Evolution vs. Creation

KittenKoder wrote:

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Organisms need to eat. Some an consume minerals directly, but some mutated in a way that required them to eat others. Then the struggle for survival begins. All it takes is one generation of organisms required to eat other organisms to begin a massive struggle. You are thinking in way too simplistic and restraining terms. We are talking millions, billions, of year and billions of generations. You really should actually study it, or just admit you know nothing about it.
All the arguments you present are creationist linguine, that's why you are considered a creationist even if you have no religious affiliation. Stop using creationist arguments, and then we'll stop thinking of you as one. Ask questions instead, makes you look a lot smarter.

So again I ask if the only arguments that will be addressed have to come from an approved source. I keep being told that it is a creationist argument, but the argument itself isnt being addressed.

MountainOx wrote:

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Ill look for that book, thanks for the info. As far as study goes, I am speaking only of the studies down when we have had the capabilites to actually understand the mechanisms of evolution. Observation and extrapolation clearly wont work in a field where most changes are measured in the time frames that evolution is. As far as using a creationist argument, are you saying that only arguments from approved sources are valid to be answered? I seem to recal the catholic church doing the same thing for a lot of years. Are the evolutionists following their lead?
Yes, Theories are the highest scientific rating for an idea, but in the last 100 years, how many theories have been modified, rewritten or simply discarded. If someone questioning the theory makes people so defensive, how is it ever to be expanded or brought up to date.
I am not so much arguing against evolution, I've already said that is the best explanation out there, Mostly I'm wondering how scientific and rational thinking people believe it is ok to degrade or attempt to humiliate those with legimate questions or differing viewpoints.

The highest scientific rating for an idea is called a law. That means that it will be demonstrably true in every observable case as long as you perform your measurements correctly.

Of course, that isn't always a perfect solution either. Newton is credited with defining several laws that are practically true but are complicated by the "THEORY" of Relativity. Relativity has not been labeled a law because too much of it is simply untestable.

Nobody contests Relativity any more than they contest Newton's laws but it's still called a theory.

The Dude wrote:

<quoted text>Oh, so you're saying that the voices in your head tell you the correct way to interpret it.

Yet despite that you have God and Jesus allegedly talking to YOU, you STILL can't tell us whether the teeth of the lion are meant to be landing gear or missiles.

Yeah, great work on that translation Kay. Keep it up.

Ummm No.

Not even close. Your shot was like further then a half court shot and you missed by a mile.

Anonymous wrote:

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The highest scientific rating for an idea is called a law. That means that it will be demonstrably true in every observable case as long as you perform your measurements correctly.

So relativity and quantum mechanics are laws. So is the 'theory' of evolution. And Newton's laws are not laws by this definition.

The problem is that calling a scientific idea a 'law' has gone out of favor because we now realize that *all* scientific ideas are potentially wrong when we start looking at new situations.

Of course, that isn't always a perfect solution either. Newton is credited with defining several laws that are practically true but are complicated by the "THEORY" of Relativity. Relativity has not been labeled a law because too much of it is simply untestable.

Wrong. It has not been labeled a law because physicists have gotten away from calling *anything* a law. This is due, in part, to the revolutions in physics that are witnessed by relativity and quantum mechanics.

Nobody contests Relativity any more than they contest Newton's laws but it's still called a theory.

Special relativity and quantum mechanics are far superior to Newton's laws. Newton's 'laws' are known to be wrong in many situations.

The Dude wrote:

<quoted text>You do not understand the bible (as I've just demonstrated) therefore you're doing it every time you comment on the word of God.

Basically Kay, you don't know any more about God or the Bible than anyone else does. Therefore your religious opinions are nothing more than just that. Your opinions. That's all that you have to offer here.

I know only what I have learned.

I know not what you know of the bible however my assumption would be that you know very little base on your remarks.

The Dude wrote:

<quoted text>Not at all. Merely pointing out that you can't call something a prediction if you can't even understand (by your own admission) what the passage says.

