Cherokee, Lumbee argue over recognition bill

Full story: Myrtle Beach Online

American Indians from either side of North Carolina traveled to Washington on Wednesday to argue about whether one tribe's quest for legitimacy would harm another's proud heritage.
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chavis

United States

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#370
Aug 2, 2010
 

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chavis wrote:
lumbee pride, ye ye
, ive been told were lumbee because of our last name, but my grandpa chavis was white, i know i have cherokee on the other side of my fam tho.
Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#371
Aug 3, 2010
 

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chavis wrote:
<quoted text>, ive been told were lumbee because of our last name, but my grandpa chavis was white, i know i have cherokee on the other side of my fam tho.
The name Chavis is worldwide used by thousands of Europeans has its origins in Portugal/Spain
From ancestry.com
The names origin is Spanish and Portuguese
and Galician: habitational name from any of numerous places called Chaves, generally from the plural of chave ‘key’, from Latin clavis. So just having the name Chavis or its Spelling variants(many)chafus,chavez,ch avous,shavus,cheeves does not make one automatically native American but does point to some European origin and the name is also widely used among african americans.At one point in history Portuguese and Spanish sailors populated the Lumberton/Robeson areas.If your grandpa Chavis was white as you say it goes well with the names Portuguese Origin so research it and do your own genealogy.
BigJake0330

Frederick, MD

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#372
Aug 3, 2010
 

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Lumbe by Association wrote:
<quoted text>
What Planet are you from?? Rememeber the corn we fed your ancestors when their ass was starved and abondoned by their own. Where's the love?? Oh that's what Thanksgiving is for. We should have let them all starve to death and then we wouldn't have this problem nor would we have their bad blue and green eye producing gene
running through our blood
You Squaws keep your legs together and you Bucks keep your weenies in you buckskin, you wouldn't have a gene pool
problem. Right?
Tsalagi Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#373
Aug 4, 2010
 

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As the Lumbee tribe attempts to rewrite history in its own favor and convince the world for a Casino that they are now The extinct tribe of Cheraws reborn,history documented the 50 or so remnant Cheraws after disease took its toll as joining with the Catawbas at rock hill, SC and adding such name as cheraw jimmie to the old catawbas rolls and being absorbed by the catawbas who are a well proven and documented federal tribe which has some great pottery makers a skill passed down and I believe the last fluent speaker of Catawba passed away in the 90,s adding the cheraw dielect to catawba.However to group that has announced themselves as Cheraw the Lumbee stil has not produced one speck of hard physical,genealogical or historical evidence to link them to the Cheraw as claimed they are going by a 1930,s anthropologist best guess (whom they hired).This guy based this guess on solely proximity because the Cheraw were within 60 miles of robeson,I dont see this is logical evidence, a guess !
Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#374
Aug 17, 2010
 

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In the late 20th century, genealogists Paul Heinegg and Dr. Virginia E. DeMarce performed extensive research of primary source documents, such as deeds, land records, wills and court records to develop genealogies of free people of color in the Chesapeake Bay area during the colonial years. They have been able to trace the migration of numerous primary Lumbee ancestral families from the Tidewater region of Virginia into northeastern North Carolina and then down into present-day Robeson County, North Carolina. They found that 80% of those identified as free people of color (or other) in the Federal censuses in North Carolina from 1790-1810 were descended from African Americans free in Virginia during the colonial period. From researching family histories through original documents, Heinegg and DeMarce have traced most Lumbee ancestors and have been able to construct genealogies that show the migration of people from Virginia to North Carolina. Most of those free African-American families in Virginia were descended from unions between white women (servant or free) and African men (servant, slave or free), reflecting the fluid nature of relationships among the working classes in early colonial years.The Lumbee are only using a Indian Identity to hide what they considered shameful long ago better to pass as Indian than Black and it worked.DNA results have backed this research up since Indian DNA is not found in your typical Lumbee,none.However L3 and R1 dna is what is found which is African and Southern european Arab types.This explains why the Lumbee have no Indian language or customs or heritage.
Tsalagi Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#375
Aug 24, 2010
 

