Should the US have universal healthcare?

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

Which they are NOT.We should vastly increase funding for "gifted" children and cut out spending for the retarded.And the below average should go to "trade schools".Blue collar jobs like plumbing and carpentry pay well.<quoted text>

Careful on that one. The school district I am in had a vote thing for spending more on "gifted" children...turned out the children were retarded, unbehaved and impossibly educatable.

Brylo wrote:

<quoted text>
Gee...no more than a month...is that average? Hope the result is NEVER cancer...I want mine down the hall... that DAY!!

Took about 4 days to get mine...and it could have been done faster if necessary

Phil Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Mr. Clements
Your congressman I have yet to deal with regarding the healthcare plan some here have worked on. As I am more familiar with Congressman Dent from the 15th district, where 3 of my siblings reside.
However I have all intentions of corresponding with Congressman Carney, I found his views to be along the lines of my thinking regarding our vetrans.
I pride myself in non-party affilation but the concept of an additional party I have always supoported. As you speak of this constitution Party you have gained my interest, can you supply me with a link or a site in which I can gain perspective on your party lines (strictly for self education purposes).

More than happy to
www.constitutionparty.org

Typical gov't lies.

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>Careful on that one. The school district I am in had a vote thing for spending more on "gifted" children...turned out the children were retarded, unbehaved and impossibly educatable.

This is taken from Bill S1019 which is the Bill to be rewitten with components of the plan developed by some on this thread.

Congress makes the following findings:

(1) Nine out of 10 Americans think the United States health care system needs fundamental changes.

(2) The United States spends approximately 16 percent of its Gross Domestic Product on health care and experts estimate that percentage will rise to 20 percent by 2015.

(3) The Federal Government spends more on health care than it does on national defense.
(4) As much as $1 out of every $4 health care dollars do not go towards making Americans healthy.

(5) Nearly 75 percent of American health care spending goes toward the treatment of chronic diseases. Five preventable chronic diseases (heart disease, cancer, stroke, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and diabetes) cause two-thirds of American deaths.

(6) Since 2000, premiums for family health coverage have increased by 87 percent, compared with cumulative inflation of 18 percent and cumulative wage growth of 20 percent. During this same period, the percentage of employers offering health benefits has fallen from 69 percent to 61 percent, and the percentage of workers covered by their own employer also has fallen. The current employer-based system offers little choice in health plans to employees: 88 percent of American firms offer only 1 health plan type.

(7) Medicaid was designed as a safety net to ensure that the poorest Americans have access to health care at a cost of $1,000,000,000 in its first year. Today, more than 1 out of every 6 Americans is in Medicaid at a total cost of more than $338,000,000,000 in 2006. The program is expected to cost nearly $5,000,000,000,000 over the next decade. In 2003, for the first time ever, Medicaid spending replaced education as the largest component of State budgets, consuming 22 percent of State spending.

(8) The unfunded liabilities of the Medicare Program over the next 75 years are estimated to be $32,100,000,000,000 and $70,500,000,000,000 on the infinite horizon. The Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund is projected to be exhausted by 2018. Without any change in the program, Medicare will consume 23.1 percent of all Federal income taxes by 2020 and 37.5 percent of all Federal income taxes by 2030. Under the current system, physician reimbursements will be cut by 34 percent by the year 2015, leading to decreased access to physicians' services for seniors.

(9) Our current civil justice system is adversely affecting patient access to health care services, better patient care, and cost-efficient health care, in that the health care liability system is a costly and ineffective mechanism for resolving claims of health care liability and compensating injured patients, and is a deterrent to the sharing of information among health care professionals which impedes efforts to improve patient safety and quality of care. Economists estimate that between 5 and 9 percent of health care spending is related to defensive medicine.

(10) The adoption of health information technology will significantly reduce health care spending while simultaneously increasing the quality of health care.

DAN CLEMENTS wrote:

