Judge slams critics of Texas school prayer ruling

UR BS wrote:

For those talking about my religion etc. I am best described as an agnostic but refuse to stand idly by while fools attack people for exercising their rights that are guaranteed under the constitution. Pleas all of you geniuses out there show me one place in the constitution where it says that a person can not pray at a public event?
I won't hold my breath on that one as you will not find it.
Now for karma please explain what exactly the staute of limitations has to do with anything? Remember that a statute of limitattions is only cncerned with criminal law and has zero to do with civil law. In most cases the Church made an agreement to pay reperations in order to close the case and they were mostly handlesas class action type cases where there were multiple complainants.
In Ca. the statute of limitations was lifted. Should you really want the truth read this article and note the other groups that were included that were never ublisized. You see the Catholic Church was the target and remains the target because they have the most money.

Records revealed that for decades, church superiors quietly had transferred priests they knew to be alleged pedophiles from parish to parish. Often the priests molested children in their new assignments. The files contained documents in which Law praised and consoled the accused men, with little mention of the victims. There were cases of drug abuse by priests. One priest acknowledged to the Boston Globe that he had molested teenage girls who had said they wanted to be nuns.
www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2002-12-&#... - Cached

Gary Bergeron, 39, of Lowell, said he and his brother were shocked to learn that church officials moved Birmingham to their parish of St. Michael after allegedly being told of previous abuse. Birmingham also served at five other parishes in Massachusetts.

In the case of the Rev. Paul R. Shanley, documents show that church officials knew allegations against him, and of his support for sex between men and boys, when they appointed him as pastor of a suburban Boston parish.

a priest convicted of sexual misconduct in Milwaukee in 1973 was transferred to California, where he molested an 8-year-old boy, a lawsuit claims. The suit says the Milwaukee archdiocese and the Orange County diocese covered up molestations and continued to regard the Rev. Sigfried Widera "as a Catholic priest who could be trusted with minor parishioners and minor students.
•A chaplain at a Catholic hospital in St. Louis resigned after the Illinois diocese that recommended him for the job revealed he was accused of sexually abusing a minor years earlier, the Archdiocese of St. Louis said.
www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-​50785... - Cached

"The Church edict was to protect the priests while an internal investigation was conducted and as a part of that investigation the priests would be moved. That is SOP for any internal investigation by any large organization".

Really?

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text>
Where's the link?
I looked at a dozen or so:
EL PASO (AP)— An El Paso high school dance teacher is accused by federal agents of recording more than 200 videotapes of himself having sex with as many as 70 children, some of whom were elementary school age.
Alferez began teaching at El Paso Irvin High School in 2008 and has also taught at other El Paso schools. School officials said Alferez had passed criminal background checks and has been placed on paid administrative leave.
www.wfaa.com/news/crime/El-Paso-teacher-&... ...- Cached
He taught at other El Paso schools, which means he was within the same district.
No indication anyone knew anything, till he was caught.

You must have missed the part where he was a visiting teacher in Yselta District and went on overnight trips with middle school kids.
There were allegations made in the first High School he worked at but nothing came of it as he moved on to the other High School. Likewise in the middle schools in the other district but again nothing done because he was only a visiting teacher and resigned from that position.

Wall Street Government wrote:

"The Church edict was to protect the priests while an internal investigation was conducted and as a part of that investigation the priests would be moved. That is SOP for any internal investigation by any large organization".
Really?

So what would be your actions if you were in charge of a large organization? By your statement I guiess it would be to take immediate punitive action against the person without care for any actual facts.
The key word in any of your posts about the Church is suspected. When you are a suspect in anything prior to any action being taken that could be deemed punitive the allegations need to be proven.
The other point that all of you Catholic attackers out there miss is that of the time frame when these cases of alledged molestation were going on. In those days this behavior was looked upon as an activity that could be counseled out of someoen much like homosexuality was looked at the same way.
So did the church screw the pooch on many of these cases? You bet they did!
Were there lots of cases where the accusers made false allegations of abuse? You bet there were.
Were there many other organizations that did the same type things as the Catholic Church but didn't get the puiblicity because the Church has more money and is an easier target? You bet there were.
Bottom line is that there was bad stuff going on and the Church handles it poorly just like many other organizations did, including the Boy Scouts and other well known groups, but to keep harping on it now some 30 years after the information came to light and in many cases 50 or 60 years after the actual molestation took place reeks of vendetta.

These are some of the victims as listed in the plea bargain.