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Tennessee State recognizes some new Cherokee tribes !! I absolutely do not support them in this endeavor.”says
Cherokee Nation Communications Officer Mark Miller described the recognitions as “defying the state legislature.” He went on to say that,as a Cherokee, he could certainly see the attractions of his culture. However, it is important to distinguish between heritage clubs,which is how he defined these groups,When people do genealogical research,they find all sorts of ethnicities and take a particular interest in some of them. People who discover a little German heritage, for example, might want to study the German language and go to Oktoberfest.this doesn’t give them the right to automatically become a German citizen or to create their own Germany. Similarly,you can’t make up your own tribe just because you found a Native ancestor.
The Cherokee Nation and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians have long struggled to protect their political and cultural identity. A 2008 joint resolution described threats over the years to their sovereignty and reputation by those claiming to be Cherokee, The document called the problem epidemic and said it misleading presentations to school children and interference in a multitude of government functions,calling the groups merely culture clubs.officials also questioned the legitimacy of the new tribes’ identity claims, which are based in part on others’ perception that one is Native American and on business activities that address cultural preservation.Some of the newly recognized groups assert a relationship to a single historic nation; the Chikamaka Band says it descends from a confederacy of Cherokees, Creeks,Shawnees, and other nations.The Central Band of Cherokee has an especially far-flung heritage.This includes believing it is a Lost Tribe of Israel, said Sitting Owl White.“We have DNA proving this and a team working hard on a treaty with Israel.”including a portrait of Pocahontas showing her “Jewish traits.reminds me that at one point the lumbees called themselves cherokee of robeson county !!!!
Stan

San Antonio, TX

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#376
Sep 8, 2010
 

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Lumbee say that they have been told by their parents that their ancestors were some kind of Indian and are most stubborn about it when the facts show otherwise with votes they have convinced many politicians to back them even the president without any new proof to their claim.At first the lumbee claimed Tuscorora then the lost colony of Roanoke then claimed Cherokee of Robeson county now claimed to be Cheraw or some coastal dead tribe the latest theory! without historical or scientific proof or any remnant cultural remains but for sure the european ancestry can be proven.With recognition the Lumbee will be able to claim land as reservation,have their own police and courts and act as a sovereign nation and receive close to a 800million in federal aid every 4 years also add anyone to their rolls as Native american proof of ancestry is not required for membership,this is all part of their reconition bill that the BIA cannot require them to prove Indian ancestry!! what a fraud tribe!
Dan in military

San Antonio, TX

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#377
Sep 9, 2010
 

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Ashamed relative wrote:
Ok first things first, my father was a "Lumbee" (I don't believe in that name), his parents left Robeson County before he was born and he, his three brothers and me and all my cousins are absolutely disgusted with the conduct of our kin in North Carolina. The name "Lumbee" is not even a real tribal designation, it was made up by some people from the group a long time ago just so they would have something to call themselves. I can understand why the "Lumbees" are so confused about their heritage because they've been taught they are Indian all their lives. My grandmother, a "Lumbee" born and raised in Robeson County, has admitted to me that ever since she left home all those years ago she has come to the conclusion, after meeting genuine Native Americans, such as the Navajo, that the "Lumbees" are about the farthest thing from real Indigenous people that one will come across. She has also remarked on how she has realized that the family probably is mostly African American, something she doesn't like to talk about but has confirmed. I really wish our relatives in Robeson County would just give up this quest to become real Indians and just accept who they are, TRI-RACIAL people. No one is going to deny that "Lumbees" are at least partially Indian but that amount of blood is incredibly small in comparison with the White and African blood in them which comprises over 80% of their DNA, and scientific tests fully back me up on this. I wouldn't at all object to them identifying somewhat with their Native heritage but to deny the other two, much larger, components of their heritage is false. Furthermore, the powwows and events the Lumbees hold trying to imitate real Indians are pathetic and for them to claim to be real Indians based on these practices verges on the farcical. I wish they could just be honest and identify as what they really are, AFRICAN AMERICANS. But sadly I don't think that day will ever come, thank God though my family was lucky enough to get away from all of it. Good luck "Lumbees" YOUR GONNA NEED IT.
warparty

Rocky Mount, NC

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#378
Oct 2, 2010
 

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CRYSTAL wrote:
How about the Lumbee Tribe stealing money from there organization. They don't deserve any recognition. If Lumbee's were true Native American's they would be recognized by now. Lumbee's are nothing but mixed breeds. Look at them. Not any Indian that I have ever saw. They act like someone owes them something. No one owes them anything.
you have no clue about what you are talking about your just mad that you are not lumbee
warparty

Rocky Mount, NC

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#379
Oct 2, 2010
 

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you have not a clue of what you are talking about you just want to jump on the wagon and say somthing we are NAP dont be mad
buckwild

