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Letter to the editor: War's costs include lost opportunities

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Andy Johnson
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#364
May 12, 2008
 
X Chambersburg Resident wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said that I agreed with Bush's decisions...but to say that he lies all the time? Well, using that line of thinking when someone feeds you information, I guess every time you are wrong then you lie...
Again...all I see/hear is "Republican EVIL, BAD, etc. etc. etc."
Evil is as Evil does. Torture and war crimes are evil. Bigotry and racism is evil. Spitting on the poor is evil. Freed and avaraice are evil. Wanting a fascist police state founded on militarism and imperialism is evil. Imitating the Nazis is evil. Evil is as Evil does.

Joined: Apr 8, 2008
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#365
May 12, 2008
 
X Chambersburg Resident wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right...I have leaned one way or the other...but not all the time. The people on here that have no credibility (in my opinion) are the one's that blame the Republicans for EVERYTHING, and claim that the Democrats are the countries savior!!
For what it's worth I'm trying to not use the descriptor 'Republican' very much anymore. In particular I'm trying to find more accurate labels for the extremist minority within the Grand Old Party. So I'm using descriptors like neo-con and RWA. I have been criticized for that, but I’m going to keep trying.

Both parties have their extreme elements. Neither party is all one thing. I don’t like the neo-con philosophy, but I don’t think it is right to blame all Republicans for what a minority has done. So when I use words like neo-con and RWA, please keep that in mind

Joined: Apr 8, 2008
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#366
May 12, 2008
 
X Chambersburg Resident wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't agree with you that it would help the insurance corporations a..... Clinton did nothing....
I think I remember Hillary and Bill trying to do a major reform of health care. As I recall she was naive about it, and got hammered like a 10 penny nail.

I did not vote for her and she’s not my favorite person, but I do think she deserves credit for trying to reform health care.
X Chambersburg Resident
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#367
May 12, 2008
 
Andy Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not after the racist sociopathic killer vote. I'm after the I-don't-want-to-live-in-a-fasc ist-police-state-ruled-by-homi cidal-maniacs vote.
So, because I'm more of a conservative, I'm a racist sociopathic killer now...along with all Republicans in your view...wow...you are really something...

You are so closed minded that I'm not going to even respond to you anymore. NOT because you win,(Because you don't!) but because you show that you have no respect for ANYONE that does not think like you.

Good luck with your campaign...hope you have enough funding on your own. Hope some of these posts you've put on here don't come back to haunt you...
Andy Johnson
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#368
May 12, 2008
 
falasha wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do we need to LISTEN to the republican side? We are living with the fallout of the republican side. We don't have to wonder what would happen if republican ideals were put into action. We know! We are where we are today because of republican ideals. We are in the shitter.
Yes, I agree. They attack anyone who criticizes their repugnant policy positions then demand that we tolerate and even accept their criminal behaviour. It's the manipulative nature of sociopathy coming forward.

Interesting little sidenote...when the Nazis came to power in Germany, the first people they threw into the camps were liberals and homosexuals. Fascism never changes.
falasha
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#369
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I remember Hillary and Bill trying to do a major reform of health care. As I recall she was naive about it, and got hammered like a 10 penny nail.
I did not vote for her and she’s not my favorite person, but I do think she deserves credit for trying to reform health care.
What happened was Bob Dole voted against it. Republicans told him that if he voted for it he could not be president.
X Chambersburg Resident
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#370
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I remember Hillary and Bill trying to do a major reform of health care. As I recall she was naive about it, and got hammered like a 10 penny nail.
I did not vote for her and she’s not my favorite person, but I do think she deserves credit for trying to reform health care.
True...this was tried in the first year of his presidency...but he had another 7 years to give it a try and didn't. It's a tough topic. I don't think politics is going to solve it on it's own when you're talking about private industry. That's how all corporations are. Sucks for the population...
falasha
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#371
May 12, 2008
 
Andy Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>
Evil is as Evil does. Torture and war crimes are evil. Bigotry and racism is evil. Spitting on the poor is evil. Freed and avaraice are evil. Wanting a fascist police state founded on militarism and imperialism is evil. Imitating the Nazis is evil. Evil is as Evil does.
YES! And insulting people on Topix is evil.
falasha
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#372
May 12, 2008
 
X Chambersburg Resident wrote:
<quoted text>
True...this was tried in the first year of his presidency...but he had another 7 years to give it a try and didn't. It's a tough topic. I don't think politics is going to solve it on it's own when you're talking about private industry. That's how all corporations are. Sucks for the population...
Yep. It's hard work.
UThink
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#373
May 12, 2008
 
There is nothing new in a government lying to their people to start a war. Indeed because most
people prefer living in peace to bloody and horrific death in war, any government that desires to initiate a war usually lies to their people to create the illusion that support for the war is the only possible choice they can make. Eleven days before President Bush's January 28, 2003, State of the Union address in which he said
that the US learned from British intelligence that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Africa - an explosive claim that helped pave the way to war - the State Department told the CIA that the intelligence the uranium claims were based upon were forgeries, according to a newly declassified State Department memo.

