Supreme Court's 5-4 decision on health care law hands Obama a victory, GOP 'a cause'

Jun 28, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Daily American

The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the vast majority of President Barack Obama 's historic health care overhaul, including the hotly debated core requirement that virtually all Americans have health insurance.

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201 - 220 of 269 Comments Last updated Aug 11, 2012

Since: Mar 08

Allentown, PA

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#218
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
&#8206;17. Obamacare Tax on Health Insurers (Tax hike of $60.1 bil/takes effect Jan. 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.
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18. Obamacare $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives (Tax hike of $0.6 bil/takes effect Jan 2013)
and...
as your article said,
" But there is less to this than meets the eye. First of all, the new estimate is based on a different budget window — and it is an 11-year number, not a 10-year number like the original estimate. So the two estimates are not comparable."
Ill give you a hand:
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Brian Walsh, communications director for the NRSC, defends the use of the figure.“The simple reality is that the cost of their bill has gone up dramatically — as Republicans predicted it would — and this latest news just highlights that the number they used to sell the bill was rigged,” he said.“It was a budget shell game.”
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Still, here’s an interesting experiment. The CBO has thus far only estimated nine years of a fully implemented health care law. But if you assume that the cost in 2023 would be the same as 2022 — a generous assumption — you end up with a ten-year price tag of about $2 trillion.(The “net cost” would be $1.4 trillion.)
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Here's the important point:
But Democrats sold the bill, even to their own members, as a $1-trillion, 10-year vehicle. It could well turn out to be a $2 trillion 10-year vehicle, as anyone with a calculator could have figured out at the time. In other words, the cost of the law may not be twice as much as estimated, but it is on track to be twice as much as touted.
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In other words, the Democrats lied. So why would you trust the Obama healthcare pimp sheet?

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

you poop in clean water

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#219
Jul 1, 2012
 
LookingToEscape wrote:
<quoted text>
Ill give you a hand:
.
Brian Walsh, communications director for the NRSC, defends the use of the figure.“The simple reality is that the cost of their bill has gone up dramatically — as Republicans predicted it would — and this latest news just highlights that the number they used to sell the bill was rigged,” he said.“It was a budget shell game.”
.
Still, here’s an interesting experiment. The CBO has thus far only estimated nine years of a fully implemented health care law. But if you assume that the cost in 2023 would be the same as 2022 — a generous assumption — you end up with a ten-year price tag of about $2 trillion.(The “net cost” would be $1.4 trillion.)
.
Here's the important point:
But Democrats sold the bill, even to their own members, as a $1-trillion, 10-year vehicle. It could well turn out to be a $2 trillion 10-year vehicle, as anyone with a calculator could have figured out at the time. In other words, the cost of the law may not be twice as much as estimated, but it is on track to be twice as much as touted.
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In other words, the Democrats lied. So why would you trust the Obama healthcare pimp sheet?
Obama healthcare "pimp sheet"?
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this is where I get my info regarding the "21 taxes"

http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-obama-t...
(americans for tax reform)
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and......, everything the CBO says, everything the GOP says, and everything the DNC says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
the CBO has been, and continues to be, wrong about a great many things.
are they wrong about this? were they wrong then, but right now?
.
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fact remains that the only parts of Obamacare that the GOP is griping about is how to pay for it, they're all for the pre-existing condition clause, which could, in theory, be the single most expensive piece.

Since: Mar 08

Allentown, PA

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#220
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama healthcare "pimp sheet"?
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this is where I get my info regarding the "21 taxes"
http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-obama-t...
(americans for tax reform)
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and......, everything the CBO says, everything the GOP says, and everything the DNC says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
the CBO has been, and continues to be, wrong about a great many things.
are they wrong about this? were they wrong then, but right now?
.
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fact remains that the only parts of Obamacare that the GOP is griping about is how to pay for it, they're all for the pre-existing condition clause, which could, in theory, be the single most expensive piece.
The subject was the plan itself, not the 21 taxes alone.

Since: Mar 08

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#221
Jul 1, 2012
 
McGruff wrote:
<quoted text>
because they aren't going down. The will be no reason for me to admit something that won't happen.
The rates will drop to 8% at least for one year so Obama can meet his promise.
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If you take into consideration all other social costs, you will not be able to run Obamacare at a deficit for long.
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The illegals here will get coverage but were not added to the cost when the bill was passed. Under any amnesty plan plan they will get coverage and will add to the cost of Obamacare. You will probably see a huge influx of illegals as the date draws near for the coverage.
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I do not see the 8% lasting long.

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#222
Jul 1, 2012
 
LookingToEscape wrote:
<quoted text>
The subject was the plan itself, not the 21 taxes alone.
the plan itself is modeled after Romney's plan in Massachusetts.
the plan also requires that each state come up with it's own plan, the fact that they've had since 2010 to do it, with federal grant money waiting for them to come up with something, doesn't seem to be a big part of the conversation though.
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and why does the GOP seem so interested in keeping the good stuff but want to get rid of the taxes that pay for it (that's where the 21 taxes come in)?
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I've researched those taxes, and they don't seem to be enough to put anyone under.
Stoneman

Boise, ID

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#223
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
because doctors take a hippocratic oath.
(sorta hard to sleep at night when you turn people away)
They need to get used to it.

