Dr Zakir Naik invites Pope Benedict XVI for open interfaith dia...

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

Those who are saying bad for zakir naik and his references .why don't you go and expose him openly is his shows?go there make fun of him rather than sitting behind in veils.

You nuts? I have no intention to expose myself to a muslim mob, who get all violent when somebody exposes their religion and its newfound 'prophet' Zakir Naik!

Ashraf: The Vedas being evolutionary, monistic and catholic do not fix a limit on the number of prophets, every true prophet is seen as a manifestation of the supra cosmic Godhead (Absolute Consciousness, the Akhand Brahman). In this sense, the Vedic faith accepts prophets past, present and future.

If one looks for specific names one won't find them as the Vedas are more interested in propounding the nature and principles of the Godhead and its graduated Cosmic Manifestation.

With Jesus and Muhammad, it seems that their ancestors were Jews who had originated from Kashmir. A branch of the Jews during the time of the Jewish patriarch Abraham migrated to the region around the Kaaba and settled there. Incidentally, Kaaba is an ancient Sanskrit word that means Shiva Shrine and Kaabali is a synonym for Shiv, the aniconic stone or Linga is found in all Kaabas (Shiva Temples).

Hindus accept Muhammad as a Divine Incarnation but they're now changing their attitude in view of the fanaticism preached by the present version of the Quran. They think that all those horribly anti-secular and hate-filled messages found in the Quran are the original words of Muhammad but it goes without saying that a true prophet cannot be the author of such anti-existence messages.

The disciples of Rasool were loyal but ignorant and misunderstood his divine teachings and after his passing away came out with several competing versions of the Messages (Quran) with finally Caliph Uthman's version bing accepted as the "genuine" one.

Even among those Hindus who accept Muhammad as a true prophet (which he was), the acceptance is not one of awe since the philosophy of the Vedas, Upanishads,Sankhya, Gita,etc,are so profound that no other religious book can match their lofty insights.

In addition, later prophets (who came after Muhammad) like Chaitanya and Ramkrishna further captivated of the Hindu mind to a great extent (with their luminous teachings and divine leela_ together with the penetrating Yoga philosophy of modern illumined sages like Ramanna, Aurobindo, etc.

Thus, the Hindus have such a rich spiritual heritage to draw from that though they may bow before Muhammad or Jesus in keeping with the cosmic nature of their faith, yet they will not be bowled over by these personalities or be awed by the simple teachings of these Semitic prophets.

The aggressive evangelism and iconoclasm of the Muslims and Christians is having a negative effect on the Hindus who're are now fed up with the centuries-old onslaught on their faith and traditions by the barbaric (hypogamous and in-bred) followers of the Semitic religions and considering the major distortions that one finds in the Semitic holy books (the hate filled messages directed
against "non'believers", the Hindus are now drawing away from their famed secular outlook and have begun turning insular.

Joel Pastakia
Bombay, Ind
Whatever you wrote is baseless and senseless.And hindus don't believe in Muhammad (pbuh).
And there is only one quran and nobody had anyother Quran Usman(raa) just put it all together,as at that time many of the people had Quran but everybody did not have the full version so he got the full version that hazrat Hafsa she kept the whole Quran that was approved by the prophet in His time.And Usman was also among the loyal Hazrat Usman took it from hazrat Hafsa and thats the version used by all muslims till now.Theres no role of misinterpreting.Muslims at that time also and till today learn all the Quran by heart,so Those who had learnt it were another group,but they did not object cause it was the right version.

Joel,
I agree with almost all your observations. The following one needs something extra:

Joel Pastakia wrote:

The aggressive evangelism and iconoclasm of the Muslims and Christians is having a negative effect on the Hindus who're are now fed up with the centuries-old onslaught on their faith and traditions by the barbaric (hypogamous and in-bred) followers of the Semitic religions and considering the major distortions that one finds in the Semitic holy books (the hate filled messages directed
against "non'believers", the Hindus are now drawing away from their famed secular outlook and have begun turning insular.

I have a point to make here. Evangelism has been going on since long time, but I would say with far less aggression these days unlike the days of say Mughals when conversion was the secret or open agenda of most of the Mughal rulers. Such an open evangelism is not possible these days given the democratic norms and general awareness about each others' faith. I think the PRIME reason why Hindus are shedding their secular credentials is due to the vested interest of politicians.

Marco the atheist wrote:

<quoted text>
You nuts? I have no intention to expose myself to a muslim mob, who get all violent when somebody exposes their religion and its newfound 'prophet' Zakir Naik!

Just another excuse,you can't face Dr.Zakir.Accept the madness!

