Former Marine decries trial in civilian court

I would like to enquire: Since when does murder become acceptable?

Excerpt from the News Story:
—————
The case came to light in 2006, when Nazario’s former squadmate, Sgt. Ryan Weemer, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed.
—————
IN THE CASE >YOU< MISSED IT: A CRIME was ADMITTED of.

And:
—————
According to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service criminal complaint, several Marines allege Nazario shot two Iraqi men who had been detained while his squad searched a house. The complaint claims four Iraqi men were killed during the action.

The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.

“Nazario said that he was asked,‘Are they dead yet?’” the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to “make it happen.”
—————
The quotes are: "Are they dead yet?" and "make it happen."

If anyone here can manage to remark that it is acceptable to kill unarmed people whom are not a current threat —itself an act of murder— then it's not a far cry to say that your ethic and morality need a serious review.

When life is seen as so cheap that it may be dispensed with in cavalier fashion, then you've lost the plot.

In the case >YOU< missed it, those were real, live, breathing humans. Perhaps someone's father, or son, or brother.

Did they ~deserve~ to die, just because?

According to ~some of you~, those Iraqis just 'needed killing,' right?

Is that what they taught you in so-called 'public school?'

Is that the way >YOUR< parents raised you?

This is just another sign that our nation is in a state of decay.

When we place men and women in harms way, who we have trained to become killers our enemies, worked them for weeks at a time with less than four hours of sleep a day, is it any wonder that the enemies of the US military will be killed whether intentional or deliberate, accidental or out of an error in judgement?

When speaking with many who served in combat in prior wars whether WWII, Korea or Vietnam many will tell you that today members of our military are in jeopardy not only from enemy forces but are unjustly in legal jeopardy from our own government who is all too willing to sacrifice them in order to project a preferable image around the globe.

Is it any wonder we have difficulty finding qualified people who are willing to lose it all, in order to serve in our military, whether from a Foreign Enemy or our own Government when something occured which did not fit the ideal.

Did it ever occur to anyone death and cruelty is the nature of war? Another thing that many seem to forget is that who survives comes to who is the quickest otherwise one can end up dead. That is the nature of war!

Given the way we wage War since WWII, is it any wonder why we have become a bunch of losers?

Going after these Marines and Soldiers is wrong, particularly in a civilian court.

times run out wrote:

<quoted text>
You are right. Our men and women go into battle to protect what, our freedom in this country and yet they may not be afforded this same freedom when they come back from war. Any person going into the military these days better think twice about what they may be putting their lives on the line for. These new wars are wars for "profit" and this government doesn't even care if their own military men and women lives or dies, its all about profit! This country has come to a sad stage in its history.

You get the government you deserve when you keep electing the same idiots who are making happen what you complain of in your remarks.

There's only ONE way to make sure that it stops: VOTE THE BUMS OUT on every election.

DO NOT elect the same person twice. New faces for EVERY election are the only way to stop the hideous machinations from continuing.

They did nothing wrong!

This is a complicated situation, not as cut-and-dry as some are saying.

On the one hand, I think most of us would like to think that our service men and women (often our neighbors, friends, and/or family) are conducting themselves in some sort of moral, ethical, "proper" manner. I think it's just natural for us to think like the civilians we are. However, if we actually talk to any truly forthright veterans, they will tell us that there is very little that is moral, ethical, and/or proper in war.

“You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace.”
William Tecumseh Sherman

War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
William Tecumseh Sherman

“Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster”
William Tecumseh Sherman quotes (American Civil War General and a major architect of modern warfare. 1820-1891)

Sherman is also the one who said: "War is hell." So, how/why do we train for hell, and expect heavenly results?

Don't get me wrong here. I don't "agree" with what here seems like avoidable, intentional killing of seemingly innocent people. But, I also don't think that justice will really be served in this prosecution. I also don't think change will be effected in this manner, if change is what we are after. The entire military system is based on a hierarchy. Those at the top are in charge/control of, and therefore most accountable for, what happens. They either need to take better charge, if the "defense" is that this man, and others acted on their own, or take responsibilty, if this was an order from "above." Seems to me they want it both ways. The only way this sort of thing will change, is if those at the TOP make it change. I just don't see that happening.

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
You get the government you deserve when you keep electing the same idiots who are making happen what you complain of in your remarks.
There's only ONE way to make sure that it stops: VOTE THE BUMS OUT on every election.
DO NOT elect the same person twice. New faces for EVERY election are the only way to stop the hideous machinations from continuing.

You are exactly right.

