Marine Murder Probe Intensifies

Ok - things are heating up here. Good. These issues boil our blood and bring out the passionate views that we all have - but for god sake let them be based on education, research and experience - or preferably a combination of the 3. Do not just trumpet the mainstream medias position - or what you read in your daily mag like JOE SMOE with his: Oil for 3 bucks - its not about oil - cos I as a consumer would benefiting right? WRONG Joe.

Thats just ignorant - it may be COSTING you $3 a gallon - but have you SEEN the PROFITS the oil companies are making. Ever seen the shareholder registers ofthese companies - and the shareholder lists of the corporations that ae shareholders? Shareholders benefit from war - not end consumers at the gas pump like you.

For a start - I suggest you read "the end of oil" by Paul Roberts - Amazon.com has it. Then read "the Grand Chessboard" - by Zbigniew Brzezinski (National Security Advisor to Jimmy Carter) which is roadmap to about What America must do to grow and maintain a hegemonistic position as a superpower and secure these interests.(This was the basis for the plan that is still being played out today)

America has a codependency on fossil fuels and needs oil for it's sustained economic growth which equals wealth which = money for the "spread too thin" global military footprint, arms, impending invasions of Iran and Syria, other needs etc. It also needs to establish control of the dwindling supplies of oil before other global consumers such as China does whose oil consumption will exceed Americas at the exponential rate it is growing. Iraq is a strategic foothold in this energy war - so yes, oil is the main reason the US is there.

TRUTH wrote:

<quoted text>
For all the bollocks in the movies.These soldiers are just an extension of warmongering murderers georgie and his lunatic administration .LET ME REPEAT THAT UNARMED MEN,WOMEN AND CHILDREN
YOUR DAMN RIGHT DONT FOR ONE SECOND PRETEND THESE MURDERING SCUM WERE DOING THEIR JOB.WHAT DEPTHS HAVE THE "GREAT USA ARMY" PLUMMETED TO
WHEN CRAZED MURDERERS ARE LET LOOSE ON A POPULATION ALREADY SUFFERING FROM DECADES OF ABUSE.

And then there's TRUTH who I believe is from the UK (from the use of the word "Bollocks") who ranted on about Movies, about soldiers being murderous extensionsof bush's policies - Again I say, educate your views with research, knowledge or experience please so you can espouse a view from a "qualified" standpoint - thathas more value to all of us (and to yourself).
You obviously havent served - so you wouldnt probably know that soldiers (especilly Marines) have both a code of conduct themselves, for warfare and very strict training that consciously and subconsciously attempts to instill what is right and wrong on the battlefield under great stress.(I know as I have been through that training as a former Marine). Officers are another safety net for bad decisions and potential unilateral activity like this - and I doubt one was there in this instance.
But there's another side that you must take into consideration when thinking abotu combat troops - any combat troops - from any country.(And until the trial has been held, and the evidence released - it is wrong to accuse or speculate as towhat happened in Hidatha)- but here's a truism for you - Soldiers are human beings.
Human beings are made up of layers of: Upbringing, experience, lessons, learnings, training (eg. military), moriality (eg. religion beliefs) and other such "layers" which prepare a person for situations and guide how they conduct themselves.
You will probably have read - or should read - William Goldings "Lord of the Flies" about what happens to a group of private school childrenleft to their own devices, and abanndoned, trying tosurvive on a deserted island after a plane crash - ultimately- these "layers" get stripped away until we are back to the raw, native, primal shells that we all are - as fundamental mammals.
The Marines, any soldiers, any individual that is subjected to enoguh trauma, bloodshed, anger, fear, helplessness - will lose these layers and be capable of doing the worst of things. Many of these soldiers were on their 3rd tours, with unsatisfactory R&R, no psychological screening processes and other mechanisms to check these layers.
Now I'm not espousing their guilt - I'm just showing you that in wars like this - like in Vietnam with Mai Lai, and other cases that the media (and bloggers" tend to rip apart and finger point - that they overlook this simple, darwinistic point - and instead should focus on the reasons (war) and the lackof controls and processes that have these solidiers at this level - and should heed this as a lesson of things to come of changes aren't made.
So TRUTH - dont blame the soldiers - these guys weren't "fresh off the boat" - with their layers intact - and I dont know what happened - but in wars like this - every side is capable of these sorts of things - its the way things are.
Its the same way that an otherwise calm and placid Mother will protect her new born "to the death" - and sometimes does if she thinks it is threatened. It is a genetically, electrically and chemically invoked response to a set of situations, that make us revert back to our Primal instincts - all it just takes the right conditions.

Beowolf wrote:

<quoted text>
A great nation? Yes! we've had our moments, some very splendid moments, but let's not get too full of ourselves. In my opinion, it is the sure sign of decline. Remember we started the country that proclaimed that all men are created equal but we just couldn't get away from slavery. Remember we saw a vast new territory in front of us and massacred the people living on it.
Great military? Yes! We have every modern weapon money can buy except good leadership from the top. Nough said!!!
Gee, I guess this means we can't be friends.

Absolutely agree with beowolf here - Its the leadership that is the problem - but there is a deeper concern - as with my previous response about "the Grand Chessboard".

This is a predetermined strategy (and one that George Bush is just the puppet at the top - he is too simple to have thoguht up any of it - he is just doing what he is told - and for his complicity he is kept in power) The real concern (and concern about US Democracy - is that regardless of whether kerry or Bush won the last election - the same policies would have been played out - they have to - and the "guy at the top" makes no significant difference. We have seen what happens to American presidents that dont follow what the economic, political and military instituional elite want....