<quoted text>
More than happy to
www.constitutionparty.org

I would be highly interested in the constitutional partys interpetation of these principles. These principles are extremely vague. They allow for personal interpetation. As I have a a couple of comments for each principles, do not assume I am against your party, but rather It would appear there are ehtical along with religious delemias.
As I have no intent on changing the topic of this thread please in the future either pass me a link to another thread or send feedback on my comments to my ghost email account (phgray@yahoo.com)
Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:
1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
Comment
I guesss the first thing that caught my eye on this was the term "Natural Death" As with medical science is concerned we have enormous opurtunity to extend life where as nastural death would occur. This also proposes the question of life support theology and who has the right to choose or in fact do you have the right to choose?
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
Comment
This principle leaves it open for any individual to assume his actions as long as s/he believes them to be ethical are of legal status. Which could include an area of religious contradiction ( a good case in point is the poligomy question. Let alone the eye for an eye concept.
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
Comment
As I covered this partly in the last comment, there are three things to consider Church, State, and the Constitution. This country is over 200 years old and we still haven't been able to clearly establish the fine line as how the interpetation of the constitution effects and legitimizes the interaction of Church and State.
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
Comment
I would interpet this to meaning doing away with all types of property tax.
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
Comment
This one really stood out to me, As it comes down to who's interpetation of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. Currently we have the justices of the Supreme court and I can't remember when we heard of a Unamimous vote.
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government is reserved for the state and local jurisdictions;
Comment
Now I can buy this however you will get into litigation over the meaning of parts of the constitution which again reverts back to Who's interpetation. The best example would be article 1 section 8 which talks about the federal Governmnets interest in the health and welfare of the Nation
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.
Comment
You just threw every alliance and trade agreement out the window of exsistance. as I am firm believer Charity begins at home, You just proved that Americans would have to also take personal responsibility and every social program would also be eliminated. You are inadvertently talking self containment which could not happen until after a global event of catestrophic proportions.
Thanks for the link I will read further into the views of your party. As I have mentioned before I support additional parties because I feel a two party system Limits partisan litigation. I would be further interested in the background of the founders of this party.

http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/ Here is a link the the Constitution Party presidential nominee Chuck Baldwin. He has written a lot of good articles on the very points you mentioned.

Basically I'm a strict constructionist. I go the some of the founding fathers own writings to see what they were thinking when they put froward the constitution and especially the Bill of Rights.

I copied your comment in a word document and I will answers them as I have time and email them back to you.

Do you thing the 2nd amendment means EXACTLY what it says?No need for liberal interpretation?

DAN CLEMENTS wrote:

http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/ Here is a link the the Constitution Party presidential nominee Chuck Baldwin. He has written a lot of good articles on the very points you mentioned.
Basically I'm a strict constructionist. I go the some of the founding fathers own writings to see what they were thinking when they put froward the constitution and especially the Bill of Rights.
I copied your comment in a word document and I will answers them as I have time and email them back to you.

Phil Gray wrote:

This is taken from Bill S1019 which is the Bill to be rewitten with components of the plan developed by some on this thread.
Congress makes the following findings:
(1) Nine out of 10 Americans think the United States health care system needs fundamental changes.
(2) The United States spends approximately 16 percent of its Gross Domestic Product on health care and experts estimate that percentage will rise to 20 percent by 2015.
(3) The Federal Government spends more on health care than it does on national defense.
(4) As much as $1 out of every $4 health care dollars do not go towards making Americans healthy.
(5) Nearly 75 percent of American health care spending goes toward the treatment of chronic diseases. Five preventable chronic diseases (heart disease, cancer, stroke, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and diabetes) cause two-thirds of American deaths.
(6) Since 2000, premiums for family health coverage have increased by 87 percent, compared with cumulative inflation of 18 percent and cumulative wage growth of 20 percent. During this same period, the percentage of employers offering health benefits has fallen from 69 percent to 61 percent, and the percentage of workers covered by their own employer also has fallen. The current employer-based system offers little choice in health plans to employees: 88 percent of American firms offer only 1 health plan type.
(7) Medicaid was designed as a safety net to ensure that the poorest Americans have access to health care at a cost of $1,000,000,000 in its first year. Today, more than 1 out of every 6 Americans is in Medicaid at a total cost of more than $338,000,000,000 in 2006. The program is expected to cost nearly $5,000,000,000,000 over the next decade. In 2003, for the first time ever, Medicaid spending replaced education as the largest component of State budgets, consuming 22 percent of State spending.
(8) The unfunded liabilities of the Medicare Program over the next 75 years are estimated to be $32,100,000,000,000 and $70,500,000,000,000 on the infinite horizon. The Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund is projected to be exhausted by 2018. Without any change in the program, Medicare will consume 23.1 percent of all Federal income taxes by 2020 and 37.5 percent of all Federal income taxes by 2030. Under the current system, physician reimbursements will be cut by 34 percent by the year 2015, leading to decreased access to physicians' services for seniors.
(9) Our current civil justice system is adversely affecting patient access to health care services, better patient care, and cost-efficient health care, in that the health care liability system is a costly and ineffective mechanism for resolving claims of health care liability and compensating injured patients, and is a deterrent to the sharing of information among health care professionals which impedes efforts to improve patient safety and quality of care. Economists estimate that between 5 and 9 percent of health care spending is related to defensive medicine.
(10) The adoption of health information technology will significantly reduce health care spending while simultaneously increasing the quality of health care.

seems phil i was right all along ha?

