"Don't Ask" Fight Hits Senate

How is this justice? Why is this happening with a democratic president, house, and senate. Canada is looking better and better every day.

brian wrote:

How is this justice? Why is this happening with a democratic president, house, and senate. Canada is looking better and better every day.

It's far from justice, but a good step to take until we get there. Even with Democratic control, legislation to permanently end DA/DT is still months, if not a year down the road and anything that can protect the Lesbians and Gays in uniform now will help. An amendment to impose a moratorium for the interim can and should be done quickly and will mean an end to the expulsions until the law is finally killed off...

brian wrote:

How is this justice? Why is this happening with a democratic president, house, and senate. Canada is looking better and better every day.

Just what is wrong with the very wise political move pray tell?

If this passes a bunch of service members will come out, and that would make it interesting if the interim moratorium then expired. In fact, I don't see how the moratorium could expire and DADT Don't Pursue be re-instated at that point.

This will also lead to a period of bias crimes spiking.

Prior to Clinton "THE B-A-S-T-A-R-D" signing DADT into law, the FIRST time in U.S. history that such a thing had been done, "THE B-A-S-T-A-R-D" COULD have prevented the discharge of ALL gay personnel by simply issuing an order as Commander-In-Chief.

Instead, by enshrining this unconstitutional policy into federal law for the first time, he made things WORSE for gay people in the military.

Also, don't forget that "THE B-A-S-T-A-R-D" signed DOMA into law also.

BOTH laws are obviously unconstitutional.

WHY so many gay people still support and worship the Clintons is beyond me. He has done more to hurt gay people in our quest for Equal Rights than any person in the federal government ever.

I'm a Libertarian and NOT a Republican but I have been a PROUD CLINTON-HATER since I first heard of him and his crooked wife.

And for you idiots who still support these un-American cretins, please tell me what terrible thing would have happened if "THE B-A-S-T-A-R-D" had VETOED DADT & DOMA.

NOTHING bad would have happened because "THE B-A-S-T-A-R-D" SUPPORTS BOTH THESE FEDERAL LAWS.

I'm a PROUD CLINTON-HATER and never hide it.

At least he was impeached so that he will forever have an asterisk next to his name in the history books and hopefully also on his tombstone.

May they both rot in HELL forever. Good riddance to this BUM !

signed
a PROUD CLINTON-HATER
(in case you missed that)

Will this save Lt Dan Choi?

The Military can ill afford to lose quality service personal simply because of who they love.

There is an estimated 35% of the Armed Forces is either Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered......WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANYMORE SERVICE MEMBERS TO BE TOSSED OUT.......WHO WILL TAKE THEIR PLACE?

Blame Clinton. It's too bad we can't impeach him again becaus eit was so much funthe first time.

:)

Rose T-H wrote:

Will this save Lt Dan Choi?
The Military can ill afford to lose quality service personal simply because of who they love.
There is an estimated 35% of the Armed Forces is either Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered......WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANYMORE SERVICE MEMBERS TO BE TOSSED OUT.......WHO WILL TAKE THEIR PLACE?

Were did you get this 35% figure? I'm not sure exaggeration is helpful.

Rose T-H wrote:

Will this save Lt Dan Choi?
The Military can ill afford to lose quality service personal simply because of who they love.
There is an estimated 35% of the Armed Forces is either Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered......WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANYMORE SERVICE MEMBERS TO BE TOSSED OUT.......WHO WILL TAKE THEIR PLACE?

Less competent personnel.....sad.

Hahahahaha. Love those campaign promises

writewingproxycontin wrote:

<quoted text>
Were did you get this 35% figure? I'm not sure exaggeration is helpful.

Believe it or not......it's not an exaggeration.

It is however an approximation.

When I served back in the early 80's that was a number that was being passed around.

The actual number is not truly known because of the DADT.......but if you asked people in a particular unit.......then you might find a more accurate number.

In my squadron of approximately 300 personal.......there were approximately 25 who were gay or lesbian or bisexual......that is a percentage of approximately 8.3%.

There have been over 12,000 gay, lesbian or bisexual service members discharged since DADT was enacted. Since President Obama has taken office over 260 gay, lesbian or bisexual service members have been discharged.

My percentage might have been a little high....but I believe that one might be surprised by the overall number that are serving.

Well, Kirsten (Kristen ??? I'm not sure how you spell or pronounce her first name) Gillibrand (Gillebrand ??? I'm not sure how you spell or pronounce her last name) is my new junior U.S. Senator and i support her in this endeavor !

:)

Rose T-H wrote:

Will this save Lt Dan Choi?

Sadly no, the ruling in his case has already been made, from what I've read, the amendment is to put a halt to future dismissals.

Rose T-H wrote:

The Military can ill afford to lose quality service personal simply because of who they love.

Seeing that the President has proved unfortunately, unwilling to issue a stop-loss order while the legislation to end the law is being considered, this amendment is the next best thing.

