McCain rejects minister's endorsement

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Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>So you need more proof that modern liberalism is the same as historic fascism. How’s this one: Congresswoman threatens to nationalize oil industry: Maxine Waters warns Shell president in House committee hearing
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php...

Fascists maintain the business elite. This is exactly what Hitler did. So your analogy doesn't hold up.

Socialism may nationalize private enterprise on occasion and to varying degrees.

Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>I’m sorry, I don’t want to confuse you with the facts.
You are demonstrating one of the remarkable traits of liberals, they react with emotion not reason. I did not call Roosevelt evil, in fact I said I had regard for him and his accomplishments. You automatically equate fascist with evil (the worse of the worse) because you have been conditioned to associate the word fascist with Hitler and Mussolini’s worse and most sinister behavior. This is a false, but convenient form of propaganda used by the left for the last 60 years.
Whenever the left wants to discredit a conservative, they whip out the fascist brush and slap them with it and the listener immediately thinks of the ovens at Treblinka.
But if a historian points to the immediate parallels in the social, economic and governmental policies of the fascist movement and the modern liberals (so called progressives), they squirm and howl. Just as you have been doing.
But I won’t try to confuse you with the facts if you don’t want them.
You know, facts like this quote from Harold Ickes, the interior secretary of the FDR administration (Goldberg); “what we were doing in this country were some of the things that were being done in Russia and even some of the things that were done under Hitler in Germany. But we were doing them in an orderly way.”
Let me know what your tolerance is for facts so I'll know whether to go on or not.
Remember, my purpose was only to make the point that Hagee, for all of his faults, is no facsist.

No, you've got it reversed. It is Republicans who react with emotion and not reason.

Furthermore, the fascist Republicans of today bear no resemblence to the Eisenhower moderates of fifty years ago.

You are a party that defies the Constitution and wages war by lies or behind the public's back. For example, Reagan's covert war in Nicaragua. Or W. Bush's war-by-lies in Iraq.

In addition, Republican presidents are notorious for using the CIA to overthrow democratic regimes, replacing them with fascist dictatorships.

Want examples?

1953 - Overthrow of democracy in Iran (Eisenhower)
1954 - Overthrow of democracy in Guatamala (Eisenhower)
1972 - Overthrow of democracy in Chile (Nixon)

And where fascist dictatorships exist, Republicans send financial and military aid to prop them up. Afterall, these regimes are their political bretheren.

Examples:

Nicaragua (Somoza)
Guatamala (Military Junta)
El Salvador (Rightwing aristocratic clique)
Chile (Pinochet)

Note how Republicans rave like lunatics over regimes by moderates like Allende of Chile or Chavez of Venezuela. Again, these are leaders who came to power by popular vote.

But they always defend and make excuses for rightwing thugs like Pinochet and the Argentine Military Junta of the late 70s.

Why? Because Republicans are facists themselves.

They are wedded to the military-industrial complex which is profiting from the current war in Iraq. This is why they constantly clamor for war and more armaments. It is a natural characteristic of fascism. Fascism makes war to serve the business and party elites.

They are fanatically patriotic, not because they truly love their country, but employ such methods to make their methods seem above question.

They approve torture and have created secret prisons to brutalize and degrade suspects on whim, not good evidence. They have greatly undermined American protection against arbitrary arrest with the Patriot Act.

So I will say it again. Republicans are fascist brutes without a shred of humanity or love of country. They seek to create a totalitarian state which thrives on perpetual war and serves the business elite at the expense of the lower and middle classes. Much like the regimes they support or have created in other countries.

This now makes Obama even up,when it comes to religious issues,It's just to bad McCain is following in Bush's footsteps.I used to respect the man for speaking out against Guantanamo. Must be they reprogrammed him in the CIA brainwash machine.

Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>Take the blinders off ignorant Bob. I didn’t say that Hitler was a socialist, he was a fascist. However, his party built its appeal on the ideologies of socialism and populism to launch their regime, which is why they called themselves socialists. They reached out to the same disgruntled segment of society and made the same kind of promises as the Marxists, even though they were not Marxists. They outfoxed the communist and crushed them within their own realm, but aligned themselves with them until Hitler set his sights on Russia for Lebensraum. One thing is for sure, they were not appealing to the capitalists in Germany.
I don’t expect any of the liberals on this thread to enjoy hearing that modern (and I stress modern) liberalism and historic fascism have a common pedigree and share agendas. But the fact that, as at least one of you has written, it makes you sick, doesn’t change history.
As for the industrialists and their relationship to Hitler, they made the best deal they could to survive. No justification, simple fact. Hitler exploited, extorted and blackmailed them and wrung every thing he could out of them. Your attempt to describe them as a partnership is laughable. I will not go so far as to call them victims, but calling Nazi Germany a capitalist state as you have just done is a complete distortion of history worthy of any modern progressive (liberal). Tell the truth, are you working for Hillarie’s campaign?

You concede the Nazis were not Marxists. By that measure, you also concede they were not socialists, for what is a socialist if not a follower of Marx? But that is the exact opposite of what you preached earlier.

As for your statement that Hitler aligned his Nazis with the communists and socialists until he set his sights on Russia, this is utter fiction.

Hitler never "aligned" himself with the far left. The Nazis engaged in violent confrontation with them from the beginning.

You say Hitler and the Nazis were not appealing to the business elite of Germany? Then explain why they donated millions of Marcs to the Nazi party? Obviously, men like Thyssen regarded Hitler and his army of thugs a useful tool.

Your suggestion that this was not a partnership simply defies the reality. The business elites financed Hitler. In return, Hitler attacked their political enemies. That's a partnership, Mr. Elephant.

As for your claim that Nazi Germany was not a capitalist state, that is nonsense.

In a true socialist state, the business elite is replaced by party members who take over industry. Show me one communist regime where this has not happened.

Well, Hitler did not replace the business elites. The Nazis did dictate production quotas, but so what? During WW II, all the major belligerents, including America, did such.

Your objections and arguments are sheer lies and represent the typical empty denials I have come to expect of the American far right.

You are a fascist. You spew fascist propaganda in an attempt to distance yourself from the kind of ideology anyone with a brain knows you wholeheartedly embrace in practice.

Well, America is wise to your game.

Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>Oh, he has been a faithful member of a black supremacist church for 25 years and you say he is not a racist. Suppose McCain had been a member of a white supremacist church for 25 days, what would you say about him?
Obama is a racist, no less than David Dukes.

I see... guilt by association. Typical Joe McCarthy tactic.

Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>Dear child, Auschwitz was an instrument of the final solution. This was the grand plan to rid the earth of what Hitler deemed to be inferior races. At the same time he was culling humanity of the races he held in contempt, he was cultivating the breeding of what he deemed superior Arian races. This is nothing more and nothing less than eugenics. Ever hear of the American and the British Eugenics Society? Their literature feed Hitler while he was writing Mein Kampf in prison. The earliest advocates of eugenics were:
Woodrow Wilson
Margret Sanger
Madison Grant
Sidney and Beatrice Webb
George Bernard Shaw
Harold Laski
H.G. Wells
John Maynard Keynes
Karl Pearson
Havelock Ellis
Julian and Aldous Huxley
Eden Paul
Liberals all.
United States Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote of his decision in Bick vs. Bell: I…delivered an opinion upholding the constitutionality of a state law for sterilizing imbeciles the other day – and felt I was getting near the first principle of real reform.(Goldberg) What is the difference in this thinking and Hitler’s with regard to eugenics?

You attempt to connect two utterly unrelated things, eugenics and Nazism. Having made that false assumption, you then present a handful of eugenics advocates as representative of today's liberals. And you do this with no citations or facts.

The moral of the story is, Republicans are fascists, and fascists lie brazenly.

Give it up, Elephant. We're wise to your game.

Brasidas was a Spartan general. And as we all know, Sparta was a totalitarian regime which glorified in war and total dedication to the state. It was economically maintained by brutal enslavement of the native Helots.

Why am I not surprised that a Republican would have such sympathies?

One Million See McCain's YouTube Problem!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zp-heller/one-m...

After seeing this how could any one still back him?

