Ukrainian politician contests Bandera heroization in court

Jan 27, 2010 | Posted by: coolncrazy | Full story: en.rian.ru

A second Ukrainian has challenged in court outgoing President Viktor Yushchenko's decree to declare Stepan Bandera, whom many see as a Nazi collaborator during WWII, a national hero.

Valery Golenko, chairman of the Lugansk regional council, asked the Lugansk regional administrative court to cancel the decree to award Bandera the Hero of Ukraine title as the title can only be granted to Ukrainian citizens for heroic deeds or labor achievements.

"Bandera never was a Ukrainian citizen," Golenko said, adding that even if Bandera had any merits, they had nothing to do with the establishment and development of an independent Ukraine.

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Small Town America UG X

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#1570
Mar 28, 2010
 

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Warrior Poet UG X wrote:
Ooooh- now he is calling names. Would you care to post some proof of your accusation? Nazi indeed-- what nonsense.
BTW what are beople?
Beople are really russian Bee people..They try to be reasonable but somehow do not have the ability and therefore must resort to trying to sting their brilliant opponents with their impotent stingers..lol..

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

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#1571
Mar 28, 2010
 

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Small Town America UG X wrote:
<quoted text>
Beople are really russian Bee people..They try to be reasonable but somehow do not have the ability and therefore must resort to trying to sting their brilliant opponents with their impotent stingers..lol..
With the levels of raw sewage and industrial wastes present in NJ this moron most certainly is the expert on the subject of impotency.:-)

Since: Mar 10

Smolensk, Russia

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#1572
Mar 28, 2010
 

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ana 8 wrote:
<quoted text>Rusychi is Rusychi in every translation. Whats your point?
My point is that Russians today think they are Rusichi somehow. Tell a Russian otherwise - he'll be quite surprised. Any reason why is that so?

And if to calm down a bit, ana8, and talk like adult intelligent people, I can tell that unlike your friends from UG X, able to try to insult only, you make some good points here and there, you do have some logics. But what's strange to me - is the way you try to protect Ukraine.

I'm a patriot of my country too (not a nationalist, though), and I mostly understand your feelings, but to me, protecting one's country is just to protect that country, not to pour shit to some other country or nation.

I mean, most of your posts are... quite agressive, so to say, and you know that youself. And you amongst others are responsible in forming an image of an average ukrainian to people on this forum. And that turns to be not a pretty image at all, sorry. You make people dislike ukrainians, and because of that - Ukraine itself. Is it such a wise behavior in means of national Ukrainian interests? Why not to make people love you, and through you - Ukraine? Or maybe just to be more calm and civilised, and not to give a damn on some things, not to be provocated so easily?(though I've been provocated to be "inpolite" a couple of times here too, I must admit)

Yes, there were some things former and today's russian governments have done that you might dislike. But hell, those are just governments, not people. And there are no members of russian government on this forum, I think. Most simple folks in Russia (me too) admit Ukraine's right to be free, independent and self-sufficient. And even maybe not most, but all of them. I've never heared an opinion like "No way! Ukraine must be Russian vassal and a province of Russian Empire". Really. Most russians call ukrainians "brothers-Slavs", and you might know that.

So my question is:
May be I don't see the full picture? May be there ARE some russians, whom you have a reason to be so mad at, as an ukrainian nationalist and patriot? Could you descend to the explanation, if you please? Because it confuses me, that being pro-russian doesn't mean being anti-ukrainian, but being pro-ukrainian turns to be anti-russian somehow.
Thank you.
Canuck

Canora, Canada

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#1573
Mar 29, 2010
 

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Warrior Poet UG X wrote:
Ooooh- now he is calling names. Would you care to post some proof of your accusation? Nazi indeed-- what nonsense.
BTW what are beople?
Tell us Slopserver, isn't it true that your lovely Ukrainko mail order milkmaid is genetically linked to those Ukrainians who fought with the Nazi horde?