Durham, NC

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#381
Oct 4, 2010
 

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i dont care what anybody else thinks. I know who i am and ima lumbee and proud of it!!!!! and i think we need recongnition so people know who we are and what we are about..
Sammy

San Antonio, TX

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#382
Oct 7, 2010
 

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In the late 20th century, genealogists Paul Heinegg and Dr. Virginia E. DeMarce performed extensive research of primary source documents, such as deeds, land records, wills and court records to develop genealogies of free people of color in the Chesapeake Bay area during the colonial years. They have been able to trace the migration of numerous primary Lumbee ancestral families from the Tidewater region of Virginia into northeastern North Carolina and then down into present-day Robeson County, North Carolina. They found that 80% of those identified as free people of color (or other) in the Federal censuses in North Carolina from 1790-1810 were descended from African Americans free in Virginia during the colonial period. From researching family histories through original documents, Heinegg and DeMarce have traced most Lumbee ancestors and have been able to construct genealogies that show the migration of people from Virginia to North Carolina. Most of those free African-American families in Virginia were descended from unions between white women (servant or free) and African men (servant, slave or free), reflecting the fluid nature of relationships among the working classes in early colonial years.The Lumbee are only using a Indian Identity to hide what they considered shameful long ago better to pass as Indian than Black and it worked.DNA results have backed this research up since Indian DNA is not found in your typical Lumbee,none.However L3 and R1 dna is what is found which is African and Southern european Arab types.This explains why the Lumbee have no Indian language or customs or heritage.
Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#383
Oct 8, 2010
 

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As the Lumbee bill falters this year we be assured that the integrity of the BIA and Native american tribes remains secure and not subject to the whims of intense political lobbying efforts to win casino rights instead of keeping real indian tribal culture intact as the Lumbee have none so the goal of federal recognition in their case is purely a money and benefits issue for a group of unproven self-identified self named club of person claiming a heritage they haven't proven. As the Lumbee tribe attempts to rewrite history in its own favor and convince the world for a Casino that they are now The extinct tribe of Cheraws reborn,history documented the 50 or so remnant Cheraws after disease took its toll as joining with the Catawbas at rock hill, SC and adding such name as cheraw jimmie to the old catawbas rolls and being absorbed by the catawbas who are a well proven and documented federal tribe which has some great pottery makers a skill passed down and I believe the last fluent speaker of Catawba passed away in the 90,s adding the cheraw dielect to catawba.However to group that has announced themselves as Cheraw the Lumbee stil has not produced one speck of hard physical,genealogical or historical evidence to link them to the Cheraw as claimed they are going by a 1930,s anthropologist best guess (whom they hired).This guy based this guess on solely proximity because the Cheraw were within 60 miles of robeson,I dont see this is logical evidence, a guess
Aunt T

Fort Worth, TX

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#384
Oct 9, 2010
 

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I have recently discovered some "Lumbee" ancestry. And I believe the real story of these fascinating people is more vital than the story they made up for themselves. They are the descendents of the original Angolans who were brought to Jamestowns by English freebooters. They were free people of color struggling to survive in an increasingly hostile environment.

But, it could be said that their determined effort to identify as "Native American warriors" might have also given them the mental and emotional strength to defy not only the Confederacy during the Civil War but also the Ku Klux Klan during the 1950's. They have much to proud of as a people and it has nothing to do with how much "Native American" they have in their DNA.
Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#385
Oct 11, 2010
 

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Aunt T wrote:
I have recently discovered some "Lumbee" ancestry. And I believe the real story of these fascinating people is more vital than the story they made up for themselves. They are the descendents of the original Angolans who were brought to Jamestowns by English freebooters. They were free people of color struggling to survive in an increasingly hostile environment.
But, it could be said that their determined effort to identify as "Native American warriors" might have also given them the mental and emotional strength to defy not only the Confederacy during the Civil War but also the Ku Klux Klan during the 1950's. They have much to proud of as a people and it has nothing to do with how much "Native American" they have in their DNA.
yes this is interesting comment and probably has some truth aunt T, the lumbee names such as Chavis,Chaves,Cheeves and words such as Juvem ba( a city in portugal) used by Lumbee ancestors points to a portuguese origin and so does the modern Dna results done at Lumbee websites R1 and L3 are southern european and black arfican Dna and it is the Main Dna found among Lumbees and is the definition of Lumbee Dna results.So if you have Lumbee Dna then you have R or L haplo types .So if you have Lumbee DNA you do not have Native Indian Dna but the European/african type.The Lumbee Dna project has not produced Native American Dna types,Indigenous Indian Dna types A,B,C,D are almost non-existant among Lumbee members.
Full Blooded Seriously