Highlander wrote:

I would like to enquire: Since when does murder become acceptable?
Excerpt from the News Story:
—————
The case came to light in 2006, when Nazario’s former squadmate, Sgt. Ryan Weemer, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed.
—————
IN THE CASE >YOU< MISSED IT: A CRIME was ADMITTED of.
And:
—————
According to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service criminal complaint, several Marines allege Nazario shot two Iraqi men who had been detained while his squad searched a house. The complaint claims four Iraqi men were killed during the action.
The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.
“Nazario said that he was asked,‘Are they dead yet?’” the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to “make it happen.”
—————
The quotes are: "Are they dead yet?" and "make it happen."
If anyone here can manage to remark that it is acceptable to kill unarmed people whom are not a current threat —itself an act of murder— then it's not a far cry to say that your ethic and morality need a serious review.
When life is seen as so cheap that it may be dispensed with in cavalier fashion, then you've lost the plot.
In the case >YOU< missed it, those were real, live, breathing humans. Perhaps someone's father, or son, or brother.
Did they ~deserve~ to die, just because?
According to ~some of you~, those Iraqis just 'needed killing,' right?
Is that what they taught you in so-called 'public school?'
Is that the way >YOUR< parents raised you?

Assuming this side of the story is accurate. While the SS interviewee admitted to it, it doesn't mean it is true or that Nazario did as was stated.

Highlander wrote:

<quoted text>
You get the government you deserve when you keep electing the same idiots who are making happen what you complain of in your remarks.
There's only ONE way to make sure that it stops: VOTE THE BUMS OUT on every election.
DO NOT elect the same person twice. New faces for EVERY election are the only way to stop the hideous machinations from continuing.

Amen

Hang him high, leave the body up as a reminder.

As for Blackwater...mercenary scum hired by politicians who knew the public didn't believe in their made-up war enough to volunteer to fight it. The pols wanted their war anyway, so they borrowed money to hire mercenary scum...your grandkids will be repaying those loans to China and people connected with these politicians are getting rich and getting perks to keep them in luxury till they die.

When I think about all the tools and fools who denigrated those of us who were against the invasion of Iraq...I laugh and I hope they lost someone to this evil war. People who facilitate evil actions need to be punished. Including all of Congress for not having the stones.

5 years in and I'm still disgusted.

since when does civillian courts other than the scotus have jurisdiction over the military?to the civillian judges(other than the u.s. supreme court) out there:STAY THE HELL OUT OF MILITARY AND LET THE MILITARY DEAL WITH THIS!!!

in addition: SEMPER FI MARINE!!!

Cock and Balls Story wrote:

War is war. What did you think we were sending them in there to do, teaching a crochet class? NOT GUILTY!

Particularly impressive is how you can find a verdict of guilty without hearing all the facts.
Members of the armed forces swear an oath to defend the US Constitution, do they not? I've search my copy of the Constitution up, down, and sideways, and find nothing there about killing unarmed detainees.
"War is war," indeed. That entails the killing of combatants, not anything that moves.

Tell your chickenhawk brainwashed "patriots" that some of us DO know what a "drop shovel" is, and we also know why there are between 2,000 and 3,000 military suicides and veteran suicides per year.

Traditional military/industrial complex-owned media can't lie to the entire country forever. The truth is starting to come out.

http://ivaw.org/images/LondonTimesMagazinecov... by the way, rooftard, some of us "civilians" also happen to be VETERANS. They can get away with lying to people who never served and don't know better, but THEY CAN'T LIE TO US!

Want to know what a "drop shovel" is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Click on the link and watch... IF YOU DARE. Get your eyes opened!

roofgoof wrote:

since when does civillian courts other than the scotus have jurisdiction over the military?to the civillian judges(other than the u.s. supreme court) out there:STAY THE HELL OUT OF MILITARY AND LET THE MILITARY DEAL WITH THIS!!!

If you actually read the article, your question is answered. The problem is in expecting the military to "police" itself. It ain't gonna happen. Not so unlike expecting the Catholic Church , or doctors, or any other tight-knit group to police themselves. It doesn't really work.

Highlander wrote:

I would like to enquire: Since when does murder become acceptable?
~ clipped for brevity ~

Highlander, you seem to have overlooked one not so minor detail from the article.

The Marine unit was taking small arms fire from the house. That makes the occupants enemy combatants, whether they were holding weapons when the house was breached or not.

Additionally, simply because one of the participants considered it a crime in after thought, does not in fact make it a crime.

In doing job interviews, it has been my experience that people tend to say whatever they think the interviewer wants to hear. I can imagine how much more stressful the interview might be if it is done with a lie detector, which aren't exactly known for their accuracy which is why they are generally not allowed in court.

My personal opinion is that this is just another grandstanding attempt to back door our involvement in Iraq and sway public opinion prior to the elections.

Winter Soldier wrote:

Want to know what a "drop shovel" is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Click on the link and watch... IF YOU DARE. Get your eyes opened!

I don't dare. Can you explain without a picture or video.

He should go to court by his own military peers.

still shooting a unarmed civilain, is wrong. i dont think the military tells its soldiers to kill unarmed people, go figure

Cock and Balls Story wrote:

War is war. What did you think we were sending them in there to do, teaching a crochet class? NOT GUILTY!

Right You Are,,Didn"t Bush send them over there to kill? They do what they"re trained to do,Then get punished for it. Do you think those AH"s over there aren"t killing innocent people. If they don"t want them to Kill. Don"t Start A Freakin War !!!!!!!