GOP investigators fault five ATF officials in gun-tracking fiasco

gooood morning Dr.Bill_mr! last Day of da month..the Euro is up again! any funny news2day;)

There is NO EXCUSE for the AG of the USA-Eric the chinless wonder Holder to not be aware of memos and information IMPORTANT to our country.

His failure to monitor, to READ, to take responsibility shows a lack of leadership and an UNorganized department.

The Obama administration have CREATED a MESS!

What they did was inexcusable! But in reality 2,500 weapons is a drop in the bucket of the weapons that are in the hands of criminals and Narco's in Mexico.

Concerned wrote:

What they did was inexcusable! But in reality 2,500 weapons is a drop in the bucket of the weapons that are in the hands of criminals and Narco's in Mexico.

It was a stupid policy.

The FOXLIES puppets are acting as if it were the greatest crime against humanity since Adolph Eichmann.

Yet, this "Fast and Furious" program was started under GW Bush, and like most government pfrograms, took a life of its own, and contined under Obama.

Mr_Bill wrote:

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Yet, this "Fast and Furious" program was started under GW Bush, and like most government pfrograms, took a life of its own, and contined under Obama.

That is a blatant lie. Your opinions are worthless when but back them with lies. Operation Fast and Furious was started in the fall of 2009.

Robert wrote:

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That is a blatant lie. Your opinions are worthless when but back them with lies. Operation Fast and Furious was started in the fall of 2009.

Try harder:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news...

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/03/...

Mr_Bill wrote:

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Try harder:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news...
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/03/...

I am not trying to prove anybody wrong. Just want to know the truth. Here is a wikipedia link that states it was started in 2009. The was "operation gunrunner before that" and another it looks like. Either way similar programs were apparently going on under the watch of both presidents. I cannot imagine each president can know everything each agency is doing in the government. Would seem to be impossible. At one point you would have to trust that the people you hire or appoint are smarter then you at what they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...

I bet most if not all of the five ATF are registered Republicans.

Concerned wrote:

<quoted text>
I am not trying to prove anybody wrong. Just want to know the truth. Here is a wikipedia link that states it was started in 2009. The was "operation gunrunner before that" and another it looks like. Either way similar programs were apparently going on under the watch of both presidents. I cannot imagine each president can know everything each agency is doing in the government. Would seem to be impossible. At one point you would have to trust that the people you hire or appoint are smarter then you at what they do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...

You should hold wikipedia between FOXLIES and The World Weekly News, as a reliable reference source. Seriously.

KIKO wrote:

I bet most if not all of the five ATF are registered Republicans.

That would probably be a good guess since there are more registered republicans, I am guessing. Why did Obama did appoint all republicans to the ATF positions? Just curious? I will bet you there is a higher percentage of Mormons in Utah then any State also. Sometimes the odds make it so. It looks like it says Republican congressional investigators Have concluded that five senior ATF officials including the special agent in were responsible for fast and furious. Apparently if they are republicans as you say, if does not seem to hold sway with other republicans.

Concerned wrote:

<quoted text>
I am not trying to prove anybody wrong. Just want to know the truth. Here is a wikipedia link that states it was started in 2009. The was "operation gunrunner before that" and another it looks like. Either way similar programs were apparently going on under the watch of both presidents. I cannot imagine each president can know everything each agency is doing in the government. Would seem to be impossible. At one point you would have to trust that the people you hire or appoint are smarter then you at what they do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...

Operation Wide Receiver was started during the bush administration with far fewer guns, more information given to the Mexican government and more safeguards. Even at that the Bush Administration considered it a failure and shut it down.

Obamas justice department took it from there in 2009 and created Operation Fast and Furious. Bush had nothing to do with it. What Obama did is a disgrace, what does he do when people find out, wrap it in a cloak of executive privilege.

Robert wrote:

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Operation Wide Receiver was started during the bush administration with far fewer guns, more information given to the Mexican government and more safeguards. Even at that the Bush Administration considered it a failure and shut it down.
Obamas justice department took it from there in 2009 and created Operation Fast and Furious. Bush had nothing to do with it. What Obama did is a disgrace, what does he do when people find out, wrap it in a cloak of executive privilege.

I did not know Republicans gave a rats a$$ about Mexico. Remember it's a different CULTURE.

FLIP FLOP

Bleeding Heart GOP wrote:

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I did not know Republicans gave a rats a$$ about Mexico. Remember it's a different CULTURE.
FLIP FLOP

It has nothing to do with liking or dis liking mexico, they tried it, it did not work then Obama's people took something that was a proven failure and used it. It is like don't throw a gallon of gas on the fire to put it out, they say ok we will try 5 gallons of gas and see if that works.

Robert wrote:

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It has nothing to do with liking or dis liking mexico, they tried it, it did not work then Obama's people took something that was a proven failure and used it. It is like don't throw a gallon of gas on the fire to put it out, they say ok we will try 5 gallons of gas and see if that works.

Oh I see. You mean like iRAQ? Bush's policies making deficit worse?Regulations that created the housing bubble? Etc...

I see what you mean. Bad ATF.

Bleeding Heart GOP wrote:

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Oh I see. You mean like iRAQ? Bush's policies making deficit worse?Regulations that created the housing bubble? Etc...
I see what you mean. Bad ATF.

