Hearing for children at polygamist retreat grinds to a halt

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Tweedy wrote:

<quoted text>For goodness sakes, so you think it would be okay for your daughters to have babies at 14 just because an old law was on the books, or are you arguing the legal?

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Hannah Rebekah wrote:

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Is this link your source I asked for in response to your posts that states:
"One 16 year old has four children?"
If so, I checked it and it said no such thing. So could you please provide the source for your post? Please.

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Hannah Rebekah wrote:

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Neither. I'm not arguing...if one was within the law at the time of the marriage and then the State changes the law the State cannot go back and prosecute those who are now illegal under the new law.
I'm stating the obvious. If someone is guilty and deserves to be convicted they will not be able to use the evidence in a criminal court because of how Texas executed things and the evidence they seized will not be able to be used.

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Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

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Yes, every little thing these people did was abusive..
Over the past few weeks we've discussed how every element of christian family life was prostituted, twisted, made vile and filthy, sacrificed on the alter of aging pedophiles that are using women and children to buy their way into heaven.
What was good and pure about any of it?
- family life...could be ripped apart at the willy nilly...


- the loving trust of children... raped and banished...
- the love of a mother - reassigned and she
could not take the children of one man into the home of another.... so they were parceled out to God only knows who.
- the love and trust of parents - worthless, if the prophet ordered the sons to be banished, or the daughters to be raped - in the name of the Lord.
- marriage - fake marriages, no legal standing under the law, husbands in hiding and refusing to even stand up for their kids or their wives.
- civil responsibility - welfare fraud of the first water - YOUR TAX DOLLARS to support 40 and 50 kids to a man, money the kids seldom see, funneled up through channels to the prophet.
- life skills.... the girls taught only about
having kids, the boys taught only unremitting labor for which they are seldom paid...
Nothing in that compound was wholesom, protective, safe, or healthy for kids.

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Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
Is this link your source I asked for in response to your posts that states:
"One 16 year old has four children?"
If so, I checked it and it said no such thing. So could you please provide the source for your post? Please.

Geno56 wrote:

<quoted text>It does! Go to the video in that link called "saving the sect children and play the video. It is 3/4 to the end of the interview!

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Tracy wrote:

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I agree with you. Especially when these sects own many businesses. FLDS has millions of dollars and businesses in Las Vegas, Mesquite Nevada, and ST. George Ut. Kingston clan has businesses such as 3 coal mines in Central UT, many businesses in Salt Lake and Bountiful Ut. They own garbage services, construction co. & many other companies. They have their members work at them and the sect leaders take their paychecks. They have state and federal contracts. All while their wives collect welfare. What a racket they have going. The government needs to stop this and prosecute anyone of them that has participated in this fraud.

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Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

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Nope - that came from discussion on MSNBC's Verdict, Dan Abrams...but its not in the link... so you'll just have to wait...

Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

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Thanks! I heard it but did not find it and didn't think to play the vid....

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Someone who cares wrote:

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You are a very narrowminded person who does not see the bigger picture here and never will. I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD ABUSE OF ANY KIND, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?
Now that we've gotten that out of the way,I want to reiterate what I have said in past posts and that is that the people involved, children as well as the adults, are entitled to due process in every aspect of this case. Now before you get all excited and tell me that these adults do not deserve due process, that they are no good, etc, etc, let me ask you this: How would you feel if somewhere down the road, if there are criminal charges filed and more than likely there will be and rightly so, if the children have been harmed. How would you feel if the people were convicted of a crime, but on appeal it was overturned because of a technicality? This has happened before in other cases because of overzealous investigators who did not make sure the persons rights were protected because they didn't care.You could say they were guilty as hell, but because of procedural errors, they walked.
This is one big reason individual rights must be observed. Also, everytime someones rights are violated, it makes it that much more easy for the next persons rights to be violated and slowly but surely, it becomes the norm and all of our rights are eroding.This is the big picture here.Take care of the children, deal with the allegations, but tread lightly, lest the possible conviction gets overturned because of someones rights being violated. It's really very simple, but in alot of people's minds, these people are nothing but scum and so because of that, they do not have any rights. Sorry, but they do.
Also, when I defend someones rights, no matter how rotten they may be, I am also defending mine as well as my families rights.Apparently some of you aren't concerned about that, but I sure as hell am.
And I do stick to my belief that the children being taught life skills such as cooking, cleaning, farming,etc, male or female, is a very good thing and is not abuse.
Now, please do not take this statement and turn it into something other than what I truly said. Do I say I approve of abuse? No, I said teaching them life skills is a good thing, not abuse. Don't throw in all that other stuff that you threw at me earlier. NOW HEAR THIS, I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD ABUSE, MAKING THE CHILDREN SUPPOSED SLAVES AND HOLDING THE CHILDREN BACK FROM HAVING A FUTURE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?I THINK I AM CRYSTAL CLEAR ON MY POSITION, SO PLEASE DON'T TWIST IT AND MAKE IT SAY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY.

Tweedy wrote:

<quoted text>Technically true - but how do you feel about it on a moral basis? Do you feel it is moral for these young girls to be forced into marriage and to give birth at 13 - 16 yrs. of age? I would love to hear your answer not only to that but also to whether you think it is ethical for the women to be "married off" as the leader chooses, and have no choice in the matter. Please don't argue these are not the facts; I've been investigating this and it is well documented, and please don't try and evade with a request for the info, just turn on CNN or FOX, watch Dr. Phil, the local news, pick up any newspaper not run by LDS, and please give your opinion. Thank you, I am just curious after reading your postings.

RCABEST wrote:

<quoted text> I understand you. Not a thing wrong with cooking and cleaning - Males and Females in this house have to do it daily! You are correct; everyone has a right to due process and God help anyone who is denied that. Even murders have the right to a fair trial, even if you know they did it. That is why our legal system works. This is a very tough situation and no one likes what those families are going through because of Mr. Jeffs. That man is so abhorrent, but even he deserves a fair trial (even though I hope they put him away for a long, long time!)

TWEEDY wrote:

For Someone Who cares - I couldn't reply to your post for some reason:So here it is: Re: Girls and Boys Cooking and Cleaning: You know, I too think it is a shame that so many young people are so spoiled. Many think it is beneath them to take menial jobs while going to school, it would do their hearts good, even if Mom and Dad have money - it teaches good lessons. I have not read your previous posts so forgive me if I just say this, of course you know that these girls do not get an education beyond the fifth grade, and their main job is breeding to insure the leader, Jeffs, has a steady supply of women to use as currency for the men in the cult and for young men to work the orchard and molassass factory? It has nothing to do with working for character, it is simply slave labor. I can tell you mean well, and your point is a good one - and how blessed you are to have 9 unspoiled children! I know those mothers do love their kids, but they are not really capable mentally to protect them, through no fault of their own. It is so very sad! You do make a good point re: normal parents teaching lessons re: life.

Lacilu98 wrote:

incestual sex leading to more mentally challenged LDS Mormon followers who can't put a sentence together when asked simple questions.

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RCABEST wrote:

<quoted text> I understand you. Not a thing wrong with cooking and cleaning - no one likes what those families are going through because of Mr. Jeffs. That man is so abhorrent, but even he deserves a fair trial (even though I hope they put him away for a long, long time!)

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Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

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Interesting point:
CNN interviewing one of the escapee females who has written a book...
She said children are not bonded to their parents. They bond with other children because they are raised communely and do not have a mother/child relationship... her own children were not allowed to call her mother. They were taught to call her mother Karen...and someone else mother Catherine, mother Margaret.....no single set of parents are recognized as theirs.