BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting Obama's citizen...

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama 's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's ... Full Story

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#99772 Aug 14, 2012
Old Goat wrote:
<quoted text>Correct! Obama was born a citizen of his father's country and owed allegiance, thereto!
All persons born in the US and not subject to any foreign power are citizens, thereof!
Our Constitution does not, nor has it ever recognized a dual-citizenship or allegiance.
A visiting alien maintains the same citizenship/allegiance as does an ambassador to their country of origin.
Obama has never been naturalized, not a citizen of the US.
Sorry, BirfoonBoy, the President was born a citizen in this country, a natural born citizen. A subject OF a foreign power per operation of foreign law does not make one "subject TO a foreign power."

No. A visiting alien can be prosecuted for treason, unlike a foreign ambassador. The visiting alien owes temporary allegiance to the host country.

"§ 439 Treason is a breach of allegiance, and it will be observed that the statute restrict the definition of the offense to persons owing allegiance to the United States.
This allegiance may be one of full citizenship, or one based upon the presence of an alien, and the commission of the treasonable act, within the territorial limits of the United States. In an earlier chapter it has been pointed out that an alien within the territorial limits of a State, whether domiciled or not, owes for the time being a qualified allegiance to that State.“ Westel Woodbury Willoughby, 3 The Constitutional Law of the United States, 834 (1910).
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Yawn. The United States Constitution did not incorporate the Treaty of Westphalia.
Grow up.
The United States of America has always been a sovereign nation, and every sovereign nation determines who its citizens are.
“Nor can it be doubted that it is the inherent right of every independent nation to determine for itself, and according to its own constitution and laws, what classes of persons shall be entitled to its citizenship.” US v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 668 (1898).
Grow up!
Westphalia? What RU smoking?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#99773 Aug 14, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup. By birth or naturalization. The Court in Minor realized that citizens by birth were natural born citizens.
"At common-law,
with the nomenclature of which the framers of the
Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted
that all children born in a country of parents who
were its citizens became themselves, upon their
birth, citizens also."
Yup. They were natural born citizens, as they became citizens themselves, "upon their birth" in this country.
Guess what birfoon? It was later determined that children of aliens born in this country "became citizens themselves, upon their birth."
Duh!
But Wojo, you forgot the "s", as in "parents who were its citizens".

“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 168.
Old Goat

United States

#99774 Aug 14, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Ipse dixit.
LOL.
<quoted text>
TMI, Panky!
American Lady

Danville, KY

#99775 Aug 14, 2012
York: A new view of Obama, young and not quite American

But Obama was ambitious. Appalled by the “dirty deeds” of “Reagan and his minions”(as he wrote in “Dreams From My Father”), Obama became increasingly interested in, as Maraniss writes,“gaining power in order to change things.”

Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x21...
Old Goat

United States

#99776 Aug 14, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, BirfoonBoy, the President was born a citizen in this country, a natural born citizen. A subject OF a foreign power per operation of foreign law does not make one "subject TO a foreign power."
No. A visiting alien can be prosecuted for treason, unlike a foreign ambassador. The visiting alien owes temporary allegiance to the host country.
"§ 439 Treason is a breach of allegiance, and it will be observed that the statute restrict the definition of the offense to persons owing allegiance to the United States.
This allegiance may be one of full citizenship, or one based upon the presence of an alien, and the commission of the treasonable act, within the territorial limits of the United States. In an earlier chapter it has been pointed out that an alien within the territorial limits of a State, whether domiciled or not, owes for the time being a qualified allegiance to that State.“ Westel Woodbury Willoughby, 3 The Constitutional Law of the United States, 834 (1910).
<quoted text>
An alien never loses his allegiance to the country of origin, unless naturalized. "Old Goat, Constitutional Law of the United States,(2012).

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#99777 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
What Reporters?
Ah, the US District Court of Southern District of Mississippi was not shown the actual document but a photo copy!
No independent document expert has been allowed to examine any of Obama's documents. And a jpg image on the internet is not a document.
Sorry, Rougie, it was not a photocopy. The document was submitted electronically per court rules. The plaintiffs did not dispute the authenticity. If Rougie was aware of the local rules he would have realized that the party submitting an electronic document must keep the original on file. If the authenticity is disputed, the original must be produced. Guess what, BirfoonBoy, not even the Birfoon plaintiffs were stupid enough to challenge the authenticity of the document as submitted.

Get an effing clue.
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Reporters were shown "proof positive" and one reporter even photographed the certified long form birth certificate. Factcheck was shown "proof positive" and they published the information. Ken Bennett, Secretary of State of Arizona was provided with "proof positive" of the facts of birth, and he acted accordingly.
"Proof positive" was also submitted to the US District Court of the Southern District of Mississippi.
Rougie Baby is in denial.
American Lady

Danville, KY

#99778 Aug 14, 2012
CHAPTER XIX

One's Country, and Various Matters Relating to It.