I am not a fan of the war in Iraq, or bush, or especially Obama he is ruining this country with debt.

If you think Bush or his policies caused the housing bubble you are stupid, there is just no other way to explain it. The information to it have been out there for too long to simply cry ignorance. Since you need to understand I will explain it.

The banks were deregulated by a bill written by the republicans. A democratic president (Clinton) signed that bill into law.

Prior to that a Democratic congress passed legislation to alter the mission of the federal mortgage programs to allow more people to get mortgages regardless of their credit rating this in order to help the less fortunate get a home, this was signed by a Republican president (Bush 1). Then a Democratic president (Clinton)dramatically increased the mortgages made under the CRA.

By the time Bush 2 got there the stage was set, the Bush 2 administration should have caught onto an done something about the shift into Mortgage Backed Securities issued by unregulated private-label companies operated typically by investment banks but he did not or would not do anything about it. To his credit he did notice the problem with fannie and freddie and the increased number of sub prime loans they held. Bush 2 called for action from the congress this was when Democrat Barney Franks told us everything was ok and they did not need to do anything.

If anyone blames the mortgage meltdown on the 8 years of Bush, or just on Clinton, or just the republicans or just the democrats then the one thing you know for certain is that they have no clue what they are talking about.

Good info. I guess we're screwed.

Bleeding Heart GOP wrote:

Good info. I guess we're screwed.

It has nothing to do with gun running but yes we are screwed. Some people say that we have not seen anything yet that he debt bubble is going to be much worse than the real estate bubble. Some guy who accurately predicted the real estate initiated recession of 08 in 2005 says when the National Debt gets above 21 or 22 Trillion will kick off another one with greater unemployment and inflation.

The really truly evil and hideous crime, that has taken tens of thousands of human lives, and caused a mass exodus of a country the likes of which have not been seen since the evacuation of Rwanda, is the insatiable American craving for illicit drugs.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2012-07-26/new...

Remove the demand, and issues like F&F won't exist. F&F is just a gnat on the elephants azz.

El Chingon wrote:

The really truly evil and hideous crime, that has taken tens of thousands of human lives, and caused a mass exodus of a country the likes of which have not been seen since the evacuation of Rwanda, is the insatiable American craving for illicit drugs.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2012-07-26/new...
Remove the demand, and issues like F&F won't exist. F&F is just a gnat on the elephants azz.

It is impossible to remove the demand. You cannot remove the demand. How do you do that? Any bright ideas since drugs have been used since man came onto the earth. I live in Mexico and drug usage is very high here as it is across the world. I watched a deal on TV about the United Kingdom the other night. Had no idea they used so many drugs. You have to realize the people with the more expendable money are going to buy most of the drugs. They can pay a higher price. Just more people and more money. They also buy more of everything in the USA. They are more successful in the USA. Just like the drug dealers follow the money. Here too the car thieves come to the nicer areas to carjack the better cars.

The best way is to legalize them. Just like they did with alcohol. But it is not the drugs. Crime in Mexico has taken a turn for the worst. It is the criminals in Mexico that need to be rounded up. Without the drugs they will still be killing each other now. They have felt power and the lust for money. They have lost their conscience as a whole. I am not saying all Mexicans. Because my wife and family and friends here are great. The criminals now know they can take whatever and whenever they want something without much chance of being caught or prosecuted. Just like the femicide in Mexico. Who do you blame that on? How about all the kidnappings, extortion, human smuggling, theft, car jackings and so on. How about all the South American immigrants being kidnapped, held for ransome, tortured and killed buy narcos and criminals at the Southern border of Mexico? Do you blame that on the fact that these people are going through Mexico to get to where the money and jobs are in the USA. You can blame everything on anyone you want. But the buck really needs to stop where it is the problem. The dealers create the drug, they sell it illegally, and they kill each other. No one forced them to do it. The average person will not kill off masses of their own people to create a bigger market for themselves.

I live here and it is amazing to read the papers everyday. Who do you blame all the crime on. All the drugs being sold to Mexicans in Mexico. Who do you blame that on? You see the people have been barred and razor wired in their houses like prisoners long before the drug wars. Things have just changed for the worse because they have gotten to greedy in Mexico and anything goes to get the cash. They are so poor that many are not afraid to die to enjoy some nice things even if it for a little while. They do not know any better. The country literally has a 4th grade adult education. So the poor take from the successful here. You really have to watch your back here.

Concerned wrote:

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It is impossible to remove the demand. You cannot remove the demand. How do you do that?

Sorry for cutting some of your post out cuz I'm limited on what I can post.

Did you read the article in the link. IMO, the case is made that the violence in Mexico is a direct result of American thirst for illicit drugs. The "hot" drug of choice now is meth. I find it hard to believe that meth is a drug of choice for the upper class as you seem to suggest.

If drugs are an ancient part of mankind's history, then why is it that, aside from political violence, no other country is approaching the level of violence that has enveloped Mexico.?

Interesting to note that I just a read a hard copy of Christian Science Monitor that reports that there is an growing effort in South American to legalize drugs as you suggest. I understand that even your president attended one of the get togethers. This then begs the question: What happens when meth is legal in, say Mexico, but still illegal in America?

That would be an interesting dilemma, yes?