Missouri Ban On Gay Fostering Overturned

reason--"michelle i am all for homosexuals coming out of their closets. i want to know who the homosexuals are so i can avoid contact with them."

You think it might rub off?

"I would ask that homosexuals paint an H on their foreheads. or wear a simple medal."

Or a pink triangle, so you can round them all up, right?

"the mother you speak of is not well informed."

You are the most poorly informed person in this group, which boggles the mind given some of the competition.

"aids can be passed through any body fluids. kissing could pass the disease."

Lie.

Please tell us what hate group told you this loony lie? They should be made to wear a "L" on their forehead, or perhaps a small medal.

"tell her to read up on the danger to her children."

People who read know that you're full of beans and that gays are no threat to children at all.

"your posts that i have read seem to be all the same ideas. you are a liberal and so your views differ from mine."

Well, I'm not a liberal, but being a liberal beats being a bigot all to heck.

"in this case i see a danger to our children that can be avoided"

There is nothing remotely dangerous to children in being around gay people.

"and so i say that gay men should not be allowed to foster or adopt children."

And this shows how deep the ignorance behind that rule is.

Faithful follower of God--"I never left I just continue to read this mess It gives me a headache. I must say I let Darren win a battle. I stopped thinking good thoughts and thought only of hurting Darren as he has hurt many."

Lie. I haven't hurt anyone, nor have I advocatted thinking of hurting anyone.

"He told a story of a gay man that his family turned his back on, we all have stories to back up why we feel the way we do."

The difference is I ALSO have facts and logic behind what I've said.

"That is called living life. Now I am going back to living mine because glueing myself to a computer to argue something that we will never see eye to eye on is stupid on my part."

ONLY if you refuse to listen to reason or learn facts. People with a remotely open mind CAN learn and CAN change their minds on, and CAN find agreement with those with whom they once disagreed. If you say we'll "never" see eye to eye it's because you KNOW how closed minded you are, and you stubbornly REFUSE to learn or listen to anyone.

"Darren sorry that things got out of hand."

Thank you. I'm glad even though you don't agree with me you can at least see that I'm a human being and that the vicious attacks against me did hurt and did make me angry. I appreciate that. I hope you'll someday realize how much discrimination and bigotry in our society hurt people, learn that being gay isn't a choice and isn't immoral or wrong or unnatural, and that they should just be treated like anyone else. I really do. I know a lot of people who are very openminded on this stuff now who used to be terribly homophobic. People can change.

"I still don't see eye to eye with you. Tear apart my opinion if you will I won't be here to listen."

Nobody learns anything, and mankind never advances, if you won't even listen.
But at least you see I'm tearing apart opinions, and not people.

Shelia wrote:

80% of Americans say they are Christians. Some of them are starting to stand up for what they believe is right. If you love someone and they are doing something that will harm them, you try to get them to stop. Your remarks do not change the truth. Saying something is a sin is not judging.
Jesus is the way the truth and the light!

Being gay harms no one, and being gay isn't a sin. Other than that, you may have a point, I suppose. I hope someone will tell some of these people that being homophobic and promoting discrimination and hate and bigotry is wrong and hurts people.

Mogan Dave wrote:

<quoted text>
The question was why.
Living a gay lifestyle would seem to require a person to be more open-minded.
Why do you say that?

Being gay isn't a lifestyle. And there are plenty of open-minded straight people, and some unbelievably inflexible and closed-minded gay people. There are racist gay people, stupid gay people, smart gay people, old, young, black, white...they're just like everyone else.

bob wrote:

Sorry to correct you, but the bible says it is against gods law for
Let's go back to that time when there were no gay men. Gay or not, Sin is sin. You do not get an exemption because Gay men were not mentioned. A perversion is a perversion. Gay is wrong, Gay is perverse. It is sin. Those who do not repent of sin will die and go to hell; unless they turn from their sinful ways. That plain, that simple.

There was never a time when there were no gay men. They've been around since time began. Being gay is NOT wrong, and it is NOT a perversion, and it is NOT a sin. They cannot "repent" from it, it isn't a sin NEEDING repentence and a person who is gay CANNOT change it. They will NOT go to hell, and it is a hateful dispicable thing to say they will, with not a REMOTELY reasonable Biblical excuse. The Bible DOES NOT say being gay is a sin. Again, in an EXTREMELY small number of VERY obscure verses specific sex acts are mentioned, surrounded by verses about polyester and mixed-breed cattle, NONE of which are followed by anyone today.
If you just hate gays, that's your problem. God doesn't. Being gay is not a sin.

doughboy529 wrote:

<quoted text>Hi Darren. Please define to me what a Christian is. Also do you think God accepts the gay lifestyle? I apologize if these are repeat questions.