I would not even presume to start dictating rules to God. I leave that to His followers.

My admission is bothering you?

You do so seem to enjoy the fact that I merely stated a fact that no one can possible be 100% sure of knowing the whole bible. Why does this most obvious statement seem like such a big deal to you?( it's a trivial statement )

We study the bible and learn from it and God reviles more to us.

"John wrote these things down so that we could know about them, too. John's book is difficult to understand because God showed him amazing things he had never seen before, things that he couldn't always explain with words we can understand. For example, he described strange creatures that had parts that looked like animals we have today, but we still can't imagine what they really looked like. The Book of Revelation tells us that our world will come to an end and that God will judge everyone. Many horrible things, including a great war, will happen to the earth before God destroys it and creates a new heaven and a new earth. It tells us that everyone who believes in Jesus as their Savior will go to heaven to be with Him. Revelation shows us how amazing heaven will be, and it also tells us that people who don't trust in Jesus will be sent to live in hell."

polymath257 wrote:

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So relativity and quantum mechanics are laws. So is the 'theory' of evolution. And Newton's laws are not laws by this definition.
The problem is that calling a scientific idea a 'law' has gone out of favor because we now realize that *all* scientific ideas are potentially wrong when we start looking at new situations.
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Wrong. It has not been labeled a law because physicists have gotten away from calling *anything* a law. This is due, in part, to the revolutions in physics that are witnessed by relativity and quantum mechanics.
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Special relativity and quantum mechanics are far superior to Newton's laws. Newton's 'laws' are known to be wrong in many situations.

No, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are theories. They are more inclusive of diverse situations and observable phenomena support the theory but those theories are not sufficiently testable. Can you show me a doable test that disproves Newton's Laws?

The fundamental rules of science are based on scientific method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_metho...

It's not perfect math. It's a discipline only.

KJV wrote:

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I know only what I have learned.
I know not what you know of the bible however my assumption would be that you know very little base on your remarks.

Based on your remarks you don't know jack about the Bible.

You must be incredibly insecure in your faith it you must search for nukes and helicopters in the Old Testament to bolster your beliefs.

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>If that's all there is to it Job is nothing but a waste of some perfectly decent papyrus.

And if that's all there is to it the fundies have a problem because of the participants in the wager Satan is found among the sons of God. I mean that's not how you guys think you've got it figured out. Is it?

God knows Job
Satan tries to prove to God that Job will fall from God if the easy life he lived was taken from him. So God let him try
And job past the test when all he had riches, family, animals, good health, were all taken away he still loved God.

(to sum it up if a few short words)

Sinhala gay wrote:

Adam and eve f**ked very hard.
Eve's vagina ripped.
Adam ejaculates inside the uterus.
Nothing happened, he was impotent...ROFL...SWAS...

You are a very sick person

KJV wrote:

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My admission is bothering you?
You do so seem to enjoy the fact that I merely stated a fact that no one can possible be 100% sure of knowing the whole bible. Why does this most obvious statement seem like such a big deal to you?( it's a trivial statement )
We study the bible and learn from it and God reviles more to us.
"John wrote these things down so that we could know about them, too. John's book is difficult to understand because God showed him amazing things he had never seen before, things that he couldn't always explain with words we can understand. For example, he described strange creatures that had parts that looked like animals we have today, but we still can't imagine what they really looked like. The Book of Revelation tells us that our world will come to an end and that God will judge everyone. Many horrible things, including a great war, will happen to the earth before God destroys it and creates a new heaven and a new earth. It tells us that everyone who believes in Jesus as their Savior will go to heaven to be with Him. Revelation shows us how amazing heaven will be, and it also tells us that people who don't trust in Jesus will be sent to live in hell."

Of course you could look at the alternative view in which Revelation is just a bunch of rehashed Hebrew apocalypses with the lion, a vicious predator, rather clumsily replace by a lamb, a docile herbivore.

Sinhala gay wrote:

God drilled this earth with his dyck and man was born....SWAS...

You honestly need help.
You are along ways from normal
You should see a doctor and get medicated.