Last year in an effort to stir up dust over a plan to allow a Dubai based company to oversee port operations at several locations in the country.
And because of someones name make claims. When they have been in bed with them.
It would seem McCain’s political family tree with the Far East is in focus to be question over someones last name.
For half a decade in the 1980s, Black was also Jonas Savimbi's man in the capital city. His lobbying firm received millions from the brutal Angolan guerrilla leader and took advantage of Black's contacts in Congress and the White House

Justice Department records that Black's firm submitted under the Foreign Agents Registration Act detail frequent meetings with lawmakers and their staffs and lavish spending by Black and his partners as they attempted to ensure support for Savimbi, whose UNITA movement was fighting the Marxist Angolan government.

In addition to Savimbi, Black and his partners were at times registered foreign agents for a remarkable collection of U.S.-backed foreign leaders whose human rights records were sometimes harshly criticized, even as their opposition to communism was embraced by American conservatives. They included Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, Nigerian Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, Somali President Mohamed Siad Barre, and the countries of Kenya and Equatorial Guinea, among others

The Dubai Aerospace Enterprise (DAE) is a government-owned holding company operating through six subsidiaries: aircraft manufacturing; aircraft servicing; airport development and management; aircraft leasing and financing; aerospace education; aerospace technology incubator and consulting.

Saudi billionaire buys first A380 'Flying Palace'- Times Online
Nov 12, 2007 ... Today Dubai Aerospace Enterprise signed letters of intent for 100 planes from each .... Please note the maximum number of characters is 300....
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_e...

With the backing of Dubai’s ruling family, DAE was established with AED55.1 billion (USD15 billion) in start-up capital and a mission to establish a presence for the Aerospace industry to the Middle East.

McCain’s political family tree shows a much in focus view of just who’ has connections to the Far East.
This also figures into this equation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7416253.s...

We should have a 3rd choice this election called
NONE OF THE ABOVE!!
I will not vote for the scum that is running.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008...
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-b...

Osama Bama will cost us 300 billion his first year with all his plans to "save the world."

The forgotten oath
http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg29.h...

Congress and the WH for sale
http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie113.h...

This country just keeps voting in the same "liars and con men" over and over. When someone comes along who is honest and intelligent they get ridiculed. I guess we get what we deserve!!
The sad part is, we are losing our country to a bunch of Socialists, Fascists and corporate greed. Capitalism is all but dead.

Brasidias wrote:

<quoted text>And this changes what? I have provided ample evidence of the liberal (progressive) connection to historic fascism. You must not disagree since all you have done is point to some liberals who had ties to conservatives?

I have provided ample evidence in the form of basic facts, mostly citing passages from Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", that Hitler was a rightwing fascist, not a socialist at all.

But you continue to run off at the mouth, claiming a connection between liberalism and Nazism.

You, Sir, are a joke. And Shirer would agree. You're out of touch with reality.

The Nazis were financed by business elites. They engaged communists and socialists in street brawls. Once Hitler came to power, unions were banned and wages frozen. The leaders of far left political groups were placed in concentration camps.

Do you really wish to keep parading your stupidity before an educated audience?

Fed Up wrote:

Osama Bama will cost us 300 billion his first year with all his plans to "save the world."

How? Sounds like another baseless GOP accusation.

Fed Up wrote:

We should have a 3rd choice this election called
NONE OF THE ABOVE!!
I will not vote for the scum that is running.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008...
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-b...
Osama Bama will cost us 300 billion his first year with all his plans to "save the world."
The forgotten oath
http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg29.h...
Congress and the WH for sale
http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie113.h...
This country just keeps voting in the same "liars and con men" over and over. When someone comes along who is honest and intelligent they get ridiculed. I guess we get what we deserve!!
The sad part is, we are losing our country to a bunch of Socialists, Fascists and corporate greed. Capitalism is all but dead.

Quite amusing actually you have the audacity to say Obama is giving away 300 billion when BUSH has borrowed over 2 Trillion from China and Japan to pay his contractor buddies in Iraq!!!! Pathetic excuses of why not to vote for Obama.
The sad thing would be if he lost.

The rebate that every one will be getting this year is also borrowed. Just into time to spend it to put gas in your car. Or truckers have to pay to fill up with disel to make a living.