Which is less ethical-- turning people away who won't/can't pay for their treatment or sticking the people who HAVE insurance or taxpayers with the cost of the "indigents"?

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#224
Jul 1, 2012
 
Stoneman wrote:
<quoted text>
They need to get used to it.
Which is less ethical-- turning people away who won't/can't pay for their treatment or sticking the people who HAVE insurance or taxpayers with the cost of the "indigents"?
all depends on the doctor I suppose.
but your use of the word indigent tells me that you're more concerned with money than life.
how sad for you.
Stoneman

Boise, ID

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#225
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
all depends on the doctor I suppose.
but your use of the word indigent tells me that you're more concerned with money than life.
how sad for you.
If you choose to mooch off the labors of others for your health care you are a pathetic parasite and deserve the consequences of your choices.

Very sad for you.
Mothra

Phoenix, AZ

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#228
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
the plan itself is modeled after Romney's plan in Massachusetts.
the plan also requires that each state come up with it's own plan, the fact that they've had since 2010 to do it, with federal grant money waiting for them to come up with something, doesn't seem to be a big part of the conversation though.
.
and why does the GOP seem so interested in keeping the good stuff but want to get rid of the taxes that pay for it (that's where the 21 taxes come in)?
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I've researched those taxes, and they don't seem to be enough to put anyone under.
Romney's plan only provided for catastrophic coverage. Democrats overrode his veto and made in comprehensive coverage.

And then Deval Patrick (D), expanded it further.

No longer the 'Romney' plan.

Since: Mar 08

Allentown, PA

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#230
Jul 1, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
the plan itself is modeled after Romney's plan in Massachusetts.
the plan also requires that each state come up with it's own plan, the fact that they've had since 2010 to do it, with federal grant money waiting for them to come up with something, doesn't seem to be a big part of the conversation though.
.
and why does the GOP seem so interested in keeping the good stuff but want to get rid of the taxes that pay for it (that's where the 21 taxes come in)?
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I've researched those taxes, and they don't seem to be enough to put anyone under.
I find myself endlessly repeating myself with Obama supporters.
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The Supreme Court did not settle the issue, business will. Business will add up all the costs, look at the markets they serve and then make assumptions on what the future looks like.
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If they feel the future looks pretty tough, they'll drop product lines and terminate the employees involved with those lines. They will terminate employees where ever possible and may even move operations over seas.
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Their cost go beyond healthcare, they will be looking at energy costs, legal costs, material costs and maybe even the rest of Barack's happy spending plans.
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The well to do and the rich will do the same. There is a silver lining, maybe if we are lucky Sean Penn will leave and go to Cuba.

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#231
Jul 1, 2012
 
Stoneman wrote:
<quoted text>
If you choose to mooch off the labors of others for your health care you are a pathetic parasite and deserve the consequences of your choices.
Very sad for you.
I am currently enjoying the consequences of my choices, thank you very much.
(you're barking up the wrong tree with that parasite business, it's not US Citizens that are costing the taxpayer so much money)

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#232
Jul 1, 2012
 
LookingToEscape wrote:
<quoted text>
I find myself endlessly repeating myself with Obama supporters.
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The Supreme Court did not settle the issue, business will. Business will add up all the costs, look at the markets they serve and then make assumptions on what the future looks like.
.
If they feel the future looks pretty tough, they'll drop product lines and terminate the employees involved with those lines. They will terminate employees where ever possible and may even move operations over seas.
.
Their cost go beyond healthcare, they will be looking at energy costs, legal costs, material costs and maybe even the rest of Barack's happy spending plans.
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The well to do and the rich will do the same. There is a silver lining, maybe if we are lucky Sean Penn will leave and go to Cuba.
I'm not a big fan of Obama, but I find very little wrong with this healthcare bill.
people in this country lose everything due to medical costs, some of them because the insurance company decided something huge wasn't covered, or denying someone based on a pre-existing condition.
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and yeah, it needs to be paid for.
one of the things congress pledged to do was match all spending with cuts to offset it.
the taxes that are meant to pay for it,(and yeah, they're taxes) are the only things that congress want to get rid of, they like all the other parts, and some insurance companies have already started covering preventive care that's mandated in the bill.
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you're assuming that the future looks rough. why?
do you think that the US is becoming a 3rd world country or something?
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(lol at sean penn, he's such an a-hole, Cuba doesn't want anyone like that putz around)

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#233
Jul 1, 2012
 
McGruff wrote:
<quoted text>
how much extra are you willing to pay to provide others with insurance? Where is the money going to come from? Will everyone in the end be on gov insurance?
I'm already paying for them, through my premiums and my taxes.
and guess what...? so are you.
and we have been since our very first paycheck.