“Ethically confused ”

Since: Feb 10

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#1574
Mar 29, 2010
 

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Mr_August wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is that Russians today think they are Rusichi somehow. Tell a Russian otherwise - he'll be quite surprised. Any reason why is that so?
And if to calm down a bit, ana8, and talk like adult intelligent people, I can tell that unlike your friends from UG X, able to try to insult only, you make some good points here and there, you do have some logics. But what's strange to me - is the way you try to protect Ukraine.
I'm a patriot of my country too (not a nationalist, though), and I mostly understand your feelings, but to me, protecting one's country is just to protect that country, not to pour shit to some other country or nation.
I mean, most of your posts are... quite agressive, so to say, and you know that youself. And you amongst others are responsible in forming an image of an average ukrainian to people on this forum. And that turns to be not a pretty image at all, sorry. You make people dislike ukrainians, and because of that - Ukraine itself. Is it such a wise behavior in means of national Ukrainian interests? Why not to make people love you, and through you - Ukraine? Or maybe just to be more calm and civilised, and not to give a damn on some things, not to be provocated so easily?(though I've been provocated to be "inpolite" a couple of times here too, I must admit)
Yes, there were some things former and today's russian governments have done that you might dislike. But hell, those are just governments, not people. And there are no members of russian government on this forum, I think. Most simple folks in Russia (me too) admit Ukraine's right to be free, independent and self-sufficient. And even maybe not most, but all of them. I've never heared an opinion like "No way! Ukraine must be Russian vassal and a province of Russian Empire". Really. Most russians call ukrainians "brothers-Slavs", and you might know that.
So my question is:
May be I don't see the full picture? May be there ARE some russians, whom you have a reason to be so mad at, as an ukrainian nationalist and patriot? Could you descend to the explanation, if you please? Because it confuses me, that being pro-russian doesn't mean being anti-ukrainian, but being pro-ukrainian turns to be anti-russian somehow.
Thank you.
Wow!!! Good post

“UG X”

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#1575
Mar 29, 2010
 
Mr_August wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is that Russians today think they are Rusichi somehow. Tell a Russian otherwise - he'll be quite surprised. Any reason why is that so?
There is no surprise there. Thats the way soviet history was presented in Soviet schools. You know very well that Russia didn't exist on the map till 17 century. It was Grand Duchy of Muscovy. Kyiv Rus fell in 13 century and the prime successor of it became Halych. In the early 13th century, Prince Roman Mstislavich united the two previously separate principalities, conquered Kiev, and assumed the title of Grand Duke of Kievan Rus&#8242;.
Mr_August wrote:
And if to calm down a bit, ana8, and talk like adult intelligent people, I can tell that unlike your friends from UG X, able to try to insult only, you make some good points here and there, you do have some logics. But what's strange to me - is the way you try to protect Ukraine.
What is so strange about it?
Mr_August wrote:
I'm a patriot of my country too (not a nationalist, though), and I mostly understand your feelings, but to me, protecting one's country is just to protect that country, not to pour shit to some other country or nation.
I do not pour shit on your country, only when it comes to "return the favor", if you know what I mean. I have nothing against Russians and Russian culture. ON the contrary I am a big fan of Russian literature and culture.
Mr_August wrote:
I mean, most of your posts are... quite agressive, so to say, and you know that youself.
They are not aggressive, they are precise and to the point!
Mr_August wrote:
And you amongst others are responsible in forming an image of an average ukrainian to people on this forum. And that turns to be not a pretty image at all, sorry.
Truth is not always pretty ,and not always easy to hear. But TRUTH remains TRUTh!

“UG X”

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#1576
Mar 29, 2010
 
Mr_August wrote:
<quoted text>
You make people dislike ukrainians,
On the contrary, I made people aware of Ukrainian history and its struggle for independence. Do I have aenemies! YES! ONLY FOOLS AND LOSERS HAVE NO ENEMIES! I am disliked and hated by Russian chauvinists and neo-fascists,liars and history revisionist that hate the very idea of Ukraine's existence. So what? It doesn't bother me a bit.
Mr_August wrote:
Is it such a wise behavior in means of national Ukrainian interests? Why not to make people love you, and through you - Ukraine?
To love Ukraine one has to be aware of its true history and its tragic past. To love Ukraine one has to face the TRUTH and look deep into its soul and intentions.
TO LOVE UKRAINE ONE HAS TO LEARN TO LOVE IT FOR IT NOT FOR ITS OWN SELFISH REASONS!
It is not easy to love Ukraine for those who see Ukraine only as sanitary corridor and the buffer zone mainly because its full of Ukrainians that call Ukraine a HOME!!!
Mr_August wrote:
Or maybe just to be more calm and civilised, and not to give a damn on some things, not to be provocated so easily?(though I've been provocated to be "inpolite" a couple of times here too, I must admit)
I don't take this forum seriously. Its just a damn forum, but what I find appalling is the remarks of the Russians leader who said that "You know ,George, Ukraine is not even a country"
Mr_August wrote:
Yes, there were some things former and today's russian governments have done that you might dislike. But hell, those are just governments, not people. And there are no members of russian government on this forum, I think. Most simple folks in Russia (me too) admit Ukraine's right to be free, independent and self-sufficient.
Not according to Putin which has wide support of Russian people. I don't remember Russian people voicing any judgement upon his words nor did he ever apologize for his words. that doesn't say much about Russian people at all. When it comes to Ukraine 68% of Russians see Ukraine as enemy due to widely spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda in Russia.
Mr_August wrote:
I've never heared an opinion like "No way! Ukraine must be Russian vassal and a province of Russian Empire".
Really? You are not following events in your own country then.