"students from Le Baron Park and Scotsdale elementary schools, Camino Real Middle School and Austin and Irvin high schools."

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
You must have missed the part where he was a visiting teacher in Yselta District and went on overnight trips with middle school kids.
There were allegations made in the first High School he worked at but nothing came of it as he moved on to the other High School. Likewise in the middle schools in the other district but again nothing done because he was only a visiting teacher and resigned from that position.

Yes I did, because you don't provide your source, all my sources have no mention of it.

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
So what would be your actions if you were in charge of a large organization? By your statement I guiess it would be to take immediate punitive action against the person without care for any actual facts.
The key word in any of your posts about the Church is suspected. When you are a suspect in anything prior to any action being taken that could be deemed punitive the allegations need to be proven.
The other point that all of you Catholic attackers out there miss is that of the time frame when these cases of alledged molestation were going on. In those days this behavior was looked upon as an activity that could be counseled out of someoen much like homosexuality was looked at the same way.
So did the church screw the pooch on many of these cases? You bet they did!
Were there lots of cases where the accusers made false allegations of abuse? You bet there were.
Were there many other organizations that did the same type things as the Catholic Church but didn't get the puiblicity because the Church has more money and is an easier target? You bet there were.
Bottom line is that there was bad stuff going on and the Church handles it poorly just like many other organizations did, including the Boy Scouts and other well known groups, but to keep harping on it now some 30 years after the information came to light and in many cases 50 or 60 years after the actual molestation took place reeks of vendetta.

Yes I would have notified the police, it is thier job to sort through that mess, not your boss.
Homosexual rape can be counseled out of someone?
When the person acts on their thoughts, it is a crime, always has been.
Except for the catholic church.
A vendetta might fly with with one parish for one or more accusations but doesn't hold water for several thousand over decades in hundreds of parish's.

The boy scouts:

Rick Turley was 18 when he learned that Scouting offered a unique opportunity to meet boys.

He would show up in a uniform with a sash full of merit badges, charm parents with claims of being a "top" leader and offer to take their preteen boys out for a swim or drive. Then, often after plying them with alcohol, he would fondle or rape them — once going so far as to kidnap a boy in a stolen plane.

Over nearly two decades, Turley molested at least 15 children in Southern California and British Columbia, most of whom he met through American and Canadian Scouting, a Los Angeles Times and Canadian Broadcasting Corp. investigation has found.

Canadian ScoutsScouting officials on both sides of the border not only failed to stop him, but sometimes helped cover his tracks, according to confidential Scouting records, court files and interviews with victims, families and Scout leaders.

At one point in 1979, Boy Scouts of America officials decided not to call police after Turley admitted molesting three Orange County boys, the organization's records show.

"We were following exactly the national recommendations of the Boy Scouts of America and its board who set up the rules," said A. Buford Hill Jr., a former Orange County Scouting executive, in a recent interview. "You do not want to broadcast to the entire population that these things happen. You take care of it quietly and make sure it never happens again."

But it did.

Turley returned to British Columbia, signed on with Scouts Canada, which is separate from its U.S. counterpart, and continued his abuses for at least a decade.

Another vendetta?

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text> Yes I did, because you don't provide your source, all my sources have no mention of it.

Funny but it took me all of about 30 seconds to get the referenec to the other schools he taugh at.

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text> Yes I would have notified the police, it is thier job to sort through that mess, not your boss.
Homosexual rape can be counseled out of someone?
When the person acts on their thoughts, it is a crime, always has been.
Except for the catholic church.
A vendetta might fly with with one parish for one or more accusations but doesn't hold water for several thousand over decades in hundreds of parish's.
Another vendetta?

Had you bothered to properly read my post you would have seen that I clarified the counseling remark in accordance with the times. In those times when the actual abuse was going on it was believed, and not just by the church but by the majority of psychologists that such deviant behavior was a mental illness that could be cured. So again you are soo intent on finding fault with the Catholic Church that you immediately disregard anything that doesn't support your position that they Church is wrong on all accounts.
As to the hundreds of parishes world wide yes thereb were many cases all around the world as would be expected in any world wide organization. It would have been more surprising if the abuse had only happened in the US.
The vendetta is because you people can not let it go. Every time any type of sex abuse case comes to light you immediately bring up the Church. That is a vendetta.
Now I expect that you will ignore the report I will link to here but I will supply the link anyway.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/...

