Hearing for children at polygamist retreat grinds to a halt

Someone who cares wrote:

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We can see where your mind is at with your ZigZag Man logo.You need to come out from your cloud of pot smoke haze and realize what's really taking place in this world.
Evidently you're the type of person who will just say "Yes, Master", and will do anything you are told. Just keep smoking your mind altering drugs and everything wil be fine in your world.
You just don't understand that your rights are being eroded at the same time that these peoples are.Or maybe you don't care?
They may or may not be guilty of crimes and if they are, they should be prosecuted for them. However, they need to be tried fairly and given due process, not tried in the media like they are.
Do you understand what I am saying? Don't reply and say that I am for these people and that I don't care about the kids. If that is how you perceive what I said, then you need to go back and read the last section of the previous paragraph.
GIVE THESE PEOPLE DUE PROCESS. HOW THESE PEOPLE ARE TREATED LEGALLY NOW WILL DETERMINE HOW WE ARE ALL TREATED IN THE FUTURE.EVERYTIME PEOPLE ARE DENIED DUE PROCESS,NO MATTER HOW ROTTEN THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE, THE RIGHTS OF EVERYONE ELSE ARE SLOWLY ERODING AWAY.I DO NOT CONDONE ANY TYPE OF CHILD ABUSE.I CAN'T MAKE MY POSITION ANY CLEARER TO YOU, SO DON'T TWIST MY WORDS.

O.K. Lets see here I haven't smoked a joint since college and I do believe they are getting due process here as the matter is in court. No one has been arrested and thrown in jail,(YET) No one has been accused of anything. All that is happening here is a disscusion about Young girls being taught and incouraged and Possibly brainwashed into marring much older men. And they are not even legal amrriages so it is an issue of statatory rape, A crime! And if you say thats not in evidence then where did all the babies come from! Rant and rave all you want because your simply just another anti government conspericy theroist whose paronia has run wild. You know "the sky is falling" type!

People who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.
lol......just thought i might put that out there ........see if it gets any traction.
OH and one more.
Mexico has announced they will not be participating in the Olympics this year. They said everyone who can run, swim or jump, has already left the country.

Geno56 wrote:

<quoted text>O.K. Lets see here I haven't smoked a joint since college and I do believe they are getting due process here as the matter is in court. No one has been arrested and thrown in jail,(YET) No one has been accused of anything. All that is happening here is a disscusion about Young girls being taught and incouraged and Possibly brainwashed into marring much older men. And they are not even legal amrriages so it is an issue of statatory rape, A crime! And if you say thats not in evidence then where did all the babies come from! Rant and rave all you want because your simply just another anti government conspericy theroist whose paronia has run wild. You know "the sky is falling" type!

The children are in prison and the mothers are in an emotional prison.
Free the children.
Arrest the guilty or take the men out of the compound so the children can go home.

if their is child abuse then the ones responsible need to pay the price but you do not go in and remove every child from their parents ,this is the equivalent of going to an apartment complex and removing all the children because one or two parents in the building abused their child

Geno56 wrote:

<quoted text>O.K. Lets see here I haven't smoked a joint since college and I do believe they are getting due process here as the matter is in court. No one has been arrested and thrown in jail,(YET) No one has been accused of anything. All that is happening here is a disscusion about Young girls being taught and incouraged and Possibly brainwashed into marring much older men. And they are not even legal amrriages so it is an issue of statatory rape, A crime! And if you say thats not in evidence then where did all the babies come from! Rant and rave all you want because your simply just another anti government conspericy theroist whose paronia has run wild. You know "the sky is falling" type!

and you sir are another I GOTCHA! See.....there they are! Those people......... ewwwwwww....yeah Hang em......hang em till they dry.
You have over 100,000 registered sex offenders minimum running around the streets of america of which over half are off the radar. Those are the ones they know about. Why does 'your' goverment allow them to walk about in society with only a picture on a web site, most having no clue as to thier whereabouts? Is that goverment inept? Which should you be concerned with... a few who may have due to religious convictions broken the law, or the 50 thousand plus roaming the streets you have no clue about??
Conspiracy? lol Waco. The ATF was coming up for renewed funding before congress in weeks. They had to show they were doing thier stuff..to ensure that funding went thru. They had publicity booths all set up......ready for the take down and raid. They invited the media. yada yada... and could have taken Koresh weeks before on a number of occasions when he went to town. Nooooooo......they have to have a spectacle. And the result was? OVer 23 children under 10 yrs old burned alive.
What part of wake up dont your understand?