Don't apologize for asking questions, it's fine.
A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and accepts him as Lord and Savior while asking forgiveness for his sins.(Please understand that I'm 40 and southern and a little set in my ways...when I say "his" I mean by implication "or hers" and do not truly believe that God's a "he" although I still call God "Him" for sake of conversation.")
Being gay is not a lifestyle, there are as many "lifestyles" as there are people. No, God does NOT view being gay as a sin. A gay person who has sex with lots of people he barely knows? Yes. And the same is true for a straight person who does the same thing. A gay person in a loving committed relationship? Absolutely not a sin in God's eyes. He does accept it, He created it. He understands it far better than we people do.

You are the most poorly informed person in this group, which boggles the mind given some of the competition.


SOME OF THE COMPETITION? What are you talking about? Are you honestly saying that these posts are a result of competition? I was under the impression they were "opinions"...somethi ng of which we all have. AND have a right to express.

Daughter of One wrote:

These were all said by you Darren to me. I cut and copied them.
"I don't like you, you're a rotten human being."
"You're pathetic."
"You're a dispicable excuse for a human being."
"That someone this intentionally ignorant is raising children is scary."
"I don't believe you. I think you're lying, or else she doesn't know what's going on here."
"Then you're a worse human than I thought, if you'd treat someone you love this poorly. But, again, I don't believe you."
"YOUR trash is rancid."
"And while you deserve to have a gay child to see how screwed up you are, they don't deserve it"
"No, she sounds like an incredibly rotten person. The way she treats her mother, the constant lies she spreads here, and the notion that she ignores science and only goes by the radical right view of what the Bible says...that's not a good person."
"Up yours"
And all of this is just on page 75.

And would you like to share with us what it was that was being responded to, or just be one-sided about it?

I tried really, really hard to turn down the hostility, and you seem to WANT this to be as ugly and hostile as possible. If you want to claim that this all came because of NOTHING you'd done, nothing remotely unkind or bigoted or hateful...well, we can all read. Yes, I got angry and yeah, I said some thing I probably wish I hadn't. However, the incredibly bigotry and hate dripping off this place should outrage ANY decent person, even without the amount of personal abuse I've been receiving.
So, you can decide if it gets toned down, or if you enjoy just bashing the daylights out of me. You seem to find the trolls really amusing, if you've no interest in grown up conversation and just want to pile on with them, I can ignore you just as easily as them. One minute you seem to want things to be civil, the next you're dragging stuff from several days ago up for no reason but to try to make me look bad, without context or reason.

LadyLawDog wrote:

<quoted text>
I slung mud??? Since when is quoting the Bible 'slinging mud'?

When it is done for the purposes of promoting hate and discrimination. However, it is pretty laughable that you've posted nothing whatsoever but Bible verses. Again, if you guys really want I'm as capable of going back through old posts as anyone else. I see no particular gain in doing so. I'm not here to bash people, never have been, I'd love to see the conversation stick to the topic at hand...but when attacked I will defend myself.

Darren wrote:

Faithful follower of God--"I never left I just continue to read this mess It gives me a headache. I must say I let Darren win a battle. I stopped thinking good thoughts and thought only of hurting Darren as he has hurt many."
Lie. I haven't hurt anyone, nor have I advocatted thinking of hurting anyone.
"He told a story of a gay man that his family turned his back on, we all have stories to back up why we feel the way we do."
The difference is I ALSO have facts and logic behind what I've said.
"That is called living life. Now I am going back to living mine because glueing myself to a computer to argue something that we will never see eye to eye on is stupid on my part."
ONLY if you refuse to listen to reason or learn facts. People with a remotely open mind CAN learn and CAN change their minds on, and CAN find agreement with those with whom they once disagreed. If you say we'll "never" see eye to eye it's because you KNOW how closed minded you are, and you stubbornly REFUSE to learn or listen to anyone.
"Darren sorry that things got out of hand."
Thank you. I'm glad even though you don't agree with me you can at least see that I'm a human being and that the vicious attacks against me did hurt and did make me angry. I appreciate that. I hope you'll someday realize how much discrimination and bigotry in our society hurt people, learn that being gay isn't a choice and isn't immoral or wrong or unnatural, and that they should just be treated like anyone else. I really do. I know a lot of people who are very openminded on this stuff now who used to be terribly homophobic. People can change.
"I still don't see eye to eye with you. Tear apart my opinion if you will I won't be here to listen."
Nobody learns anything, and mankind never advances, if you won't even listen.
But at least you see I'm tearing apart opinions, and not people.