The revelation of the warning from the closely guarded State Department memo is the first piece of hard evidence and the strongest to date that the Bush administration manipulated and ignored intelligence information in their zeal to win public support for invading Iraq.

X Chambersburg Resident
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#374
May 12, 2008
 
UThink wrote:
There is nothing new in a government lying to their people to start a war. Indeed because most
people prefer living in peace to bloody and horrific death in war, any government that desires to initiate a war usually lies to their people to create the illusion that support for the war is the only possible choice they can make. Eleven days before President Bush's January 28, 2003, State of the Union address in which he said
that the US learned from British intelligence that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Africa - an explosive claim that helped pave the way to war - the State Department told the CIA that the intelligence the uranium claims were based upon were forgeries, according to a newly declassified State Department memo.
The revelation of the warning from the closely guarded State Department memo is the first piece of hard evidence and the strongest to date that the Bush administration manipulated and ignored intelligence information in their zeal to win public support for invading Iraq.
Link please...

Additionally, this doesn't prove that Bush lied at all. It DOES prove that he had people on his staff that needed to be fired and that he could not trust to tell him correct information. In other words, he was WRONG about some of the people he had surrounding him. Could they have been afraid to tell him? Yes...but they still should have told him if this information was true or not. There are too many other witnesses to these types of meetings and I'm sure someone on the cabinet would have come forward by now and said that the president "lied" if that happened.
X Chambersburg Resident
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#375
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
<quoted text>
For what it's worth I'm trying to not use the descriptor 'Republican' very much anymore. In particular I'm trying to find more accurate labels for the extremist minority within the Grand Old Party. So I'm using descriptors like neo-con and RWA. I have been criticized for that, but I’m going to keep trying.
Both parties have their extreme elements. Neither party is all one thing. I don’t like the neo-con philosophy, but I don’t think it is right to blame all Republicans for what a minority has done. So when I use words like neo-con and RWA, please keep that in mind
Note well taken...and I'll cut back on the:
!!!!!!!!!!
Andy Johnson
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#376
May 12, 2008
 
UThink wrote:
There is nothing new in a government lying to their people to start a war. Indeed because most
people prefer living in peace to bloody and horrific death in war, any government that desires to initiate a war usually lies to their people to create the illusion that support for the war is the only possible choice they can make. Eleven days before President Bush's January 28, 2003, State of the Union address in which he said
that the US learned from British intelligence that Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Africa - an explosive claim that helped pave the way to war - the State Department told the CIA that the intelligence the uranium claims were based upon were forgeries, according to a newly declassified State Department memo.
The revelation of the warning from the closely guarded State Department memo is the first piece of hard evidence and the strongest to date that the Bush administration manipulated and ignored intelligence information in their zeal to win public support for invading Iraq.
Then there's Cheney's secret Energy Task Force meetings where they were carving out the Iraqi oil fields on the map long before 9/11. Or the State Dept drawing up plans to privatize the Iraqi economy months before the invasion.

Invade, occupy, and sell it off. Corporate piracy using a national military.
Lil John
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#378
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
Lil John says he hates all .orgs
http://www.dav.org belongs to Disabled American Veterans
Lil John hates Disabled American Veterans.
ONCE again the moron Misrepresents the statement made. You should know what .org's we were talking about. The daily kos is one of them . If you don't know at this late stage what that is then you are truly a novice.

Tell us again how Jim baker controls congress to get the ISG commission and not to mention that it was bi-partisan.

Tell us again how Bush was anointed to be president when it takes elections.

You are nothing more than a flamer.