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/distressed-...
highlights:

Distressed About the FLDS Situation in Texas
by J. Max Wilson

My wife home-schools our children, and we feel that deciding to do so is within our parental rights. We want a great degree of autonomy when it comes to how we raise our children and what beliefs we teach to them. In the United States that right is fairly well established. Just because our neighbor believes that the religious beliefs we teach to our children are wrong or even dangerous, doesn’t mean that the state should be able to take away our children.

So, returning to the situation in Texas, the removal of 400 children from their families is very distressing to me. On the one hand, it is distressing because I have to ask why the state feels justified in “saving” these 400 kids from their potentially abusive situation, while so many other children in demonstrably more immediate and more serious danger are left to fend for themselves against abusive, alcoholic parents? Are the abused, neglected, or systematically isolated children I reported worth less to the state than the children of the FLDS in Texas?

Reports of yesterday’s court appearance say that Angie Voss, from the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, justifies the removal of the children by saying that the religious beliefs of the FLDS church, to which the children belong, create “an environment where young women have sex with older men, and young boys grow into adult men and have sex with young children” and that they “are living under this umbrella belief that having a child at a young age is a blessing — any child in that environment would not be safe.” Responding to the cross examining attorney’s question,“So based on the supposition that this may happen one day in the future, 400 children should not be with their families?” Ms. Voss answered,“Yes, ma’am.”

So, according to Ms. Voss, an environment that creates the future potential for abuse justifies the removal of more than 400 children from their parents. This flies in the face of my own experience with child protection agencies. While there was clearly an ongoing environment of serious potential abuse, we were told repeatedly that they would not remove the children unless there was visible, physical evidence of abuse. Why are these children not worth saving?

At a certain level I am sympathetic to Ms. Voss’s line of reasoning. After all, one could make the case that the FLDS movement bears at least an superficial, if not deeper similarity to the Children of God (later called The Family of Love) organization that arose from the Jesus Movement among the hippies in the late 1960s and 1970s.

As I said, on one hand it is distressing that they have chosen to “save” these kids while so many others are left to deal with abuse on their own. But, on the other hand, I am also very concerned about the violation of constitutional rights that the action of the Texas government may represent. As I mentioned above, I strongly support the protection of Parental Rights with regard to their children, and I worry about the potential violation of the free exercise of religion, due process, and illegal search and seizure. We cannot start punishing people because they could potentially commit a crime. We can only punish them for crimes committed.

Binah wrote:

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The children are in prison and the mothers are in an emotional prison.
Free the children.
Arrest the guilty or take the men out of the compound so the children can go home.

Here here! Read my earlier post on the Forensic psychiatrists expert testimony before the court yesterday.... The 'families' need reunification and speacial prvisions and the children wil be harmed in foster care.

The Babbling Baptists have em.!! yikes!!!

Binah wrote:

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The children are in prison and the mothers are in an emotional prison.
Free the children.
Arrest the guilty or take the men out of the compound so the children can go home.

No one as yet is in prison. And no one as yet as been proved guilty. The DNA testing will be provided to the court within hopefully a short period of time.

We cannot take the men out of the compound until they are found guilty of something.

Aquarius-WY wrote:

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Isn't New Jersey a long way from Texas?
I suppose you have proof?? NOT!

I would bet one-to-ten odds that every one of those children are much better cared for than 80% of the kids in our American homes growing up without a mother. Mom is out working, chasing around, and making more money to blow on herself.

Binah wrote:

<quoted text>
The children are in prison and the mothers are in an emotional prison.
Free the children.
Arrest the guilty or take the men out of the compound so the children can go home.