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

Joel Pastakia
Bombay, Ind
Whatever you wrote is baseless and senseless.And hindus don't believe in Muhammad (pbuh).
And there is only one quran and nobody had anyother Quran Usman(raa) just put it all together,as at that time many of the people had Quran but everybody did not have the full version so he got the full version that hazrat Hafsa she kept the whole Quran that was approved by the prophet in His time.And Usman was also among the loyal Hazrat Usman took it from hazrat Hafsa and thats the version used by all muslims till now.

Then.....

(i) Why did Uthman order the burning of several copies of Quran?
(ii) Why did the prophet himself permit seven different readings or versions of the Quran?

(And what happened to those seven readings? Uthman burnt it?)

Joel Pastakia wrote:

The aggressive evangelism and iconoclasm of the Muslims and Christians is having a negative effect on the Hindus who're are now fed up with the centuries-old onslaught on their faith and traditions by the barbaric (hypogamous and in-bred) followers of the Semitic religions and considering the major distortions that one finds in the Semitic holy books (the hate filled messages directed
against "non'believers", the Hindus are now drawing away from their famed secular outlook and have begun turning insular.

Are you explaining for the current killings/slaughter of minorities in india!Actually trying to prove you guys are doing right!HAHA

NVK Ashraf wrote:

<quoted text>
Then.....
(i) Why did Uthman order the burning of several copies of Quran?
(ii) Why did the prophet himself permit seven different readings or versions of the Quran?
(And what happened to those seven readings? Uthman burnt it?)

So that afterward people don't keep them as full version as they were not the full version.
2PRPHET KNEW HE HAD LOYAL PEOPLE,

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
Just another excuse,you can't face Dr.Zakir.

I'd have him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, without any trouble. I've already pointed out several of his major fallacies as well as his outright lies on this same thread.

Of course, he does not want to discuss with me anyway, as per his own admission. He only wants to discuss comparative religion, and I don't have one...

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
Accept the madness!

If you can assure me my safety, both before, during and probably for decades after the meeting, sure. But many of my remarks will be considered outright blasphemic, which both you and Zakir Naik will consider enough to pronounce a death penalty upon me. After all, that's what your koran demands for non-believers like me, and what your hadith describe for those that 'insult' your prophet.

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
So that afterward people don't keep them as full version as they were not the full version.

Who says so? Can you cite the reference? I would appreciate.

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
2PRPHET KNEW HE HAD LOYAL PEOPLE,

I didn't get it. Do you mean people were loyal those days and therefore he permitted seven readings?

Your answer is very vague.

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
So that afterward people don't keep them as full version as they were not the full version.
2PRPHET KNEW HE HAD LOYAL PEOPLE,

He was nothing more then a terrorist con man.

NVK Ashraf wrote:

<quoted text>
Who says so? Can you cite the reference? I would appreciate.
<quoted text>
I didn't get it. Do you mean people were loyal those days and therefore he permitted seven readings?
Your answer is very vague.

Post # 584,(Why is Holly Quran Still original?)
MUSLIM ASKS TO NVK Liar.
It is all about, your lie.
It is all about, your false claim to be a Muslim.
It is all about your bad intention to propagate false notion, prejudices against Islam to disrupt communal harmony of my nation.
Thus, you have to answer me.

What did your orthodox Muslim family say about Arabic word DAHAHA?

You said,“I can prove that I am a Muslim”. Then prove it now.

Muslim writes for the 5th or 6th time in different threads:

//You said,“I can prove that I am a Muslim”. Then prove it now.//

Tell me how many times I have to prove it. Have you not seen the link I provided? This is the fourth time I am giving you the proof.

See posting #11797 in this very page.... YOU BLIND.

NVK Ashraf wrote:

Muslim writes for the 5th or 6th time in different threads:
//You said,“I can prove that I am a Muslim”. Then prove it now.//
Tell me how many times I have to prove it. Have you not seen the link I provided? This is the fourth time I am giving you the proof.
See posting #11797 in this very page.... YOU BLIND.

Allah o Akbar,

Can any one hepl me?

How this guy manage to vanish the post # 11797?

NVK,

Realy you belongs to those people, who burns and rape Christians and Muslim in India,

Nobody else can go to this extent to lie.

Ooooooooooffffffffffff

NVK Ashraf wrote:

<quoted text>
Who says so? Can you cite the reference? I would appreciate.
<quoted text>
I didn't get it. Do you mean people were loyal those days and therefore he permitted seven readings?
Your answer is very vague.

No I meant Usman(raa) was among those people who could suggest something to prophet (pbuh)_and he would have appreciated.
And prophet allowed seven ways to read as they were merely accents of the same languge,first it was the qureshi accecnt of arabic that was allowed then aftrwards seven of the accnets were made allowed.