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

Do you thing the 2nd amendment means EXACTLY what it says?No need for liberal interpretation?<quoted text>

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The Bill of Rights was adopted for the protection of "We the People" from an overreaching government.
My right to own a gun is one of my guarantees of freedom!

cypriotNot fake tc wrote:

<quoted text>
seems phil i was right all along ha?

This portion of course is taken out of context. I would not support your views based on your previous post. I might add that any quetions as to the source of numbers that were also quoted within your post have gone unanswered.

DAN CLEMENTS wrote:

<quoted text>
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
The Bill of Rights was adopted for the protection of "We the People" from an overreaching government.
My right to own a gun is one of my guarantees of freedom!

The question of litigation on the second amendment is in fact the reach between the government and the citizen. Ca the government impose sanctions of the ownership of a gun.(we all know that they do)

Most recently challenged by a Washington DC woman who by law can not have a hand gun within the DC limits.

Your right to own a gun, is your right only if you have not been convicted of a feloney crime. Which could be inferrd that the government does have to right to say who or who isn't allowed to own a gun. While you cite it is your freedom to own a gun as a law abiding citizen the other side is interpeting the same amendemnt to read only as a part of a well organized militia.

As part of a well organized militia also leaves a wide gap becuase then one could claim they have a right to own a weapon as a right of being say a member of a terrriost organization.

With any decision that the supreme court decides of the second amendment it will never be settled as a fair and final decision.

>>>>>> Nine out of 10 Americans think the United States health care system needs fundamental changes.<<<<< <<
Nine out of ten Americans are unhappy about gasoline prices too...Their problem lies with the government lowering the vaule of the dollar. However most of them will blame the oil companies

As they shouldn't be answered.This pissant from cypress has NO RIGHT to look down his pansy nose at us.

Phil Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
This portion of course is taken out of context. I would not support your views based on your previous post. I might add that any quetions as to the source of numbers that were also quoted within your post have gone unanswered.

Universal health care would certainly be better than what we have, which is health care FOR THE RICH.

I have worked and paid taxes for 35 years.

Yesterday, I spent 1/2 of everything I had left for one treatment. I spent over $5,000.

I have no health insurance.

Or Bush.Seems like the economy started slowing down when the commie Dems took over in 2006.Let 'em have their fun.In 2010 we will be in a REAL recession.By 2012 we will have been bombed again,this time WITHOUT a response.Obama will be a one term prez.But ANYTHING is better than Hillarybitch.I know Phil is going to have a litter of lizards when he reads this!(hehe).We don't really see eye to eye on politics.UHC is another matter.

No_oil_4_u wrote:

>>>>>> Nine out of 10 Americans think the United States health care system needs fundamental changes.<<<<< <<
Nine out of ten Americans are unhappy about gasoline prices too...Their problem lies with the government lowering the vaule of the dollar. However most of them will blame the oil companies

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

Or Bush.Seems like the economy started slowing down when the commie Dems took over in 2006.Let 'em have their fun.In 2010 we will be in a REAL recession.By 2012 we will have been bombed again,this time WITHOUT a response.Obama will be a one term prez.But ANYTHING is better than Hillarybitch.I know Phil is going to have a litter of lizards when he reads this!(hehe).We don't really see eye to eye on politics.UHC is another matter.<quoted text>

WHen I think of Obongo I think of Carter a lot. I rember people saying "Its time for a change" when Carter was elected to his one term Presidency that was riddled by inflation, corruption ( Burt Lance et al) and plain and simple incompetence.

I bet you have a car and a flat screen TV.Why in HELL should MY taxes be raised to give YOU healthcare?The "rich" deserve better care because most of 'em made better life choices and investments.What would I rather do?Pay higher taxes for YOUR HC?Or travel first class to Europe or Costa Rica?Not really a hard choice.BUSH FOR A THIRD TERM!End all entitlements NOW!

No John McBush wrote:

Universal health care would certainly be better than what we have, which is health care FOR THE RICH.
I have worked and paid taxes for 35 years.
Yesterday, I spent 1/2 of everything I had left for one treatment. I spent over $5,000.
I have no health insurance.

No John McBush wrote:

Universal health care would certainly be better than what we have, which is health care FOR THE RICH.
I have worked and paid taxes for 35 years.
Yesterday, I spent 1/2 of everything I had left for one treatment. I spent over $5,000.
I have no health insurance.

.......

And what did you have done that cost you $5000.00? This answer should be a typical anecdotal story of how bad healthcare is in the US. So, let's have a few details so that we can evaluate the value of your post. Thank you.

Yes' but not Clintons plan of taxing you if you have none.