As to other organizations I do not see the vendetta because they have one or two stories written about them and then it is forgotten where as with the Church is is never forgotten at all it is always top story regardless of who is doing the abuse. Case in point would be the recent case in California where the entire school staff was dismissed because of multiple teachers have been found to be abusing kids. In every article I read there was always some mention of the Catholic Church scandel.
That is what I mean by a vendetta.
I have zero pity for the ones that commited the abuse, even the one that was strangled while in prison.

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
Funny but it took me all of about 30 seconds to get the referenec to the other schools he taugh at.

Funny it took me about as long, first article.
Other schools?
You stated he was moved outside the El Paso Independent School District.
So, where is the link?
Where is the evidence that his bosses knew and still gave him a favorable review.
Moving from school to school is not uncommon within the district, he has already passed a background, having no complaints, it's easy.
A very far cry from what the church did or the boy scouts.

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
Had you bothered to properly read my post you would have seen that I clarified the counseling remark in accordance with the times. In those times when the actual abuse was going on it was believed, and not just by the church but by the majority of psychologists that such deviant behavior was a mental illness that could be cured. So again you are soo intent on finding fault with the Catholic Church that you immediately disregard anything that doesn't support your position that they Church is wrong on all accounts.
As to the hundreds of parishes world wide yes thereb were many cases all around the world as would be expected in any world wide organization. It would have been more surprising if the abuse had only happened in the US.
The vendetta is because you people can not let it go. Every time any type of sex abuse case comes to light you immediately bring up the Church. That is a vendetta.
Now I expect that you will ignore the report I will link to here but I will supply the link anyway.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/...
As to other organizations I do not see the vendetta because they have one or two stories written about them and then it is forgotten where as with the Church is is never forgotten at all it is always top story regardless of who is doing the abuse. Case in point would be the recent case in California where the entire school staff was dismissed because of multiple teachers have been found to be abusing kids. In every article I read there was always some mention of the Catholic Church scandel.
That is what I mean by a vendetta.
I have zero pity for the ones that commited the abuse, even the one that was strangled while in prison.

Not very good evidence supporting your claim:

"Much has been made of a survey done by the Dallas Morning News which claims that two-thirds of the nation’s bishops have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to continue working. But the problem with the survey is its definition of abuse—it includes everything from “ignoring warnings about suspicious behavior” to “criminal convictions.” Thus, the survey is of limited utility.

Very limited.

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text>
Not very good evidence supporting your claim:
"Much has been made of a survey done by the Dallas Morning News which claims that two-thirds of the nation’s bishops have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to continue working. But the problem with the survey is its definition of abuse—it includes everything from “ignoring warnings about suspicious behavior” to “criminal convictions.” Thus, the survey is of limited utility.
Very limited.

What the hell does that have to do with the link I supplied? That Dallas paper article had nothing to do with article I linked.
Dang you can stretch stuff.

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text>
Funny it took me about as long, first article.
Other schools?
You stated he was moved outside the El Paso Independent School District.
So, where is the link?
Where is the evidence that his bosses knew and still gave him a favorable review.
Moving from school to school is not uncommon within the district, he has already passed a background, having no complaints, it's easy.
A very far cry from what the church did or the boy scouts.

No I did not say he was moved outside the El Paso district. I said he had worked in other districts which he had. The fcat that charges were not filed at the other high school where he taugh, or the elementary schools he worked at in the other district means you will have a very hard time finding any articles on it. The fact that he had kiddie porn showing students from each of those schools shows he was doing it for years. He resigned the other positions as I have stated and had favorable recommendations from each of them.
So how about all the other teachers in all the other districts? I know it doesn't matter to you because it is not the Catholic Church.
Here's one from Colo."A teacher, two pastors and a former principal have been arrested in a sexual assault case involving a 15-year-old boy, according to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office."
Here's a link to an accusation that was fale about a teacher, think any of te priests may have been falsely accused?
http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/women/og...

Here is one where they paid the teacher to leave.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TEA...

Here is a link to a study on educators sexual misconduct with students.
http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/mis...
Bottom line is that it isn't just the Catholic Priests it goes much further and his just as well hidden.

wall street;
You might want to read this article as it demonstrates the exact thing I am talking about and shows the nationwide impact of the teachers.
You may also note that it says a small percentage, not sure how much below 4% it is as there isn't much below that number.