Marco the atheist wrote:

<quoted text>
I'd have him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, without any trouble. I've already pointed out several of his major fallacies as well as his outright lies on this same thread.
Of course, he does not want to discuss with me anyway, as per his own admission. He only wants to discuss comparative religion, and I don't have one...
<quoted text>
If you can assure me my safety, both before, during and probably for decades after the meeting, sure. But many of my remarks will be considered outright blasphemic, which both you and Zakir Naik will consider enough to pronounce a death penalty upon me. After all, that's what your koran demands for non-believers like me, and what your hadith describe for those that 'insult' your prophet.

oh br0 life and death is in God's hand,why dont u believe in Him?
And Noone has ever been killed in zakir naik's shows,and these shows dont happen in any muslim country,they tend to occur in a "secular" india.Which has hidus as majority.people even fight him in his shows but nobody ever got hurt,You tell me where do u get such things?
2nd thing you dont need to do it directly just send it through a muslim friend or via email. And if you have an objection you can state it why you need to resort to things like abusing prophet,you just assure you wont do it and i assure you no muslim would touch you.

To Muslim Girl:

But the Quran is filled with fiction of creation out of nothing, baseless assumptions, arrogance, hate verses directed aginst non-Muslims, hugging and kissing a black stone in the Kaaba, and so on.

Islam is based on 3 baseless asumptions (that're irrational and are not proven facts): The assumptions are -

1) An extra-cosmic God (Allah) exists who has no causal (cause-effect) connection with the universe but who yet some-how-or-the-other managed to manufacture the universe out of nothing,

2) An invisible angel named Jibril flew down from an extra-cosmic heaven and narrated ordinary, second hand, unoriginal messages to Muhammad,

3)After death, souls will go either to an extra-cosmic heaven where they'll frolic forever among shady fruit trees, rivers of honey, milk and wine and have sex with houris or that non-Muslim souls will be sent to an extra-cosmic hell where for all eternity to come they'll be roasted over burning logs or have boiling water poured down their backs.

My question to you is if God is extra-cosmic (meaning having no causal link with the universe), he'll have no other option but to create the universe out of nothing. Right?

So,is creation out of nothing possible?

You'll quote the Quran and answer that yes it's possible. But how? In the absence of a causal link, how is creation out of nothing possible? Give the detailed mechanism.

If heaven is a non-physical place, of what subtle materials and forces is it constituted of? How are these subtle materials and forces connected with the cosmos as unity underlies diversity?

If heaven is a spiritual or non-physical place, how is it that it is filled with gross physical substances like milk, honey, wine or sex pleasures, etc?

Clarification: How is the non-physical heaven or hell connected with the physical universe (or matter)?

MUSLIM GIRL wrote:

<quoted text>
And prophet allowed seven ways to read as they were merely accents of the same languge,first it was the qureshi accecnt of arabic that was allowed then aftrwards seven of the accnets were made allowed.

Are you sure that it was only a matter of accent? And not with respect to different use of words? 100% sure?

I disagree. Are you aware of this hadith?

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 601:
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:
“I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to that of mine. Allah's Apostle had taught it to me (in a different way). So, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I waited till he finished, then I tied his garment round his neck and seized him by it and brought him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I have heard him reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to the way you taught it to me." The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked Hisham to recite it. When he recited it, Allah s Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way." He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, "It was revealed in this way. The Qur'an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you."

This obviously does not mean only “accent”. You don’t catch hold of a person by his neck for his ‘accent’!

NVK Ashraf wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you sure that it was only a matter of accent? And not with respect to different use of words? 100% sure?
I disagree. Are you aware of this hadith?
Volume 3, Book 41, Number 601:
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:
“I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to that of mine. Allah's Apostle had taught it to me (in a different way). So, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I waited till he finished, then I tied his garment round his neck and seized him by it and brought him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I have heard him reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to the way you taught it to me." The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked Hisham to recite it. When he recited it, Allah s Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way." He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, "It was revealed in this way. The Qur'an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you."
This obviously does not mean only “accent”. You don’t catch hold of a person by his neck for his ‘accent’!

NVK "Hindu fanatic"

I got your trick.

How you manage to delete your own post.

By complaining abuse to the service provider.

This is the last time, i am posing this qustion to you.

Post # 584,(Why is Holly Quran Still original?)
MUSLIM ASKS TO NVK Liar.
It is all about, your lie.
It is all about, your false claim to be a Muslim.
It is all about your bad intention to propagate false notion, prejudices against Islam to disrupt communal harmony of my nation.
Thus, you have to answer me.

What did your orthodox Muslim family say about Arabic word DAHAHA?

You said,“I can prove that I am a Muslim”. Then prove it now.