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#236
Jul 1, 2012
 
McGruff wrote:
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yes the USA is becoming a third world country. Obammy is making sure of it.
How will it be paid for? Tell is how the millions added to Medicaid will be paid for.
The cbo says at least 800k people will lose their jobs because of this. They also say it will increase the cost of your current insurance and that employers will drop at least 4 million workers from their current insurance.
are we going to be a third world?
"In poor countries, many people never see doctors. Only the elite go to college.

Visit the Third World, and you see a struggling middle class shoehorned between shanty-town poverty and a jet-setting plutocracy - tiny in both numbers and tax burdens. The dirty air sickens the stomach.

What distinguishes poor from rich nations is that the latter invests in health care, education and transportation. They regulate what may go into the environment. These things don't come for free. They are paid for with taxes and, in some cases, higher prices."

http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/12851034...

you're right, that's exactly where we're headed, but I don't think that Obama is totally responsible, in fact I would bet that this situation could be traced back for decades.
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wait, it's being paid for by the 21 new taxes (I'm sure you know about these)

http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-obama-t...

Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax (takes effect Jan. 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer)

unless you're in a healthcare related business, then this is the only one that affects you as an employer.
Jumper

Owensboro, KY

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#238
Jul 1, 2012
 
The outcome of this policy has already been planned years ago.
Patriot

Boulder, CO

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#239
Jul 2, 2012
 
OBAMACARE PAGE 1004: YOU MUST HAVE RFID CHIP IMPLANTED IN YOUR BODY

...Just Like Cattle ...Page 503, The Implanted Chip Must Be Tied to Your Bank Account!

http://polidics.com/news/another-hidden-secre...

Since: Mar 08

Allentown, PA

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#241
Jul 2, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>

you're assuming that the future looks rough. why?
do you think that the US is becoming a 3rd world country or something?
International competition, the United States is not the only game in town anymore. There are plenty of places to park your money.
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The Democrat Party and Barack Obama still think it's 1965.
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France has this problem now. The country has lost many of their industrialist and rich because of their heavy taxes. The French people have to accept not everyone wakes up in the morning thinking about how they can work to fund more welfare.

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Since: Aug 09

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#242
Jul 2, 2012
 
LookingToEscape wrote:
<quoted text>
International competition, the United States is not the only game in town anymore. There are plenty of places to park your money.
.
The Democrat Party and Barack Obama still think it's 1965.
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France has this problem now. The country has lost many of their industrialist and rich because of their heavy taxes. The French people have to accept not everyone wakes up in the morning thinking about how they can work to fund more welfare.
the US hasn't been the only game in town for decades.
a lot of jobs went over-seas to countries without minimum wage laws, but those countries are realizing that US companies are paying their citizens far less than they're worth.
in the next few years those jobs will start coming back to the US, manufacturing and customer service, as well as medical services are the jobs that people will have in the US a decade from now.
the cost of fuel is making overseas manufacturing too costly, coupled with the "union-busting" that's currently going on in the mid-west, plus the tax credit that is being given to US based manufacturers....., well, you get the idea.
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my brother is a tool & dye maker in a very small shop, maybe a dozen employees.
they used to send every mold created overseas to be mass produced, but now only about half go over-seas, the other half stay in the US.
which means that instead of goods being "made in china", soon a lot more of them will say "made in the USA".

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

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#243
Jul 2, 2012
 
McGruff wrote:
<quoted text>
your concept of a third world country is strange to say the least. I would think it would have to do with the standard of living.
The taxes will in no way pay for the massive influx of new Medicaid participants. Your taxes and your insurance premiums are going up. Way way way up.
the crux of the biscuit"

"What distinguishes poor from rich nations is that the latter invests in health care, education and transportation. They regulate what may go into the environment. These things don't come for free. They are paid for with taxes and, in some cases, higher prices."

Since: Mar 08

Allentown, PA

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#244
Jul 2, 2012
 
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
the US hasn't been the only game in town for decades.
a lot of jobs went over-seas to countries without minimum wage laws, but those countries are realizing that US companies are paying their citizens far less than they're worth.
in the next few years those jobs will start coming back to the US, manufacturing and customer service, as well as medical services are the jobs that people will have in the US a decade from now.
the cost of fuel is making overseas manufacturing too costly, coupled with the "union-busting" that's currently going on in the mid-west, plus the tax credit that is being given to US based manufacturers....., well, you get the idea.
.
my brother is a tool & dye maker in a very small shop, maybe a dozen employees.
they used to send every mold created overseas to be mass produced, but now only about half go over-seas, the other half stay in the US.
which means that instead of goods being "made in china", soon a lot more of them will say "made in the USA".
I expect some jobs to come back, but it won't be a flood. I do not think a tax credit will be that big a factor. Cheap to ship high value items (like IPhones) will still be made in the lowest cost countries.

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