Should schools use Bible as a textbook?

Be careful what you wish for.

If the Bible were introduced into public schools and studied for its literary or phylosophical content, there is the risk that the teacher could be a religious skeptic who teaches the errors and inconsistencies in the Bible as well as allegorical interpretations of the text.

Would fundamentalists like this? Absolutely not.

What if a fundamentalist taught the class? Have you ever known a fundamentalists who could refrain from proselytizing? Would this make Jewish and Roman Catholics happy?

Think about why the Bill of Rights provision for freedom of religion must include freedom from religion to work.

I dont have an issue with this,, as long as its not forced upon them like evolution.

It is not unconstitutional to teach science in a public school, which is what evolution is. It is no more "forced on them" than English Grammer, Algebra and American History and like them is based on factual data.

It is unconstitutional to religion in public schools and any course using the Bible would be construed as a course in religion. Only an athiest could teach it with a non-sectarian slant.

Who is the fundamentalist.

Maybe they should teach history. This country was founded on a belief in GOD, in fact, the Declaration of Independance talks about the creator. Most of the founders were christian and gave credit to GOD for our independance. Many warned about the fall of christianity and the impact it would have on our liberties.

Evolution is full of quacks who have lied and will continue to lie in attempt to prove there false doctrine.

Piltdown man was responsible for the removal of GOD from our schools, and it was all a LIE.

Hunt wrote:

Who is the fundamentalist.

Maybe they should teach history. This country was founded on a belief in GOD, in fact, the Declaration of Independance talks about the creator. Most of the founders were christian and gave credit to GOD for our independance. Many warned about the fall of christianity and the impact it would have on our liberties.

Evolution is full of quacks who have lied and will continue to lie in attempt to prove there false doctrine.

Piltdown man was responsible for the removal of GOD from our schools, and it was all a LIE.

This country was not based on a belief in God, but a belief that men should rule themselves. This is reflected in the opening words of the Constitution - "We the People..." and in the Declaration of Independence, just read the entire document.

Many of the framers of the Constitution were "conventional" Christians, but there were also quite a few Deist, Unitarians and "infidels".

Deism was popular among the intellectuals of the day and Jefferson, Franklin and Washington were Deist. The God of the Deist is definitely not the God of Christianity.

The Constitution provided for freedom of religiion because the Founding Fathers knew from experience that religion and government did not mix.

One of us missed history class, and it wasn't me.

Religion, not God, has appropriately been removed from the public schools a number of times.

For instance, in the early 20th Century the Knight's of Columbus, a Catholic men's orgainzation, petitioned against prayer in schools. It seems that many schools wanted to use the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer, which, they said, was not appropriate for Catholic children attending public schools.

A more recent example of religion being thrown out of public schools is the Dover v. Kitzmiller case in Dover, PA.

If you want to put God in a school, establish a private school as many others have done, but don't infringe on the freedom of each citizen by attempting to present religion in public schools.

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus![April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]

And the list goes on, and on. You must have learned history from the same place that taught you evolution.

“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.”[ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”[October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
•“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot:| Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers ... and judge of the tree by its fruits.”

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin:| Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”–Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

Shall we continue?

Hunt wrote:

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus![April 18, 1775]

Government has no Right to hurt a hair on the head of an Atheist for his Opinions. Let him have a care of his Practices."
-- John Adams

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."
--Thomas Jefferson

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say that there are twenty gods, or no God.[emphasis added] It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg....Constraint may make him worse by making him a hypocrite, but it will never make him a truer man...Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error. Given a loose to them, they will support the true religion by bringing every false one to their tribunal, to the test of their investigation. They are the natural enemies of error, and of error only."
--Thomas Jefferson

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged because of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner or in any pretext, infringed."
-- James Madison

"Freedom is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
-- James Madison

blah, blah, blah

The fact is we were a CHRISTIAN nation which declared freedom of religion, that those with other beliefs SHOULD NOT BE PERSECUTED for thos beliefs. NOT THAT THEY SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO TAKE OUR BELIEFS AWAY.

The bases of our laws came from the 10 commandments. Can certainly show PROOF if needed.

"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to stay, abstains from giving us worthy evidence of the fact." - George Eliot

Quotes from the article in "..." and my comments in Comments:

"Course objectives, according to the NCBCPS, include:"

"Giving students a fundamental understanding of the literary forms contained in the Bible, as well as people and symbols often referred to in literature, art, and music."

Comments: Valid in literature, but limited in range. Classical Greek and Roman symbolism and references are more common in literature.

"Providing a basic understanding of the influence of the Bible on history, law, American community life and culture."

Comments: This is fine as long as the negative impacts are studied as well as the positive impacts.

"Offering insight into the world views of America's Founding Fathers and an understanding of biblical influences on their views on human rights."

Comments: Careful here, many of the founding fathers were Deist and did not accept the authority or accuracy of the Bible. The Bible has a horrible record on human rights and in Revolutionary times was interpreted as supporting the ownership of slaves and the Divine Right of the King of England to rule over the Colonies. Look to the philosophers of the day if you want to see the source of human rights issues in the context of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

"Providing a better understanding of Middle-Eastern history, geography, religion and politics."

Comment: The Bible's accuracy on history is one-sided and frequently not verifiable by a second source. Its geography is frequently called into question even by Biblical scholars. It provides a Middle-Eastern history of the Hebrews, but offers little else for others.

"Making students aware of the importance of religion in world and national history, without imposing the doctrine of any particular religious sect."

Comments: Once again, the negative impacts should also be discussed, without sparing any religious sect.