Actually, you have hurt people (me included) but that's neither here nor there. You said yourself that you get so angry and that you know you go overboard. You are so hell-bent on defending homosexuals feelings (which I applaud you for), but while you are defending them, your own words hurt other people. If you want people to seriously listen to you, quit being so hurtful.

Darren wrote:

<quoted text>
And would you like to share with us what it was that was being responded to, or just be one-sided about it?
I tried really, really hard to turn down the hostility, and you seem to WANT this to be as ugly and hostile as possible. If you want to claim that this all came because of NOTHING you'd done, nothing remotely unkind or bigoted or hateful...well, we can all read. Yes, I got angry and yeah, I said some thing I probably wish I hadn't. However, the incredibly bigotry and hate dripping off this place should outrage ANY decent person, even without the amount of personal abuse I've been receiving.
So, you can decide if it gets toned down, or if you enjoy just bashing the daylights out of me. You seem to find the trolls really amusing, if you've no interest in grown up conversation and just want to pile on with them, I can ignore you just as easily as them. One minute you seem to want things to be civil, the next you're dragging stuff from several days ago up for no reason but to try to make me look bad, without context or reason.

YOU go look it up. Never once did I call you a dispicable human being. Never once did I say up yours. Never once did I say it would be scary for you to raise kids, and on and on and on.

Now, from the very beginning, if you wouldnt have attacked my grandmother, which you did from the very beginning, I would have probably took note on everything you said and processed it. I might not have agreed with it, but I would have respected your opinion. But when you attack someone who is in NO way a bigot, your opinion from there on out meant nothing to me.

And as far as being civil and not being civil, I've been the same towards you from the very beginning. You are the one who keeps going back and forth.

LadyLawDog wrote:

<quoted text>
You are what many people call a 'sidewalk' Christian .. your BEHAVIOR does NOT match what your filthy mouth is spewing. Calling names, putting people down, calling them liars when they give an OPINION, etc. By the way .. just exactly 'how' is an opinion a LIE???????

First off, AGAIN, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to question my faith.
Secondly...MY FILTHY MOUTH??? Are you KIDDING? Given the amount of abuse I've taken and the disusting comments polluting this thing, I'm the last person for that lecture. I don't like curse words and don't use them. I've used maybe one "Damn" in the whole thing and given the amount of abuse I've taken that's shown remarkable restraint.
And finally, I have NEVER called anyone a liar here. I have NEVER called something a lie because it is an opinion with which I disagree. I call something a lie because it's a lie.
My "behavior" is to fight against bigotry and discrimination, and if that's not the act of a Christian than the sky is green and grass is blue. I'll remind you again the words upon which I live my life...blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice.
The ONLY thing I want is simple equality and justice, and for the truth to be told. These people in here promoting this ignorant lie that people choose to be gay, and do so in order to promote them being treated like trash, defending them against this sort of slop IS the act a Christian should be taking just as standing up to racism and sexism is what we should be doing.

Darren wrote:

<quoted text>
And would you like to share with us what it was that was being responded to, or just be one-sided about it?
I tried really, really hard to turn down the hostility, and you seem to WANT this to be as ugly and hostile as possible. If you want to claim that this all came because of NOTHING you'd done, nothing remotely unkind or bigoted or hateful...well, we can all read. Yes, I got angry and yeah, I said some thing I probably wish I hadn't. However, the incredibly bigotry and hate dripping off this place should outrage ANY decent person, even without the amount of personal abuse I've been receiving.
So, you can decide if it gets toned down, or if you enjoy just bashing the daylights out of me. You seem to find the trolls really amusing, if you've no interest in grown up conversation and just want to pile on with them, I can ignore you just as easily as them. One minute you seem to want things to be civil, the next you're dragging stuff from several days ago up for no reason but to try to make me look bad, without context or reason.

And as far as dragging things up from several days ago, YOU are the one who asked me to show you what you were saying to me.

And quite frankly, I really don't care if you ignore me or not just like I dont care if you are on this thread or not.

But when YOU ask me to show you the hurtful words you have said towards me, don't turn it around on ME and say I'm dragging up old stuff.