The policies, like war in the middle east, NOT signing Kyoto because it would stifle industrial output - regardless of environment contamination and other such "decisions" would be the same regardless of which party is in power - there are "broad" strategies that are in play - AND MUST BE KEPT IN PLAY - for this country to survive economically and politically. and the guy at the top is just the scapegoat - the puppet - the figurehead - the lame duck - its not him making the decisions or devising the strategy and tactics - he just rubber stamps them and them smiles stupidly to the cameras.

We're on pre-determined path people. And history tells us that only revolution or the shattering of the American empire can bring any major change (like the collapse of the Soviet Union)- and then countries rebuild themselves from scratch (after the architects of the strategies, and corporations, and the power elite have siphoned off all the wealth and hidden it off-shore).

Not a pretty picture - and history tells us that this is almost inevitable. Feel helpless? I think it will take 15-20 years so we've got some time to blog - but it is brewing....

The Merm wrote:

<quoted text>
Mr. Jones is 100% correct with his comment. Thr United States military is the exemplar that every military force in the world should aspire to conduct themselves in the same manner. I am so sick and tired of people who can sit in the comfort of their homes, and criticize these wonderful men and women. Why don't all you America haters leave and go live in the Mid East since you seem to think that those people are so wonderful. I will personally come to your house and help you pack.

Dear Merm:

The members of “our” military are not “wonderful.” For the most part they are hyper-emotional, young, uncritical, and relatively poorly educated people who don’t have access to the same opportunities to learn about the world and prosper the way the American upper middle class can.

On top of this page is the face of the imbecile who runs their lives – take a good look at him and then look at yourself in the mirror. I bet you are not on line for the next Nobel or Pulitzer price.

As I said earlier, I don’t mind that “our wonderful” soldiers volunteer to get busted in Iraq because they are unable to think. I DO mind that MY tax dollars pay for that!

As for who should be packing and leaving, my friend, I would gladly send you off to where your ancestors came from. The time has come for this country to be re-inhabited by smart, thinking people. You are obsolete and unnecessary.

Now, please, act like a good Marine and show me how smart you are by concluding that I am Arab because I use an Arab pseudonym…

Abdul Al-Jabri
Newark, CA

The members of “our” military are not “wonderful.” For the most part they are hyper-emotional, young, uncritical, and relatively poorly educated people who don’t have access to the same opportunities to learn about the world and prosper the way the American upper middle class can

metoo : well you're right about them being young. poorly educated? maybe some. maybe. and i probably dont have opps that some upper middle class have. and how many upper middle class people join up? for what reason?

As I said earlier, I don’t mind that “our wonderful” soldiers volunteer to get busted in Iraq because they are unable to think. I DO mind that MY tax dollars pay for that!

metoo : oh bullshit! you dont know or care how 'your' tax dollars are spent.

As for who should be packing and leaving, my friend, I would gladly send you off to where your ancestors came from. The time has come for this country to be re-inhabited by smart, thinking people. You are obsolete and unnecessary.

metoo : if that were the case, i wonder where you would live.

Now, please, act like a good Marine and show me how smart you are by concluding that I am Arab because I use an Arab pseudonym…

metoo : i dont know about an arab but, another name that begins with an 'a' comes to mind.

are you one of the ones arrested in canada?

Xiphias wrote:

<quoted text>
Absolutely agree with beowolf here - Its the leadership that is the problem - but there is a deeper concern - as with my previous response about "the Grand Chessboard".
This is a predetermined strategy (and one that George Bush is just the puppet at the top - he is too simple to have thoguht up any of it - he is just doing what he is told - and for his complicity he is kept in power) The real concern (and concern about US Democracy - is that regardless of whether kerry or Bush won the last election - the same policies would have been played out - they have to - and the "guy at the top" makes no significant difference. We have seen what happens to American presidents that dont follow what the economic, political and military instituional elite want....
The policies, like war in the middle east, NOT signing Kyoto because it would stifle industrial output - regardless of environment contamination and other such "decisions" would be the same regardless of which party is in power - there are "broad" strategies that are in play - AND MUST BE KEPT IN PLAY - for this country to survive economically and politically. and the guy at the top is just the scapegoat - the puppet - the figurehead - the lame duck - its not him making the decisions or devising the strategy and tactics - he just rubber stamps them and them smiles stupidly to the cameras.
We're on pre-determined path people. And history tells us that only revolution or the shattering of the American empire can bring any major change (like the collapse of the Soviet Union)- and then countries rebuild themselves from scratch (after the architects of the strategies, and corporations, and the power elite have siphoned off all the wealth and hidden it off-shore).
Not a pretty picture - and history tells us that this is almost inevitable. Feel helpless? I think it will take 15-20 years so we've got some time to blog - but it is brewing....

Hey TRUTH, how many tours have you served in Iraq? You actualluy went out with some jarheads and and broke into houses and witnessed innocent unarmed civilians murdered? And if that is true as you stated why haven't you come forward and filed charges. By the way is your last name, Mirtha, Kennedy, Kerry or Shehan?

Go to the middle East and live under the protection of some Imam, you'd last about a day!

metoo wrote:

are you one of the ones arrested in canada?
<quoted text>

What? I think Forrest Gump would have more intelligible things to say - still waiting for a solid set of reasoning, backed up by research or experience - you consistantly have nothing constructive to add to these blogs....