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
It is a violation of free speach to restrict tghe students this way.
"Fred Biery, a Bill Clinton appointee, is a Federal District Judge down in Texas. In order to satisfy two village atheist parents of a student who contend that their 18 year old “child” will be irreparably damaged if any prayer escapes any lips during his high school commencement ceremony, Biery has banned all prayer at the high school commencement of the Medina Valley Independent School District on Saturday. This includes the Judge censoring the speech of the valedictorian of the graduating class, Angela Hildebrand, a Catholic, who wished to say a prayer in her speech."
Now what, "Irreparable damage" would the words of te valedictorian do to tha fool?
Frredom of Religon doesnot constitute freedom from religion.

isn't it funny how athiests don't believe there is a God and that religion is a myth and prayer is a superstition but somehow prayer is powerfull enough to cause "irreparable damage" to their child. how lame is that?

barry wrote:

<quoted text>isn't it funny how athiests don't believe there is a God and that religion is a myth and prayer is a superstition but somehow prayer is powerfull enough to cause "irreparable damage" to their child. how lame is that?

That has alway been what amazed me. They scream and moan about being harmd but can never say how!

UR BS wrote:

<quoted text>
Here is a link to a good article on that judge. It goes far beyond just banning prayer. Somehow Idon't think that will matter to the other poster.
Hope this helps.
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/06/j...

Judge Biery is just one of those Socialist federal judges in the Eastern District that has made a ruling cited in moonbattery that threatened jail time for contempt of their arrogant, anti-Constitution, radical, leftest court orders. They sit on their life-tenure as federal judges and do all they can to 'legislate' law from the bench. Here recfently they have had their rulings overturned on some pretty high profile litigation, and they are starting to get the message. Won't be soon enough for me. I want to see their bare asses impeached. Good post UR.

Wall Street Government wrote:

<quoted text> Why should your same money pay for molestation increases the insurance is charging, that go to remedy an "irresponsible" act?
"Excommunication"?
Where?
To another church?

My money doesn't pay for molestation, just like your money don't pay for the women raped by Sadam's two sons and sent us off to war. And don't jack around on the issue of 'irresponsibility' as I put it. If you buy a beer, drink it in the privacy of your home and stay there, no harm done. You buy ten beers at a sports bar, leave, get in your car and drive out onto the public streets and get arrested for DUI/DWI after you cause an accident with damage and injury, that's 'irresponsibility', and that's why the judge is going to fine your butt, then throw it in jail. Why should my insurance premiums be used to mitigate the damage you caused by being 'irresponsible'?

And it's obvious you don't know squat about the Catholic Church sanction regarding excommunication. It's not solely throwing your butt out of the congregation so you can become a Baptist to ease the concious-it's leaving you without a way to heaven, you will not receive any of the rites of the Church. And it don't mean squat as to whether you believe in last rites, a Catholic does.

You need to know what you are talking about before you launch off on someone's religious beliefs.

Sheik Yerbouti wrote:

<quoted text>
You must be a big hit with the ladies! Sex for pleasure?? How horrible! Take your medieval papist claptrap elsewhere!

Eat one mile of my papist claptrap for your sexual pleasure. Then you can go anywhere you want.

PlacitasRoy wrote:

<quoted text>
Why in the hell should I be deprived of the enjoyment of watching a loved one graduate because some religious nuts want to invoke their god into the mix?
Religious freedom is damn sure freedom from religion when the proselytizing is done at public events sponsored by the state. And the religious freaks who want to pray at public events are insulting the Lord Jesus Christ savior of them all, with them all until the trumpet blows and they are raised up to meet him in the clouds!
BUT THOU, WHEN THOU PRAYEST, ENTER INTO THY CLOSET, AND WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, PRAY TO THY FATHER WHICH IS IN SECRET; AND THY FATHER WHICH SEETH IN SECRET SHALL REWARD THEE OPENLY. Matthew 6:6

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION, or PROHIBITING the FREE EXERCISE thereof;...... Aritcle I, First Amendement to the United States Constitution.

You and Judge Biery just don't get it. If Congress can not legislate the establishment of religion, or a prohibition on the freedom to exercise one's religion, then the Judge is legislating from the bench and is exceeding his judicial authority granted him in Section 2 of Article III, Section 1, and Section 4 of Article IV, Section 1, of the United States Constitution. And you condone his his impeachable offence to satisfy your socialist agenda.

And don't call me a legal authority on Constitutional law like you socialist trolls do to deflect your misguided comments. It's just really simple-I can read the King's English. It's an occupation you and the judge should try.