Binah, we don't know that any of the men have committed any crime. We know that crimes have been committed, because of the underage mothers and pregnant girls found at the FLDS compound. These women and girls would not give interviewers information about who was related to whom or the paternity of the children involved. The DNA has been taken and must be analyzed to identify the fathers of the children of underage mothers. That will show which men have committed crimes. It is possible that some of the mothers of the underage pregnant girls or mothers will be charged as accessories.

The welfare fraud is another issue that will be taken up in another court.

comments from this site:
http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/distressed-...

I’ve been reading the hundreds of comments from outraged citizens at:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/free-the-inn...

Also, I’ve seen the video of Texas Foster Care system horrors at:

http://dayofpraise.blogspot.com/

Whew! What a situation!
~ Christian Prophet Friday April 18, 2008

Tooth4U wrote:

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Here here! Read my earlier post on the Forensic psychiatrists expert testimony before the court yesterday.... The 'families' need reunification and speacial prvisions and the children wil be harmed in foster care.
The Babbling Baptists have em.!! yikes!!!

hence the reason i say it is persecution and not prosecution

Bob wrote:

if their is child abuse then the ones responsible need to pay the price but you do not go in and remove every child from their parents ,this is the equivalent of going to an apartment complex and removing all the children because one or two parents in the building abused their child

There is a problem with that in this case Bob.

The children do not know who their biological parents are.

The news media keep referring to this as a case of polygamy. The fact is that polygamy DOES NOT EXIST in any state of the union. Nowhere does a state officially recognize polygamous unions such that it accords to them any of the rights and privileges of marriage.

Ever since the institution of marriage has been weakened and undermined by no-fault divorce, feminism, gay demands to marriage recognition and the nearly wholesale acceptance of the doctrine of "consenting adults", the state is pretty well disarmed to do much of anything against adult people who consent to live together and produce children.

To make the case that polygamous unions are detrimental to children and constitute a form of abuse will have as much success as the claim that gay adoption of children is detrimental to them. How long before there is a demand for marriage recognition for polygamous unions?

This is why a federal marriage amendment clearly stating that marriage is the union only of one man and one woman is so necessary as a first step to defending and reinforcing the vitally important social institution that is marriage.

Carol wrote:

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There is a problem with that in this case Bob.
The children do not know who their biological parents are.

so I don't know who my real father is and that is no crime

It would seem that there are many, too many, people in this forum that are jumping to hasty conclusions. Why not just be patient until the judge admits the case in court - I sure hope that the judge is not a woman - perish the thought.

Carol wrote:

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There is a problem with that in this case Bob.
The children do not know who their biological parents are.

what about adopted children that don't know who their biological parents are and that is not a crime

OK in the interest of trying to understand, let me see if I've got it. The issue that has you all upset is you all feel that we are losing our rights. That the government is using this and other things as an atempt to take away our civil liberties, Am I right so far? So Ruby ridge,( selling illegal sawed off shotguns) Waco, Stockpilling numerous automatic weapons, explosives etc. etc.) were terrible wrongs perputrated by an overzealous government bent on the destruction of your rights. Am I right so far? Let me ask you people this. To what aim is this grand conspericy of our government being perputrated. Were Clinton and Bush in this together? You seem to say that. So, if I am right then your hereos are Timothy Mcveigh, Norman Olson, "pastor" Joe Johnson, among others and Besides the bible, and the Bill of rights your favorite book is the Turner diaries. Am I right?

Bob wrote:

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your clue less you need to go back an read all my posts and you will find out I DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD but will stand up for the oppressed and for any to worship as they see fit and not as you see fit.
and go back to the post where i give the link to the constitution and pay close attention to the part about religion

The fact that you see it necessary to defend property owners and religions as opposed to children is unthinkable.

Bob wrote:

if their is child abuse then the ones responsible need to pay the price but you do not go in and remove every child from their parents ,this is the equivalent of going to an apartment complex and removing all the children because one or two parents in the building abused their child

Bob, Bob, Bob go back and read. That analagy isn't even close to having any relavence