I don't believe you worked for any political party due when you are so naive about what really happens in this country.
Lil John
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#379
May 12, 2008
 
GOTCHA wrote:
OR;
Lie #6 - Weapons of Mass Destruction - Bush insisted that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction but his "evidence" consisted mostly of forged documents, plagiarized student papers, and vague satellite photos. The United Nations was on the ground in Iraq and could find nothing. After extensive searches Bush was finally forced to admit that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction.
Lie #7 - Mobile Weapons Labs - Bush and his team repeatedly claimed that Iraq possessed mobile weapons labs capable of producing anthrax. Colin Powell showed diagrams of them at his speech before the UN to justify invading Iraq. These claims originated from Curveball, a discredited Iraqi informer who fed Bush many of the stories related to WMD. On May 29, 2003, two small trailers matching the description were found in Iraq. A team of bio-weapons experts examined the trailers and concluded they were simply designed to produce hydrogen for weather balloons. But, for over a year, Bush claimed these were part of Iraq's bio-weapons program. The expert's report was suppressed and only recently made public.[WashPost][ABC]
Bush wanted so much to convince people of the need to invade Iraq that the White House set up a secret team in the Pentagon to create evidence. The Office of Special Plans routinely rewrote the CIA's intelligence estimates on Iraq's weapons programs, removing caveats such as "likely," "probably" and "may" as a way of depicting the country as an imminent threat. They also used unreliable sources to create reports that ultimately proved to be false.[Mother Jones][New Yorker][Wikipedia]
By lying to Congress, Bush violated US Laws related to Fraud and False Statements, Title 18, Chapter 47, Section 1001 and Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Title 18, Chapter 19, Section 371.
Resources
"Inquiry into the Decision to Invade Iraq" by the Cooperative History Research Commons (Excellent!)
Chronology of Illegal War on impeachforpeace.org
From your hero john Kerry U.S Senator
Kerry Said Threat Of Saddam Hussein’s WMD Is Real.“The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.”(Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10171)
he read the same reports as others and came to the same conclusion as bush. Then being the one with 20/20 hindsight and Political expediency did he tried to disavow this statement like the true politician he is.
Oh yea, there are other statements he made as well stating that there was WMD in Iraq.
A failure of the intelligence community does not mean that anybody lied except Saddam when he refused the U.N. inspectors access to sites perpetuating the lie that he had WMD.
I can see you've used real sources for you information like Mother.org etc. Geez.
Lil John
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#380
May 12, 2008
 
Gee , do you mean somebody else believed in their WMD?
Operqtion desert fox 1998'

The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16-December 19, 1998 by the United States and United Kingdom. These strikes were undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.

Clinton administration officials said the aim of the mission was to "degrade" Iraq's ability to manufacture and use weapons of mass destruction, not to eliminate it. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked about the distinction while the operation was going on:[5]

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright Said<>

"I don't think we're pretending that we can get everything, so this is - I think - we are being very honest about what our ability is. We are lessening, degrading his ability to use this. The weapons of mass destruction are the threat of the future. I think the president explained very clearly to the American people that this is the threat of the 21st century.[...][W]hat it means is that we know we can't get everything, but degrading is the right word."

So you can take you Mother.org and put ot where it really belongs!!!!
falasha
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#381
May 12, 2008
 
It's about both; tyranny AND oil. Oh, and I forgot stupidity.

Joined: Apr 8, 2008
Comments: 690
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#382
May 12, 2008
 
Lil John says he hates all .orgs
http://www.dav.org belongs to Disabled American Veterans
Lil John hates Disabled American Veterans.
Lil John
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#383
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
Lil John says he hates all .orgs
http://www.dav.org belongs to Disabled American Veterans
Lil John hates Disabled American Veterans.
Shows your immaturity, doesn't it! You worked for a political campaign? NO wonder you aren't working there this time around!

BTW When did Jim Baker run congress like you said? You seem to leave that question unanswered.

What did the Rep take on his pizza , pizza man, Oh, I forgot you were a volunteer right? LOLL
Lil John
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#384
May 12, 2008
 
Florian wrote:
Lil John says he hates all .orgs
http://www.dav.org belongs to Disabled American Veterans
Lil John hates Disabled American Veterans.
ONCE again the moron Misrepresents the statement made. You should know what .org's we were talking about. The daily kos is one of them . If you don't know at this late stage what that is then you are truly a novice.

Tell us again how Jim baker controls congress to get the ISG commission and not to mention that it was bi-partisan.

Tell us again how Bush was anointed to be president when it takes elections.

You are nothing more than a flamer.

I don't believe you worked for any political party due when you are so naive about what really happens in this country.

If I have to say it again!!!!
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