Anonymous wrote:

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Actually, space exploration changes the odds dramatically. The Yucatan meteor mass-extinction could probably have been averted with a sufficiently developed space technology that could identify the threat and move such a comet or meteor when only a small nudge is needed.
The question is about what caused the other extinction events. Abrupt volcanic activity? Extreme ice ages? Deep ocean anoxia? All are theories but it's hard to imagine such things happening without warning.

The only time the outcome of these things we speak of could have possibly be changed , IS IN THE NOW. There have never been anything that knew before, But we do... so that we know can we change this? Heavy responsibility and trivial arguments do not help the propagation of life as we know it. But accept and unity is the only hope.

If we have seen farther than others , it is because we built better telescopes to see while standing on the shoulders of giants./

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>Based on your remarks you don't know jack about the Bible.

You must be incredibly insecure in your faith it you must search for nukes and helicopters in the Old Testament to bolster your beliefs.

Umm nope.

And Wrong

KJV wrote:

<quoted text>
God knows Job
Satan tries to prove to God that Job will fall from God if the easy life he lived was taken from him. So God let him try
And job past the test when all he had riches, family, animals, good health, were all taken away he still loved God.
(to sum it up if a few short words)

That's a pretty poor synopsis of about half of the first chapter. Thereafter follows thirty-seven chapter in the form of a dialougue and a concluding song of praise.

The reason I asked for the underlying theology and not the cover story was because your screen name indicates that you don't know anything about the Bible.

Aura Mytha wrote:

<quoted text> The only time the outcome of these things we speak of could have possibly be changed , IS IN THE NOW. There have never been anything that knew before, But we do... so that we know can we change this? Heavy responsibility and trivial arguments do not help the propagation of life as we know it. But accept and unity is the only hope.
If we have seen farther than others , it is because we built better telescopes to see while standing on the shoulders of giants./

Well, that's a bit of a jangled comment.

No, we can't currently deflect a comet but we really aren't too far from such a feat. The idea was a trendy attempt to justify funding the space program a decade or so ago, but I'm reasonably sure that we aren't in THAT big of a rush.

Jupiter was though. You can bet the Shoemaker-Levy would have been a mass-extinction event for Jupiter.

ARGUING with IDIOTS wrote:

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Interesting. I was unaware there is scientific evidence that falsifies the Bible. Can you provide an example please?

There is scientific evidence that Adam and Eve never existed as written in the Bible. Archaeology and DNA/genomic evidence agree that man (Homo-sapiens) has been on earth for around 200,000 years. There was NEVER a time when humankind was down to only two people, or 6 people if you believe the Noachian flood was real.

And, recently we learned that our very early ancestors mated with Neanderthal and produced viable, fertile offspring, this is a very strong indicator that we probably could mate with earlier primates in our species...i.e. Homo-erectus, Homo-habilis, Homo-heidelbergensis, etc. In other words we ARE descended from the great apes.

I think that this totally destroys the notion that there is a personal God who 'created' us from dirt or male ribs and is so involved with humanity that he tells men how to treat women who are on their period. The stupidity that Christianity has evolved into is overwhelming.

You might note that losing Adam and Eve has pretty long consequences. No first couple equals no 'Original Sin' No 'Original Sin' equals no need for Jesus.

Then of course there's all the evidence that the Exodus never happened, the Flood never happened, the Tower of Babel never happened, Joshua never knocked over the walls of Jericho, etc.

Just a few little things that totally knock-out the underpinnings of those stupid myths.

Anonymous wrote:

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Well, that's a bit of a jangled comment.
No, we can't currently deflect a comet but we really aren't too far from such a feat. The idea was a trendy attempt to justify funding the space program a decade or so ago, but I'm reasonably sure that we aren't in THAT big of a rush.
Jupiter was though. You can bet the Shoemaker-Levy would have been a mass-extinction event for Jupiter.

Enough said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

But yes we have the power t change the next verdict. And the NEO program aims high to change it!
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/