====
§ 220. Whether a man may expatriate himself.

In passing upon the celebrated question whether a man may expatriate himself, we shall have to make several distinctions:

(1) There is a natural bond between children and the society in which they are born; they are bound to recognize the protection their fathers have received from it, and they are indebted to it in great part for their birth and their education. Hence they must love their country, as we have already pointed out (§ 122); they must show it due gratitude, and as far as they are able, requite its benefits. We have just remarked (§ 212) that they have the right to...the son of a citizen, when arrived at the age of reason, may consider whether it is well for him to join the society in which he happens to be by birth. If he does not find that it is to his advantage to remain in it, he has the right to leave it, though he should recompense it for what it may have done for him,(a) and retain, as far as his new engagements will permit, the sentiments of love and gratitude which are due to it. However, a man's obligations towards the country of his birth will be greater or less, or may not exist at all, according as he shall have left it lawfully and with reason, in order to choose another, or shall have been banished from it deservedly or unjustly in lawful manner by violence.

(a) This is the foundation of the tax upon emigration, census emigrationis.

(2) As soon as the child of a citizen, on reaching manhood, acts as a citizen, he impliedly assumes that character, and his obligations, like those of others who in an express and formal manner bind themselves to the society, become of greater extent and force. The case is quite different from the one we have just spoken of... A citizen may therefore leave the State of which he is a member, provided it be not at a critical moment when his withdrawal might be greatly prejudicial to the State. But a distinction must...are of his country. But a good citizen will never take such a step without necessity or without urgent reasons. It is dishonorable to take advantage of one's liberty and abandon one's associates upon slight grounds, after having received considerable benefits from them; and this is the case of every citizen with regard to his country.

======

§ 223. Cases in which a citizen has a right to expatriate himself.

There are certain cases in which a citizen has the absolute right, based upon reasons drawn from the very compact of civil society, to renounce allegiance to his country and abandon it.

(1) If a citizen can not find support in his country he is certainly at liberty to seek it elsewhere; for since men only enter into civil society in order to obtain the more easily a means of livelihood and render their state of life happier and more secure, it would be absurd to pretend that a member to whom the society can not furnish the necessities of life has not the right to leave it.

(2) If the body of the society, or the sovereign who represents is, fail absolutely in their obligations toward a citizen, the latter may break off from them; and if one of the contracting parties does not fulfill his part of the agreement, the other is released from his. It is upon this principle that the society may expel a member who violates the laws.

(3) If the majority of a Nation, or the sovereign who represents it, seek to establish laws in matters to which the compact of society can not oblige all citizens to submit,... We have elsewhere given further applications of this third case: the instance of a democratic State which desires to have a king (§ 33), and that of an independent Nation which decides to subject itself to a foreign power (§ 195).

(a) See the chapter on Religion, above.

http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk1/Patr/Misc...
Old Goat

United States

#99779 Aug 14, 2012
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, BirfoonBoy, the President was born a citizen in this country, a natural born citizen. A subject OF a foreign power per operation of foreign law does not make one "subject TO a foreign power."
No. A visiting alien can be prosecuted for treason, unlike a foreign ambassador. The visiting alien owes temporary allegiance to the host country.
"§ 439 Treason is a breach of allegiance, and it will be observed that the statute restrict the definition of the offense to persons owing allegiance to the United States.
This allegiance may be one of full citizenship, or one based upon the presence of an alien, and the commission of the treasonable act, within the territorial limits of the United States. In an earlier chapter it has been pointed out that an alien within the territorial limits of a State, whether domiciled or not, owes for the time being a qualified allegiance to that State.“ Westel Woodbury Willoughby, 3 The Constitutional Law of the United States, 834 (1910).
<quoted text>
So, I guess we never have any US citizens born outside of our borders?
Interesting!
American Lady

Danville, KY

#99780 Aug 14, 2012
DIY Lawsuit in Kentucky (updated)

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/08/diy-la...

Interesting :)
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

#99781 Aug 14, 2012
Recent scientific discoveries have sharpened the debate within the scientific community that seeks to determine whether or not the African is a related species to more highly evolved Euro-man and Mongoloid-man. Most of us are familiar with the theory that civilization was made possible as a result of Euro-man and Mongoloid man breeding with large brain Neanderthals, whereas the African was handicapped as a result of his having carnal knowledge of small brained Neanderthals. This "selective breeding" enabled Euro-man and Mongoloid man to establish civilization. This theory postulates that today's African sub-species is also the product of those respective matings.