Hunt wrote:

blah, blah, blah

The fact is we were a CHRISTIAN nation which declared freedom of religion, that those with other beliefs SHOULD NOT BE PERSECUTED for thos beliefs. NOT THAT THEY SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO TAKE OUR BELIEFS AWAY.

The bases of our laws came from the 10 commandments. Can certainly show PROOF if needed.

Of the Ten Commandments, how many are law? Let's see, stealing and murder...What happened to the other 8? Perhaps "false witness" but only if you do it in court or under oath.

The fact that we provided for religious freedom in the Bill of Rights means that we are not a Christian nation, if we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't have freedom of religion.

That should be easy to understand.

"Offering insight into the world views of America's Founding Fathers and an understanding of biblical influences on their views on human rights."

"Comments: Careful here, many of the founding fathers were Deist and did not accept the authority or accuracy of the Bible".

BS, Few of our founders did not believe whole heartedly in CHRIST.

Nowhere in any founding document is religion forbidden in our schools, in fact, many founders felt that teaching about GOD was the most important thing to teach.

Remember we are discussing the founders, not those who followed.

Hoosier Jarhead wrote:

<quoted text>
Of the Ten Commandments, how many are law? Let's see, stealing and murder...What happened to the other 8? Perhaps "false witness" but only if you do it in court or under oath.

The fact that we provided for religious freedom in the Bill of Rights means that we are not a Christian nation, if we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't have freedom of religion.

That should be easy to understand.

Wrong! Many laws have been abandoned or are never enforced.

Christianity is not a religion that forces its views on people, unlike others. It is only the wicked that would forbid teaching about GOD. If you dont want your kids to learn the truth, you are free to opt them out.

Another interesting blog post...

"In your blog recently you have been pointing out how far removed the Christianists are from the religious attitudes of the Founding Fathers. This is all very true, but I think there is another dimension to this shift that you are missing.

The Founding Fathers were not very representative of Americans in the late eighteenth century. During that time period, the country was rocked by a number of fundamentalist religious revivals, in both the North and the South. So in their detached Deism, Jefferson, Adams, and the like were really unrepresentative in their own time.

I think the Founders recognized this, and this is why the Constitution tried to check the power of democracy as much as possible, by limiting the right to vote, by having the assemblies elect Senators, and by having the electoral college choose the President. The Founders didn't want the Bible-Thumpers in their midst making the important decisions. In case white male voters started transferring their "irrational" religious beliefs to the ballot box, the Founders could ensure that these other safeguards would prevent them from having their way.

Of course, in the intervening centuries, the democratic process has become much more inclusive. Now the people elect their own Senators, and the electoral college is little more than an archaic formality. The natural consequence of this is that the group of people whose religious enthusiasm the Founders once sought to exclude are now moving to the front and center of the political process. This is the price of democracy in a predominantly Christian land with a strong tradition of evangelicalism. And this is exactly the price the Founders hoped to avoid."

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/03/the_...

The founders established a REPUBLIC, under which LIBERTIES are protected. America has become a democracy and that will destroy America.

If you read about the founding of this country you might learn that those who were invited to the decision beilieved in GOD/Creator/ or some other higher power. They certainly DID NOT believe we evolved from ape.

The liberties of our REPUBLIC are failing all around us. Just as the founders said they would. I will provide more on this suject later. One in particullar states that we owe our liberties to christianity and when the pillars of christianity fall, our liberties will fall with them.

Want to see the exact quote?

Hunt wrote:

They certainly DID NOT believe we evolved from ape.

All that tells me is the rather trivial fact that the U.S. was founded before Darwin proposed his theory of evolution by natural selection.

PCD wrote:

<quoted text>

All that tells me is the rather trivial fact that the U.S. was founded before Darwin proposed his theory of evolution by natural selection.

Yeah, right. I dont believe they would persecute one for religion, but something tells me that they might not have been very friendly of Darwin, or you for that matter.

If your goal in life was to accomplish something you should be proud, you have help destroy the greatest nation UNDER GOD.

Hopefully one day GOOD MEN will rally and do what the founders called us to do.

Hoosier Jarhead wrote:

Be careful what you wish for.

If the Bible were introduced into public schools and studied for its literary or phylosophical content, there is the risk that the teacher could be a religious skeptic who teaches the errors and inconsistencies in the Bible as well as allegorical interpretations of the text.

Would fundamentalists like this? Absolutely not.

What if a fundamentalist taught the class? Have you ever known a fundamentalists who could refrain from proselytizing? Would this make Jewish and Roman Catholics happy?

Think about why the Bill of Rights provision for freedom of religion must include freedom from religion to work.

Good points, all.

I, for one, have no objection to the Bible being taught in a Religious or History class.

Using as a "scientific" text would quickly point out, as you observed, it's many, many scientific flaws and mistakes. It would reduce the Bible to a laughingstock-text in the minds of anyone with 2 working neurons ...

But, as a Religious text, or a Study of Human Ethics, or even a Study of The Human Condition: it would be a very fine adjunct to existing text books.

Bob the Unbeliever wrote:

<quoted text>

Good points, all.

I, for one, have no objection to the Bible being taught in a Religious or History class.

Using as a "scientific" text would quickly point out, as you observed, it's many, many scientific flaws and mistakes. It would reduce the Bible to a laughingstock-text in the minds of anyone with 2 working neurons ...

But, as a Religious text, or a Study of Human Ethics, or even a Study of The Human Condition: it would be a very fine adjunct to existing text books.

How would you know BOB? Your knoledge of scripture is VERY limited. What do you base this opinion on? IDOLOTRY?