK, hush it up then... the classroom gives an opportunity to present facts... avoid the issue and it will just arouse curiosity... better off out in the open, I say. And yes, I think a science class is exactly the place to talk about fortune tellers, channelers, seances, spoon-benders, faith healers, ghosts and crop circles... by arguing facts, non-scientific myths may be de-bunked.

H_Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm with you there... I can see, however, a growing movement of 1.4 billion religious believers that may pose a greater, incrementally insidious, theologically intolerant and militant threat than creationist Christians ever will.
I have lived in such a religious police-state. I assure you, fundamentalist Christians are not even in the same league.
It may be that the unintended consequence of prohibiting religious theology from entering into public policy, may in the long run, protect us from a far more menacing "threat" than is posed by Christianity.
It is not, however, inappropriate to allow the presentation of opposing opinions in a free society.

Yes, but the place to present those opposing opinions is not in a science class and presented as science. That is the Wedge in action, insinuating itself into things people dont think are important. Like an ivy root sinking a root into a tiny crack in your brick, next thing you know your whole house is covered in ivy and you are scratching your head wondering how it got out of control. You have to nip it in the bud of every place it tries to start a root.

you have to remember that the middle east used to be the shining star of science and mathematics between 900ad-1200ad and Bagdad was the center of all with every mathematician, astronomer, physicians, all meeting there to learn, untill a leader of the faithful began to preach that mathematics was the work of the devil. One person started what you see in the middle east today. It has been a downward spiral and for the past 900 years they have been left behind by the world. That is what theocratic rule will do for us if we allow it.

H_Reasoner wrote:

OK, hush it up then... the classroom gives an opportunity to present facts... avoid the issue and it will just arouse curiosity... better off out in the open, I say. And yes, I think a science class is exactly the place to talk about fortune tellers, channelers, seances, spoon-benders, faith healers, ghosts and crop circles... by arguing facts, non-scientific myths may be de-bunked.

Actually, debunking myths using science, in a science class, takes time away from teaching core science. I would rather see a separate critical-thinking class tackle those issues. I took one in college called "Lost Tribes and Sunken Continents". It was taught by a wild-eyed, profane, crusty-bearded old fart who had tenure in the archeology department. For an entire semester we applied logic and critical thinking to the Shroud of Turin, Atlantis, UFO's Uri Geller, etc. It was a great education in critical thinking and healthy skepticism... and a hoot to boot. What fun. For the most part I say keep the debunking out of science class.

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Here, most assault weapons are used by gang bangers and criminals
<quoted text>Ypur ignorance is underwhelming. Perhaps you should watch the news or pickup a newspaper. Let me guess. You are one of those libers who wants us to better understand the plight of these poor gang bangers. More money, more programs blah blah.
<quoted text>The ACLU is the very same group who is trying to silence Christians in this country to the point store employees have to say "happy holidays". KMA, no one believes the ACLU rhetoric anymore.

So, it looks like you have a problem with liberals. You have a problem with the scientifically literate. You have a problem with democracy. You have a problem with civil liberties.

Damn Sparky, you do know we're not in the dark ages anymore, right?

Primewonk wrote:

<quoted text>
So, it looks like you have a problem with liberals. You have a problem with the scientifically literate. You have a problem with democracy. You have a problem with civil liberties.
Damn Sparky, you do know we're not in the dark ages anymore, right?

Looks like you have a problem with assumptions.

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Looks like you have a problem with assumptions.

Hey, "rejects"*, you still blathering on and on?

I thought your "rejects" had Left The Building.

But, I see you're still spouting your lies as usual.

Seems you cannot or will not learn anything.

__________

* Nephilim is literally the Hebrew word for 'rejects'. Refers to the half-human giants who were the offspring of fallen angels and humans. A mythical creature.

Fitting, really, as everything Rejects posts is pretty much based on myth.

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Looks like you have a problem with assumptions.

Would it be an assumption by me to say that you know what the "scientific theory" of ID is?

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Looks like you have a problem with assumptions.

Nope! His assumptions were right on target.

The Dude wrote:

<quoted text>
Would it be an assumption by me to say that you know what the "scientific theory" of ID is?

My personal assumption is that the "scientific theory" of ID is:
the theory of how to get Creation in a science classroom.

So is this the best you scientific mind types can do, ad hominem? Keyboard terrorists oh my!

Nephilim wrote:

So is this the best you scientific mind types can do, ad hominem? Keyboard terrorists oh my!

If you actually posted a REAL point-- then there may be something worth commenting about.

OTHER than your obvious personal flaws, that is.

Nephilim wrote:

So is this the best you scientific mind types can do, ad hominem? Keyboard terrorists oh my!

If they terrorize you, then you must be wrong.