"After laying flowers on the leader of the South Russia government, Putin quoted Denikin’s suggestion that “no one must be allowed to interfere in relations between us, big and little Russia, Ukraine. This was always an affair of Russia itself!” And he added that Denikin considered that any movement toward disunity was “impermissible.”
According to Tikhon, Putin “recalled how he had read the memoirs of Denikin in which the latter said that despite his hostility to Soviet power, even to think about the dismemberment of Russia was a crime,… especially when one is talking about the Little Russian land – Ukraine”.

“UG X”

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#1577
Mar 29, 2010
 
Mr_August wrote:
<quoted text>
So my question is:
May be I don't see the full picture? May be there ARE some russians, whom you have a reason to be so mad at, as an ukrainian nationalist and patriot? Could you descend to the explanation, if you please? Because it confuses me, that being pro-russian doesn't mean being anti-ukrainian, but being pro-ukrainian turns to be anti-russian somehow.
Thank you.
It is the neo-fascist approach of Russian politics of Putin toward Ukraine that dictates the state of affairs at this time.
Being pro-Russian means to cow tail to wishes of Russia at expense of Ukraine. Being pro-Ukrainian means to put interest of independent Ukraine above all even if it meant to take a stand towards Russia's brazen demands.
Small Town America UG X

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#1578
Mar 29, 2010
 

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Mr_August wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is that Russians today think they are Rusichi somehow. Tell a Russian otherwise - he'll be quite surprised. Any reason why is that so?
And if to calm down a bit, ana8, and talk like adult intelligent people, I can tell that unlike your friends from UG X, able to try to insult only, you make some good points here and there, you do have some logics. But what's strange to me - is the way you try to protect Ukraine.
I'm a patriot of my country too (not a nationalist, though), and I mostly understand your feelings, but to me, protecting one's country is just to protect that country, not to pour shit to some other country or nation.
I mean, most of your posts are... quite agressive, so to say, and you know that youself. And you amongst others are responsible in forming an image of an average ukrainian to people on this forum. And that turns to be not a pretty image at all, sorry. You make people dislike ukrainians, and because of that - Ukraine itself. Is it such a wise behavior in means of national Ukrainian interests? Why not to make people love you, and through you - Ukraine? Or maybe just to be more calm and civilised, and not to give a damn on some things, not to be provocated so easily?(though I've been provocated to be "inpolite" a couple of times here too, I must admit)
Yes, there were some things former and today's russian governments have done that you might dislike. But hell, those are just governments, not people. And there are no members of russian government on this forum, I think. Most simple folks in Russia (me too) admit Ukraine's right to be free, independent and self-sufficient. And even maybe not most, but all of them. I've never heared an opinion like "No way! Ukraine must be Russian vassal and a province of Russian Empire". Really. Most russians call ukrainians "brothers-Slavs", and you might know that.
So my question is:
May be I don't see the full picture? May be there ARE some russians, whom you have a reason to be so mad at, as an ukrainian nationalist and patriot? Could you descend to the explanation, if you please? Because it confuses me, that being pro-russian doesn't mean being anti-ukrainian, but being pro-ukrainian turns to be anti-russian somehow.
Thank you.
There is a difference in "Protecting" your country, and protecting your one political party and dictaorship.

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Smolensk, Russia

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#1580
Mar 30, 2010
 
Small Town America UG X wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a difference in "Protecting" your country, and protecting your one political party and dictaorship.
Yes, such a difference exists, no doubt. We russians say "there is a great difference betveen the motherland and the state".