LadyLawDog--"Oh get off it! Most gay people don't resort to name-calling,"

I haven't "resorted" to anything. I've been attacked and defended myself, I have called bigots bigots...if you're concerned about namecalling, why haven't you said a WORD about the names I've been called? This is more hypocricy, people attacking me while ignoring stuff done TO me that's ten times worse.

"telling people they are liars"

I haven't done this. I call a lie a lie.

"simply because they have differing opinions, etc."

Lie.

See? Perfect example. This is NOT a differing opinion. I'm FINE with differing opinions. This is a LIE. It's not true. I don't EVER say a differing opinion is a lie. I say a lie is a lie, and the people telling them getting mad about it doesn't change that.

"and they treat others respectfully."

LOL! Well, I guess that's better than a bad stereotype, but it's still a stereotype. Gays are no more "all respectful" than they're "all rude" or "all this or that."
And, AGAIN, I've tried to give the respect I've gotten, and in most cases a good deal more.

"You, on the other hand have been RUDE as hell,"

Being made very angry by bigotry and hate is not a bad thing. If this is just about your concern about rudeness, this is a ridiculously laughable statement. You think rudeness is FINE if it's aimed at me, think trolls being brought in solely to harrass me is hilarious, but that my conduct needs to be treated very differently. What hypocrisy. Say this to ANYONE else here and we can talk about my supposed rudeness. If you think I'm the only one, you have no credibility whatsoever.

"extremely abusive"

My rear. I most certainly am nowhere CLOSE to as abusive to others as many have been to me. The only "abuse" I've given is to take a tough stand against bigotry and discrimination and hate and lies. And I will continue to do so, and continued attempts to bully me out of here will fail.

"and no, not at all Christian in your treatment of others."

Still a vicious lie, and horribly inappropriate. You have NO right to question my faith in the Lord Jesus. None. That's just dispicable, and makes your whining about my supposed "rudeness" nothing more than more championship level hypocrisy. Physician, heal thyself.

"First off, AGAIN, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to question my faith."

This is quite funny considering you question everybody's faith on here, Darren.

Daughter of One--"One more thing before I go, I would like Darren to answer a question for me. You say that God made people heterosexual and God made people homosexual."

That's right. Just as He made some left handed and some right handed.

"That they are born this way."

There is no question about it. There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence to which this is the ONLY remotely reasonable conclusion. It is the way that mental health professional have seen it for DECADES, and there's no remotely credible evidence otherwise.
And the idea that they all just choose to be gay is too dumb for words, nobody with the slightest bit of knowlege of the topic thinks that. It's a complete lie borne SOLELY for the purpose of harrassment and discrimination.

"That you are either born attracted to women or born attracted to men. What about bisexuals? They are attracted to both men and women. Were they born this way, too? Were they born with both genes?"

That's an interesting question and the honest answer is I don't know. I really don't. There are certainly levels as you get deeper into the topic that are still unanswered. Maybe they were born with both genes. Maybe they're trying to be straight for the sake of what people think but can't keep their homosexuality completely hidden. Maybe they just follow the old joke about having twice the chance of getting a date. I really don't know.
I do know that most of the people I've run into who say they're bisexual, when pressed on the matter, are almost entirely one or the other but enjoy the simple sexual activity for recreation of "crossing over" from time to time, something of which I've already said I disapprove from a moral standpoint.

"And if so, how do they chose which one they should go with because you and I both know it is wrong for somebody to be having intercourse with two people at the same time. At least, I hope that you know this is wrong."

Again, you know perfectly well based upon what I've said that I do. I've been real consistant with this, sex belongs, in my opinion, within a monogomous committed faithful relationship, ideally a marriage, assuming gays are allowed to marry.