Rose T-H wrote:

There is an estimated 35% of the Armed Forces is either Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered......WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANYMORE SERVICE MEMBERS TO BE TOSSED OUT.......WHO WILL TAKE THEIR PLACE?

The highest estimate I've heard of LGBT personnel in the armed forces is 65,000 and while significant, that is nowhere near the 35% figure you just quoted. We really should avoid even the appearance of exaggeration, our case is easily proved without it...

Rose T-H wrote:

<quoted text>
Believe it or not......it's not an exaggeration....there were approximately 25 who were gay or lesbian or bisexual......that is a percentage of approximately 8.3%.

Yes, 35% was an exaggeration then, even by your own anecdotal recall. By a factor of three or four.

Perhaps your 35% figure was computed assuming everyone in the military was drunk at the same time, but that still doesn't make it an intellectually honest claim.

Rick in Kansas wrote:

<quoted text>Sadly no, the ruling in his case has already been made, from what I've read, the amendment is to put a halt to future dismissals.
<quoted text>Seeing that the President has proved unfortunately, unwilling to issue a stop-loss order while the legislation to end the law is being considered, this amendment is the next best thing.
<quoted text>The highest estimate I've heard of LGBT personnel in the armed forces is 65,000 and while significant, that is nowhere near the 35% figure you just quoted. We really should avoid even the appearance of exaggeration, our case is easily proved without it...

There are more than the 65,000 that have been stated.......that number is purely speculation, however I do agree and corrected my numbers from what I remembered and discussed back when I was in.

Sorry that number upset people....that was not my intent.

writewingproxycontin wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, 35% was an exaggeration then, even by your own anecdotal recall. By a factor of three or four.
Perhaps your 35% figure was computed assuming everyone in the military was drunk at the same time, but that still doesn't make it an intellectually honest claim.

Folks,
I made a high approximation......SORRY:(

Here is a website for the amount of women in the military:
http://www.womensmemorial.org/PDFs/StatsonWIM...

Gay People Are Serving With Honor And Distinction Right Now

Today, there are at least 65,000 gay Americans serving on active duty and 1 million gay veterans in the United States, according to the Urban Institute.
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt

Almost 13,000 service members have been discharged since 1994.
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt

The military has discharged almost 800 mission-critical troops and at least 59 Arabic and nine Farsi linguists under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the last five years.
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt

DADT Discharges Have Fallen Since 2001

Since the War on Terror began, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" discharges have declined by almost half.
During every major military conflict the number of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" discharges has dropped.
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt

In 1994=>617 were discharged
In 1995=>772 were discharged
In 1996=>870 were discharged
In 1997=>1007 were discharged
In 1998=>1163 were discharged
In 1999=>1046 were discharged
In 2000=>1241 were discharged
In 2001=>1273 were discharged
In 2002=>906 were discharged
In 2003=>787 were discharged
In 2004=>668 were discharged
In 2005=>742 were discharged
In 2006=>623 were discharged
In 2007=>627 were discharged
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt

Daniel P from Long Island wrote:

Blame Clinton. It's too bad we can't impeach him again becaus eit was so much funthe first time.
:)

Did you ever stop to realize DADT only came into reality after Clinton tried ending the ban on gays? Obama, IMO, is taking his time because he realize what defeat was handed to Clinton when he attempted to end the ban. In comparison, Bush was a staunch supporter of DADT. Maybe you'd be happier if we somehow elected the Tooth Fairy into office.

McMike wrote:

<quoted text>
Did you ever stop to realize DADT only came into reality after Clinton tried ending the ban on gays? Obama, IMO, is taking his time because he realize what defeat was handed to Clinton when he attempted to end the ban. In comparison, Bush was a staunch supporter of DADT. Maybe you'd be happier if we somehow elected the Tooth Fairy into office.

Daniel is under the false impression that rushing into this would be a better way..unfortunately he is too blind to see that Obama is doing things the exact way they need to be done to ensure an ENDURING end to the policy.

oh and by the way..this just in:
Same-sex proposal needs study
Benefits provided by contractors could have economic impacts. Robert Garcia, the recently elected councilman for Long Beach's 1st District, is proposing that the city of Long Beach limit some of its dealings with contractors to companies that provide the same benefits for straight and same-sex couples.

straighties better start treating us as equals or we will be taking away some business from you to even things out as seen here!

Rick in Kansas wrote:

<quoted text>It's far from justice, but a good step to take until we get there. Even with Democratic control, legislation to permanently end DA/DT is still months, if not a year down the road and anything that can protect the Lesbians and Gays in uniform now will help. An amendment to impose a moratorium for the interim can and should be done quickly and will mean an end to the expulsions until the law is finally killed off...

Why? We have 60 Democrats in the Senate now that Franken's confirmed. That's filibuster-proof. All they have to do is vote to end debate and then vote to repeal the policy. It could be done in 1 day if they wanted to.