Pelosi raises idea of $150 billion stimulus bill

Blast it all where is she going to find the money? This is ridiculus!

Cool! We can use the money to invest in the stock market. And those who manage to lose their rebates first, will receive another $1,200 rebate and flaming paper sack of dog poo on their front porch.

what's left of stock market value is going into buying our debt. There will be plenty of money for the stimulus.

It's amazing that Bush was a fing idiot for doing the first stimulus, but now that idea is great.

Thanks Demowits and $bill. You are some sharp cookies. Sharp as a marble, or should I say sharp as a tack and twice as flat headed?

mellanomah wrote:

Increased taxes equals increased employment? NOBAMA!

We know the result of the tax increase that Clinton passed without any R support (jobs and prosperity for all.) And, we know the result of Bush tax cuts for the haves and the have-mores (record debt and fiscal malaise.) Easy choice and a no-brainer.

Interesting.

I say we sell some of the experts on this forum for what they think they are worth and pay off the whole world's debt.

But let's have a guillotine party for Wall Street first.

mellanomah wrote:

AA, didn't hear about the .com bubble, huh?

Nice dodge, but different issue. Clinton had to clean up the mess left behind by the GHWBush recession of 91-92. Deficits became surplus by the end of his second term.

Separately, the dot com bubble was the response to a new technology; where, new business models were proposed and people invested in what they saw as opportunities to produce a useful and profitable business. Ultimately, there were winners and losers.

What we have now is an administration manufactured bubble that promised the illusion of wealth (on ever rising home values) that was unsustainable. Bush admitted as much at that closed door meeting where he said "There's no question about it. Wall Street got drunk ---that's one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras -- it got drunk and now it's got a hangover. The question is how long will it sober up and not try to do all these fancy financial instruments." And, Bush was the one providing the liquor with his Ownership Society program.

You, me and the rest of the world have been neo-conned.

Wanna stimulate the economy?

1. Change all "free" trade agreements to "fair" trade. All goods shipped into the U.S. must be produced under comparable labor and environmental laws.

2. Raise the federal minimum wage.

3. Balance the federal budget by ending the occupation of Iraq and restoring fair taxation so the wealthiest 5% are paying their fair share. Use the fruits of a balanced budget to invest in our infrastructure.

4. Create well paying jobs and improve the energy/productivity ratio in our economy with a massive build out of solar thermal generating plants in the Southwest and wind farms in places they are practical, along with improvements in our transmission infrastructure to support them, and greatly increase incentives for installation of solar on homes and businesses with 2-way meters to sell unused power back to the grid.

5. Create well paying jobs by investing in our transportation infrastructure - repair the thousands of bridges that need work, and build out passenger rail to lower the transportation cost component in our economy and increase labor force mobility (which is an economic stimulator).

6. Enforce anti-trust law - break up the monopolies and monopsonies to stimulate competition and entrepreneurship.

7. Implement universal healthcare so that our workforce is healthier (thus more productive) and our companies don't have a competitive disadvantage with foreign companies that don't have the burden of this expense.

8. Invest in education to improve the capability and productivity our workforce.

mellanomah wrote:

AA, didn't hear about the .com bubble, huh?

The dot com bubble has nothing to do with the Bush failed policies.

What Bush has done is none other than "guns and butter." LBJ did this with Vietnam and the Great Society programs and had the federal reserve print more money. It takes 3 years to have this counterfeit money to filter through the economy and then you have inflation. Inflation is a lagging indicator. Nixon fought inflation with "wage and price controls" and failed. Ford fought inflation with "WiN buttons" and failed. Carter did not know what to do. Carter did get Paul Volcker in as head of the Fed and under Reagan raised interest rates to 21 and 1/2% on the prime. Each president suffered more inflation, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment. Through the severe recession under Reagan, inflation finally came down (that is less money in circulation-high interest rates) and for 20 years after inflation, interest rates and unemployment came down.

Bush is doing the same "guns and butter." Have the tax cuts, a war not paid for, and no cuts in spending. Now we have 400 billion dollar deficits, an added 4 trillion dollars added to the debt, and a low dollar. And also at the same time the federal reserve lowered interest rates too much (too much dollars) and now they are trapped and are fearful of raising rates which will choke the economy or lower rates for fear of inflation and losing the dollar. Any way you look at it, Bush is a complete failure.

You can google "LBJ guns and butter", wage and price controls, WIN buttons, and Paul Volcker.

democrats at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

PeterW Santa Fe wrote:

Wanna stimulate the economy?
1. Change all "free" trade agreements to "fair" trade. All goods shipped into the U.S. must be produced under comparable labor and environmental laws.
2. Raise the federal minimum wage.
3. Balance the federal budget by ending the occupation of Iraq and restoring fair taxation so the wealthiest 5% are paying their fair share. Use the fruits of a balanced budget to invest in our infrastructure.
4. Create well paying jobs and improve the energy/productivity ratio in our economy with a massive build out of solar thermal generating plants in the Southwest and wind farms in places they are practical, along with improvements in our transmission infrastructure to support them, and greatly increase incentives for installation of solar on homes and businesses with 2-way meters to sell unused power back to the grid.
5. Create well paying jobs by investing in our transportation infrastructure - repair the thousands of bridges that need work, and build out passenger rail to lower the transportation cost component in our economy and increase labor force mobility (which is an economic stimulator).
6. Enforce anti-trust law - break up the monopolies and monopsonies to stimulate competition and entrepreneurship.
7. Implement universal healthcare so that our workforce is healthier (thus more productive) and our companies don't have a competitive disadvantage with foreign companies that don't have the burden of this expense.
8. Invest in education to improve the capability and productivity our workforce.