Now comes along Japanese born Jared Taylor who gives an excellent video lecture entitled "Race Differences in Intelligence". Mr Taylor's timely report was linked to by American Renaissance. Mr. Taylor's findings seem to lend weight to the "out of Africa" evolutionary theory of man and related species.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/9p7py42

Source: http://tinyurl.com/c2av2ss

Ronald
American Lady

Danville, KY

#99782 Aug 14, 2012
American Lady wrote:
CHAPTER XIX
One's Country, and Various Matters Relating to It.
====

(3) If the majority of a Nation, or the sovereign who represents it, seek to establish laws in matters to which the compact of society can not oblige all citizens to submit,... We have elsewhere given further applications of this third case: the instance of a democratic State which desires to have a king (§ 33), and that of an independent Nation which decides to subject itself to a foreign power (§ 195).
(a) See the chapter on Religion, above.
http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk1/Patr/Misc...
§ 195. Right of the citizens when the nation submits to a foreign power.

In the case of a real subjection to a foreign power, the citizens who do not approve this change are not obliged to submit to it:— they ought to be allowed to sell their effects and retire elsewhere. For, my having entered into a society does not oblige me to follow its fate, when it dissolves itself in order to submit to a foreign dominion. I submitted to the society as it then was, to live in that society as the member of a sovereign state, and not in another; I am bound to obey it, while it remains a political society: but, when it divests itself of the quality in order to receive its laws from another state, it breaks the bond of union between its members, and releases them from their obligations.

http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01....
Grand Birther

Cleveland, OH

#99784 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
R. Lee takes no prisoners.
Full Metal Jacket's R Lee Ermey Calls Obama A Socialist
Published on Aug 14, 2012 by MarinePatriot0311
"They're driving us into bankruptcy so they can impose socialism on us. That's exactly what they're doing, and I'm sick and damn tired of it and I know you are too."
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...
<quoted text>
But we should listen to Barbara Streisand, Sean Penn and Roseanne Barr?
Wrong. Where did you glean that from?

Good job skirting the question.
LRS

Shreveport, LA

#99785 Aug 14, 2012
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#99787 Aug 14, 2012
Grand Birther wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, for all that Rogue Moron whines about Hollywood and the media, he sure puts a lot of stock in actors. Who cares what the guy from FMJ says?
Cons have even elected actors senator and president.
Moreover, "socialist" based on what?
Except for Clint Eastwood, who has noticed that actors who back the Repubs every election yeat are mostly "B" actors while the Dems get the cream of the crop backing them? I wonder why that is?
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#99788 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
They Voted Obama In Because he was Black.
We're Voting Obama Out Because he is Useless.
No, Rogue, because he is black. Period.
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#99789 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
R. Lee takes no prisoners.
Full Metal Jacket's R Lee Ermey Calls Obama A Socialist
Published on Aug 14, 2012 by MarinePatriot0311
"They're driving us into bankruptcy so they can impose socialism on us. That's exactly what they're doing, and I'm sick and damn tired of it and I know you are too."
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...
<quoted text>
But we should listen to Barbara Streisand, Sean Penn and Roseanne Barr?
Who the hell is R. Lee Ermey? Streisand, Penn, Roaseanne? Good actors, all, and intelligent. Loved what Roseanne did to those tobacco-chewing crotch-grabbing spitting baseball players whilst chanting the anthem years back. Bunch of millionaire slobs.

“Facts trump speculation”

Since: Dec 08

RationalState

#99790 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
What Reporters?
Ah, the US District Court of Southern District of Mississippi was not shown the actual document but a photo copy!
No independent document expert has been allowed to examine any of Obama's documents. And a jpg image on the internet is not a document.
What reporters? The reporters who were in the White House Press Room. Duh! One even photographed it and put the photo on the web.

Duh!

And, BTW, certification of the facts of birth is PROOF.

HRS 338-§ 14.3(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

Duh! Grow up!
wojar wrote:
<quoted text>
Reporters were shown "proof positive" and one reporter even photographed the certified long form birth certificate. Factcheck was shown "proof positive" and they published the information. Ken Bennett, Secretary of State of Arizona was provided with "proof positive" of the facts of birth, and he acted accordingly.
"Proof positive" was also submitted to the US District Court of the Southern District of Mississippi.
Rougie Baby is in denial.
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#99791 Aug 14, 2012
American Lady wrote:
“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them."
~ Thomas Jefferson
Bingo. You should know.
Logger blogger

Kingman, AZ

#99792 Aug 14, 2012
Jacques Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Rogue, because he is black. Period.
No because he is a liberal,and to far left.
Jacques Ottawa

Toronto, Canada

#99793 Aug 14, 2012
Rogue Scholar 05 wrote:
<quoted text>
What Reporters?
Ah, the US District Court of Southern District of Mississippi was not shown the actual document but a photo copy!
No independent document expert has been allowed to examine any of Obama's documents. And a jpg image on the internet is not a document.
If I knew, as Obama knows, that I was born in Hawaii, and shown certified copies of my BC, let me tell you, no one, absolutely NO ONE, out of principle for my rights under the constitution, no one I repeat, would ever lay eyes on my original BC, my school papers or anything that alludes to my private life. Give 'em hell, Mr President.

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