Fed Up wrote:

We should have a 3rd choice this election called
NONE OF THE ABOVE!!
I will not vote for the scum that is running.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008...
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-b...
Osama Bama will cost us 300 billion his first year with all his plans to "save the world."
The forgotten oath
http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg29.h...
Congress and the WH for sale
http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie113.h...
This country just keeps voting in the same "liars and con men" over and over. When someone comes along who is honest and intelligent they get ridiculed. I guess we get what we deserve!!
The sad part is, we are losing our country to a bunch of Socialists, Fascists and corporate greed. Capitalism is all but dead.

Uh - didn't the last Democrat balance the budget and actually have a few years of surpluses? Hasn't the guy in there now racked up trillions in debt - more than any President in US history and very much in line with recent Republican Presidents?

McCain’s political family tree
It would seem McCain’s political family tree with the Far East is much stronger than a last name. McCain has fired some lobbyist but still have several.
Charles R. Black Jr., the senior adviser to Republican John McCain whose work for foreign dictators has led Democrats to call for his ouster, is not the only lobbyist in the family volunteering on the senator from Arizona's presidential campaign.
Black "served as senior advisor to President George H.W. Bush
At the lobbying firm, Black was "the principal legislative & public affairs advisor to several Fortune 500 companies & trade associations.
Black's "ties with the Bush family go back to 1972, when he & Karl Rove were jockeying for control of the College Republicans in a campaign so dirty that George H.W. Bush, then head of the Republican National Committee, had to step in and sort matters out
His wife, Judy Black, is a national co-chair of the fundraising group "Women for McCain," & she has a vibrant lobbying practice that includes a foreign client and several companies with business before the Senate Commerce Committee, where McCain is a senior member. Judy Black works at Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck, a firm that earned $12.9 million in lobbying fees last year. She is listed as an agent of Dubai Aerospace Enterprises, whose partners include the government of Dubai, according to forms filed under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Since 2004, she has also represented telecomunications companies AT&T and Global Crossing Ltd., which have matters before the Commerce Committee. Do some research for your self to see who these Lobbyist worked for. For half a decade in the 1980s, Black was also Jonas Savimbi's man in the capital city. His lobbying firm received millions from the brutal Angolan guerrilla leader & took advantage of Black's contacts in Congress and the White House
Justice Department records that Black's firm submitted under the Foreign Agents Registration Act detail frequent meetings with lawmakers & their staffs and lavish spending by Black and his partners as they attempted to ensure support for Savimbi, whose UNITA movement was fighting the Marxist Angolan government.
In addition to Savimbi, Black & his partners were at times registered foreign agents for a remarkable collection of U.S.-backed foreign leaders whose human rights records were sometimes harshly criticized, even as their opposition to communism was embraced by American conservatives. They included Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, Nigerian Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, Somali President Mohamed Siad Barre, and the countries of Kenya and Equatorial Guinea, among others
The Dubai Aerospace Enterprise (DAE) is a government-owned holding company operating through six subsidiaries: aircraft manufacturing; aircraft servicing; airport development and management; aircraft leasing and financing; aerospace education; aerospace technology incubator and consulting.
Saudi billionaire buys first A380 'Flying Palace'- Times Online
Nov 12, 2007 ... Today Dubai Aerospace Enterprise signed letters of intent for 100 planes from www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_e...

With the backing of Dubai’s ruling family, DAE was established with AED55.1 billion (USD15 billion) in start-up capital & a mission to establish a presence for the Aerospace industry to the Middle East.
McCain’s camp been putting out any thing that promotes Obama as having family with Far East ties. McCain’s political family tree shows a much more in focus view of just who’ has connections to the Far East.
This also figures into this equation. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7416253.s...

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userl...

BlueLamp wrote:

<quoted text>
Uh - didn't the last Democrat balance the budget and actually have a few years of surpluses? Hasn't the guy in there now racked up trillions in debt - more than any President in US history and very much in line with recent Republican Presidents?

Where did I say I was a Bush supporter? I hate the man and what he did to my country.

Fed Up wrote:

<quoted text>
Where did I say I was a Bush supporter? I hate the man and what he did to my country.

Well I'd vote for Obama before I'd vote for Ron Paul. But I'd vote for Ron Paul before I'd vote for Hillary. But still, I'd rather have Hillary than McSame. That's just me though.