Your running pretty close to what I have said before. We have 400 billion dollar deficits and Bush has added 4 trillion dollars of debt. We are losing taxable middle class jobs overseas, our money is going to Iraq, and our infrastructure is abandoned. It will take hundreds of billions of dollars to just maintain our infrastructure. We have 50 trillion dollars of unfunded social programs. We need ships for the Arctic. A new power grid and a new air traffic control system. On education, vocational school should be mandatory with school councilors guiding students all the way.

We need to know how to deal with globalization. Also with the loss of middle class jobs, the cities, the states, and the federal government is losing tax revenue. There is so much we have to do, to preserve our nation and our middle class. I don't know what Obama is going to do. I certainly know that McCain has no idea what is going on.

PeterW Santa Fe wrote:

Wanna stimulate the economy?
1. Change all "free" trade agreements to "fair" trade. All goods shipped into the U.S. must be produced under comparable labor and environmental laws.
2. Raise the federal minimum wage.
3. Balance the federal budget by ending the occupation of Iraq and restoring fair taxation so the wealthiest 5% are paying their fair share. Use the fruits of a balanced budget to invest in our infrastructure.
4. Create well paying jobs and improve the energy/productivity ratio in our economy with a massive build out of solar thermal generating plants in the Southwest and wind farms in places they are practical, along with improvements in our transmission infrastructure to support them, and greatly increase incentives for installation of solar on homes and businesses with 2-way meters to sell unused power back to the grid.
5. Create well paying jobs by investing in our transportation infrastructure - repair the thousands of bridges that need work, and build out passenger rail to lower the transportation cost component in our economy and increase labor force mobility (which is an economic stimulator).
6. Enforce anti-trust law - break up the monopolies and monopsonies to stimulate competition and entrepreneurship.
7. Implement universal healthcare so that our workforce is healthier (thus more productive) and our companies don't have a competitive disadvantage with foreign companies that don't have the burden of this expense.
8. Invest in education to improve the capability and productivity our workforce.

Also, to add. We need to find a way to create jobs that will stay in this country and not vulnerable in leaving the country. A daunting task.

Does anyone remember Herbert Hoover? Barack Obama's plans for raising taxes, increased regulation, and restrictive trade policies, are exactly what Hoover did. Must we repeat history?

This is WHY we are in such an economic mess because the DEMOCRATS who CONTROL CONGRESS have no clue how to handle the economy.

In May we JUSt HAD a $150 billion dollar stimulus package and it did NOT work. We had a $700 billion bailout that won't work.

Our country is in huge amounts of debt (because of BOTH DEMOCRATS (they have controlled congress for two years!!) and Republicans) and Democrats want to put us further in debt?

What a stupid idea. If the Democrats would take an economics class at the local community college...they will learn that a recession is a normal part of an economic expansion. Our economy cannot grow nonstop forever! It's impossible. STop throwing good money at bad ideas.

And people think Democrats can handle the economy better than Republicans? I feel they have screwed us up enough for the last two years.

Want to keep jobs here reduce corporate taxes to 12.5% like Ireland. When they lowered their corp. tax rates their per capita incomes went from second lowest in the EU to the second highest.

Agreed, Gerry. I think my points 1, 4, 5, and 7 help with that issue,#1 being the most important of them, but there has to be other things we can do. And this will be a critical issue if our middle class is to survive the next 30 years, especially because there is an entire continent with an untapped labor force that will step in once labor in Asia becomes "too costly" - Africa. You're right, the effects of globalization present one of the toughest issues we have to solve.

dnmlhm wrote:

Want to keep jobs here reduce corporate taxes to 12.5% like Ireland. When they lowered their corp. tax rates their per capita incomes went from second lowest in the EU to the second highest.

Let's start a race to the bottom. Countries will try to outdo each other with lower rates. Then, they will eliminate corp taxes completely. And, that still won't be good enough; and countries will start paying tributes to the corp's just to have them at all.

We certainly wouldn't want to have a level playing field and have all countries apply the same corp tax rate, now would we, when they enjoy using economic blackmail to their benefit?

dnmlhm wrote:

Want to keep jobs here reduce corporate taxes to 12.5% like Ireland. When they lowered their corp. tax rates their per capita incomes went from second lowest in the EU to the second highest.

Corporations are leaving for cheaper labor, no healthcare, and no pensions. Tax cuts alone will not solve this problem.

dnmlhm wrote:

Does anyone remember Herbert Hoover? Barack Obama's plans for raising taxes, increased regulation, and restrictive trade policies, are exactly what Hoover did. Must we repeat history?

We certainly do not want to raise taxes. However, if I am not mistaken, it would be the shifting of money from the rich to the middle class. After all these tax cuts under Bush has been disproportionate. And on top of that, it is the middle class that are losing the jobs, healthcare, and pensions.

This is not the only solution and just a minor part that needs to get done. But we have seen the last 8 years of failed Bush policies. Time to move on to something else.