Evolution vs. Creation

Kong_ wrote:

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6J4og0hLPXQ/SxIzb7P...

Knightmare wrote:

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Interesting that you picked the donkey out of this. When talking about Jesus since He is God as well He would know all the prophecies wouldn't He?
The prophecies...which is nothing more than God autenticating who He is by telling us what is going to happen because He knows the beginning from the ending already.
So your example is a bit misdirected.

Knightmare wrote:

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/ dinosaurbasics/a/pterodactyl-f acts.htm
10. Neither Pteranodon nor Pterodactylus had feathers.
Despite what many people think, modern birds didn't descend from pterosaurs like Pterodactylus and Pteranodon, but from two-legged, carnivorous dinosaurs, many of which were covered with feathers. As far as we know, pterosaurs were strictly reptilian in appearance, though it's conceivable that some odd species had feathers as well.
{Now this is just...no wonder people are confused...birds didn't evolve from the FLYING pteranodon but from land animals...that makes a whole heap of sense...as in NOT...}

Judged:

1

Knightmare wrote:

{Okay so no flying dinosaurs...flying reptiles...classified as dragons still...and who knows some MAY have "breathed" fire.}

Knightmare wrote:

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Okay, I'm thinking here...lets say there God exists...He designed the animals. The connection between birds and dinosaurs would actually make sense. You would need similar bone structure, skeletal structure well, to fly for one...and with dinosaurs if they had a denser skeletal structure they would be too heavy for their size.

Nuggin wrote:

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You are making a number of EXTREME assumptions here and what's worse, they are circular.
You are saying that because Jesus is God therefore the prophecies are valid because they confirm that he is God. That's circular. If your assumption (Jesus is God) is invalid, then the entire statement invalidates itself.
That's not valid reasoning.
If I were to ride a donkey in Israel, would that make me God? No. I would be doing it because I read in the old testament that someone in the future would do it. Now I'm doing it.
That's not the same as me doing something and THEN discovering that it was predicted.
In order for a prophecy to be valid it has to be:
a) SPECIFIC & UNUSUAL
b) FORETOLD
c) UNKNOWN or UNCONTROLLABLE by the individual
d) UNREPEATABLE
Specific & Unusual:
- If I predict that there will be a presidential election in the US sometime in the next 10 years, is that proof that I'm tapping into magic powers? No.
- If I predict that someone at some point in the future will ride a donkey (a common animal which is ridden even in other stories in the Bible), is that a prophecy? No. I'm sure there have been a million incidents of people in Israel riding donkeys.
Foretold:
- The prophecy has to have been recorded BEFORE the events that it claims to predict unfold.
- If I predict that I am going to write the sentence above this one in this post, is that prophecy? No. I'm writing this AFTER I wrote that.
Unknown/Uncontrollable:
- If I predict that you will do something which is within your power to do and you know I made this prediction, you can act on what I said without it being an actual prediction.
- You would need to either NOT know I made the prediction, or the prediction would have to be something which is entirely out of the control of other people.(ie I predict a volcanic eruption on a specific day and place where no active volcano exists).
Unrepeatable:
- Predicting something which happens regularly is not a prediction. Again, with the donkey. How do we know the prediction is referring to Jesus and not one of the million people before or after who have ridden donkeys?

Nuggin wrote:

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This is the absolute worst kind of post hoc crap.
First it's "God is real, dinosaurs never existed."
Then it's "God is real, dinos existed but didn't evolve into birds. Birds also existed as separate things."
Then it's "God is real, dinos did evolve into birds, that's how we know God is real."
There is NO bit of evidence that anyone could present that doesn't fit into the "God is real" category because there are no rules whatsoever to your claims.
If we demonstrate conclusively that humans evolved from earlier non-human primates, then that is "evidence for God" because blah blah blah.
If you demonstrate conclusively that it DIDN'T happen that way, then that is "evidence for God" because blah blah blah.
If EVERYTHING is evidence, then NOTHING is evidence.

Knightmare wrote:

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Actually, yeah...
On that note where are the flying rabbits?

Knightmare wrote:

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You are still misinterpreting...
The Birth of Jesus
Prophecy: Jesus to be born in Bethlehem
Old Testament Reference: Micah 5:2
New Testament Fulfillment: Luke 2:4-7
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. " (Micah 5:2)
"Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child. So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. " (Luke 2:4-7)

Nuggin wrote:

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Except Jesus isn't the ruler in Israel, wasn't then, isn't now.
The Jews doesn't accept Jesus as a Messiah.
If someone were to be born in Bethlehem today and then go on to unit all of Judaism behind them and rule Israel, then this prophecy would clearly be talking about that new person, not Jesus.
A prophecy should not be able to apply to more than one person.

Knightmare wrote:

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Just thinking...

KittenKoder wrote:

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Hate to break it to you, but no, you weren't. You were attempting to rationalize the irrational belief. You almost started thinking but then jumped into the presupposition ignoring all the evidence that challenges your presupposition.
Think of it this way, your god is like a pair of black glasses with tiny pinholes to see through, and you're always wearing them when you look at everything. Take the glasses off, in other words don't expect to connect anything to your god, and then you can see a grand image instead of just that tiny piece.
This is why many scientists are heading toward agnostic theist or agnostic atheist, they have to suspend their beliefs in order to actually figure things out, in order to study the universe they have to test it without expecting specific results. Eventually they cannot justify being a gnostic anything as it would seriously hold back the progress of science. Your "god of the gaps" look at how a dinosaur family evolved into birds is limiting your view of evolution. Try it again, but this time do not expect to find a god in there.

Knightmare wrote:

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Nice to see you know exactly how I think...{sigh}...
I thought psychics were fake?

Knightmare wrote:

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The prophecy doesn't say the people would accept Him as ruler...at least at first anyways. His bloodline, humanly speaking comes through David. And He does rule...from heaven.

LowellGuy wrote:

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That's totally disregarding the fact that Zeus rules the entire world.

Knightmare wrote:

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True enough, I actually agree with you. That's what I put up is somewhat tongue-in-cheek humor. I mean yes...I do believe the Bible, creation...salvation in Jesus Christ...God Creator/Father...but I am in no way an authority in science.
Well, maybe in knowing that evolution is shown to be true because of the existence of vampires, werewolves and zombies.

Double Fine wrote:

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Well, he is alot better than some of the other loons I have seen.

FREE SERVANT wrote:

<quoted text>Our exchange of sentiments, observations,opinions and ideas IS conversation.