reason--"louise louise louise!! who cares if gays are born with horns or elephant trunks?"
The FACT that they're born that way makes your fight to discriminate against them all the more unjust. You're right, it SHOULDN'T matter that much, it's wrong to treat them rotten regardless.
"the people of the state voted in a majority that homosexuals should not rear children."
They're wrong and stupid. There's not a remotely good reason for it but ignorance and bigotry, and the rights of a minority cannot be taken away by a vote of the majority. The majority of this nation once thought slavery was OK and that women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
"it is a law of the state."
A law which should be thrown out, although we're arguing what's right, not what's the law.
"you really must consider that the people voted as they did for a good reason."
No, you really must NOT. There is NO good reason for this. It's out of fear and ignorance and nothing else. It's bad for the kids and bad for families. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly there is NOTHING dangerous about having gays around kids. There is NOTHING that makes them any less able as parents. There are so many kids who desperately need a home and to deny them a family who would love them and a home because of bigotry is so wrong.
"i am narrow minded when i think of what can happen to children reared by gay men."
You are narrow minded when you REFUSE to face the reality that children raised by gay people are at NO RISK. They are not wanting to adopt or foster kids so they can molest them, straight people are JUST as likely and that's stuff a decent background check can find out. And not that it should matter, but kids raised by gay parents aren't even any more likely to be gay.
"i am not opposed to homosexuals and could not care less what danger they inflict upon one another."
The hatred of that statement shows how truly disgusting this has gotten. You obviously ARE opposed to homosexuals, and any decent person should care about other people. However, gays are not "inflicting" anything on one another. AIDS is spread by promiscuous sex by straight OR gay people. I doubt seriously the people who are still out there spreading it are among those trying to adopt children. They are the people who go out to bars every night and don't want a regular partner, much less children.
"i am concerned for the children only."
IF true, which I doubt seriously, you need to start showing it. If you're concerned about the children, LEARN a little, starting with GAYS ARE NO THREAT TO CHILDREN. There are children desperate for a loving home and you're denying them that because of ignorance and bigotry, and that's wrong.

reason wrote:

<quoted text>
michelle you liberal ---
do you know anything about foster parenting? at best foster parents are not nearly as good as real parents.
but when you add in the danger to children posed by gay men the child is better off in an intitution safe from disease.

Gays are NO threat to children. Foster parents are a DARN sight better than NO foster parents, and to say kids are better off in an institution shows why I sneered when you said you cared about the kids. You obviously don't. Those kids have good homes waiting for them and you want them kept out.
And I know plenty about foster parenting.

And finally, I have NEVER called anyone a liar here. I have NEVER called something a lie because it is an opinion with which I disagree. I call something a lie because it's a lie.

OMG...just by making that statement I think you lost ANY of the little credibility you had out here.

GO READ YOUR OWN POST...THE WORD LIE FALLS OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AS EASILY AS ALL THE OTHER GARBAGE YOU SPEW!! And just because YOU think something is a LIE doesn't mean we MUST BOW DOWN TO YOU AND COMPLY!!! Just an earthy reminder...YOU ARE NOT GOD SO STOP ACTING LIKE IT!!

Darren wrote:

LadyLawDog--"Oh get off it! Most gay people don't resort to name-calling,"
I haven't "resorted" to anything. I've been attacked and defended myself, I have called bigots bigots...if you're concerned about namecalling, why haven't you said a WORD about the names I've been called? This is more hypocricy, people attacking me while ignoring stuff done TO me that's ten times worse.
"telling people they are liars"
I haven't done this. I call a lie a lie.
"simply because they have differing opinions, etc."
Lie.
See? Perfect example. This is NOT a differing opinion. I'm FINE with differing opinions. This is a LIE. It's not true. I don't EVER say a differing opinion is a lie. I say a lie is a lie, and the people telling them getting mad about it doesn't change that.
"and they treat others respectfully."
LOL! Well, I guess that's better than a bad stereotype, but it's still a stereotype. Gays are no more "all respectful" than they're "all rude" or "all this or that."
And, AGAIN, I've tried to give the respect I've gotten, and in most cases a good deal more.
"You, on the other hand have been RUDE as hell,"
Being made very angry by bigotry and hate is not a bad thing. If this is just about your concern about rudeness, this is a ridiculously laughable statement. You think rudeness is FINE if it's aimed at me, think trolls being brought in solely to harrass me is hilarious, but that my conduct needs to be treated very differently. What hypocrisy. Say this to ANYONE else here and we can talk about my supposed rudeness. If you think I'm the only one, you have no credibility whatsoever.
"extremely abusive"
My rear. I most certainly am nowhere CLOSE to as abusive to others as many have been to me. The only "abuse" I've given is to take a tough stand against bigotry and discrimination and hate and lies. And I will continue to do so, and continued attempts to bully me out of here will fail.
"and no, not at all Christian in your treatment of others."
Still a vicious lie, and horribly inappropriate. You have NO right to question my faith in the Lord Jesus. None. That's just dispicable, and makes your whining about my supposed "rudeness" nothing more than more championship level hypocrisy. Physician, heal thyself.

We are only calling YOU what you have called US