Raleigh, NC

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#386
Oct 15, 2010
 

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First of all there is no such thing as full-blooded anything. Also, being full blooded does not determine federal recognition. I have read some of these posts and I think there are some idiotic people on here. Do I think the Lumbee tribe has some amalgamated characteristics? Yes! Do I think that should mean do not get federal recognition? No!
One thing that has worked against the Lumbee tribe is the change in names and change in associations. They have had so much trouble defining themselves and in turn that has made it difficult for them to be defined.
Sam

San Antonio, TX

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#387
Oct 18, 2010
 

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Support the Federal BIA Recognition Process not congress political lobbied recognition.
To Protect All Tribal Citizens
What is a real Indian Nation? What is a fake tribe?
Fraudulent groups passing themselves off as tribes have become big business during the past two decades, with more than 200 that claim to be some sort of Cherokee tribe or other Tribe. However,there are only three federally-recognized Cherokee tribes: two in Oklahoma and one in North Carolina. Many of the would-be "tribes" are cultural societies or history clubs, whose members may or may not belong to any of the federally-recognized tribes. Still others are harmful, and some are even created for criminal purposes.
False tribes distort genuine Indian history to explain their very existence, and typically members know little about the true culture they claim to represent and have no language or real culture.
A battle for what it means to be an Indian tribe and a struggle for benefits provided to Indians is currently being waged by groups seeking to take away the identity and benefits that have been reserved to federally recognized Indian tribes. Hundreds of false Indian groups are claiming to be sovereign tribes and are teaching their own fabricated culture and history as if it were Indian. They apply for and receive aid from the same sources that fund the historic treaty based obligations intended for Indians. Yet they do not measure up to the credentials required of true tribes.
Aunt T

Dallas, TX

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#388
Oct 25, 2010
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
yes this is interesting comment and probably has some truth aunt T, the lumbee names such as Chavis,Chaves,Cheeves and words such as Juvem ba( a city in portugal) used by Lumbee ancestors points to a portuguese origin and so does the modern Dna results done at Lumbee websites R1 and L3 are southern european and black arfican Dna and it is the Main Dna found among Lumbees and is the definition of Lumbee Dna results.So if you have Lumbee Dna then you have R or L haplo types .So if you have Lumbee DNA you do not have Native Indian Dna but the European/african type.The Lumbee Dna project has not produced Native American Dna types,Indigenous Indian Dna types A,B,C,D are almost non-existant among Lumbee members.
It is also interesting to note that the slave ship the British freebooters got the Angolans they took to Jamestown from was Portuguese and Angola itself at the time was a Portuguese colony. I have no problem with the idea that Lumbee and Melungeon populations were and are mostly European/African American.

I used to believe that some of my ancestry was Cherokee. My grandfather would claim that or variously any one of a number of Eastern tribes. But I am glad that turned out not to be the case. I would be far less proud of Cherokee ancestry these days, particularly since they disenfranchised the descendants of their freedmen. It is terrible that the Cherokee have come to resemble white culture in one of its most dishonorable aspects, that is racism. Some of the comments I've read here have been truly awful. I am not talking about any of yours.

I fail to understand the level vitriol aimed at a people who for the most part were brought up to believe that they were descended from Native Americans. It was a strategy their ggg-grandparents evolved to let their children grow up with a modicum of dignity in the Jim Crow South.

You can harp on DNA all you want but I think that does not contain the heart and spirit of a culture. I think the Cherokee in particular are in danger of losing theirs. Sitting Bull said that the Sioux only became truly defeated when they started taking hand outs from the whites and accepting white culture. I see all this petty quarreling over casinos as the same sort of defeat. And truthfully I am sorry that the Lumbee want one too.

Anyway, what a vexed subject this is.
Ndn

Rock Hill, SC

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#389
Oct 25, 2010
 

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I do have to say that I'm married to a lumbee.When I go to Robsen county,the women their can pass as native women.Most of the guys their that I see or know,look like brothers to me.They got that brother hair,thats just my take on it!So with that said most of you are of African desendt,theirs nothing wrong with that so why run from it?
sam

United States

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#390
Oct 25, 2010
 

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the Lumbee reject african american history because it comes with no tribal or federal recognition as Indians and would reveal that the Lumbee identity was invented to cover that up a long time ago and they would feel ashamed after doing powows and such and giving their children false information.

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