Since: Mar 10

Smolensk, Russia

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#1582
Mar 30, 2010
 
what I find appalling is the remarks of the Russians leader who said that "You know ,George, Ukraine is not even a country". I don't remember Russian people voicing any judgement upon his words nor did he ever apologize for his words.
Will that be a big surprise for you, if I tell you that this issue is unknown in Russia? Even if a word has ever spread over russian news, internet and mass-media, it definitely hasn't been enough to be widely noticed. On the other hand, don't you please expect it to be a big surprise for me if somebody would discover one day that it was just an ukrainian Ultras "Yellow Newspapers Duck" (or goose). Who really heared what from whom? But indeed, if he really said something like that, then similarily to you, I "find appalling the remarks of the Russians leader". But no audio record - no scandal for me by now. Presidents are not young boys to gasconade with who's got the longest nuke, I think Putin is smart enough to understand that. Maybe, that was "You know, Volodia, Ukraine is not even a country"? Not an impossible thing to hear from Bush:)
Me, I think that no matter how many times who is smaller than who. How many times who is smarter than who, that is the question. Many countries in the world could have taken a better look at modern Japan, for example. They develop like hell, but seem to live longer and longer.
Not according to Putin which has wide support of Russian people. That doesn't say much about Russian people at all.
And on that I beg your pardon, but the dude started up with finishing the war in Chechnya. Since then our boys weren't coming back home in zinc. He made some noticible things after that. It's hard to expect people to begin supporting him less that easily.
When it comes to Ukraine 68% of Russians see Ukraine as enemy due to widely spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda in Russia.
Russians in most cases see Ukraine as enemy because of being well-aware of widely spread anti-Russian propaganda in Ukraine. You may trust me also on that. And it's not 68%, it's less. Well, at least by now.
Being pro-Russian means to cow tail to wishes of Russia at expense of Ukraine.
Being pro-Russian means to put interests of free Russia above all
Being pro-Ukrainian means to put interest of independent Ukraine above all even if it meant to take a stand towards Russia's brazen demands.
KREMLIN'S brazen demands, ana8, Kremlin's brazen demands. Russia is Russian People, that's THE problem. Saying Russia's you say Russian People's. We demand nothing from our Ukrainian brothers.(Except, maybe, stopping the anti-russian propaganda on the west. Start anti-kremlin propaganda, anti-Putin propaganda, anti-imperialist propaganda, pro-ukrainan propaganda at last, but stop the anti-russian-people "moskali" propaganda, please).
-----
Well, now it starts to make some sence to me.
Being pro-ukrainian doesn't mean being anti-russian, but it means being anti-kremlin sometimes.
Well, that's not all that bad, after all. You know, being pro-russian means being anti-kremlin sometimes, either.
And on:
Truth is not always pretty, and not always easy to hear. But TRUTH remains TRUTh!
I can answer I completely agree with that statement. And may none of us ever forget that, no matter what he belives now.
Good luck to you there, brave and proud woman. Sorry for calling you a "bitch" that time, really. I'm a man-grenade, generally calm, but would explode sometimes. You've been kicking around hard that day too:) Mammals males don't like it when someone touches what's his, even his mere opinions.(Although, they are still of my own and are still mostly with me) Beg your pardon again.
Jesus Crist save all Slav peoples.
Amen.

Since: Mar 10

Smolensk, Russia

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#1584
Mar 30, 2010
 
Ooops, I've posted that big one tvise. Stupid me! Should have slept a bit last night:)
brit

Nottingham, UK

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#1585
Mar 30, 2010
 
Well Mr August has excelled himself and posted a comment in which he shows not only sense but some humility... so for this lets say there is the basis for dialogue with him ..... well done

“UG X”

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#1586
Mar 30, 2010
 
brit wrote:
Well Mr August has excelled himself and posted a comment in which he shows not only sense but some humility... so for this lets say there is the basis for dialogue with him ..... well done
Agreed! He sounds like a sensible man!
PeskySloWvakEngl ishspeak

Edison, NJ

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#1587
Mar 30, 2010
 

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I just heard me an my Engliz is the most sensible here.

“Trust no one in politics.”

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Pompano Beach, FL

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#1588
Mar 30, 2010
 

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PeskySloWvakEnglishspeak wrote:
I just heard me an my Engliz is the most sensible here.
Is illiteracy seen as a virtue throughout NJ or is it just AbeUG?
Pro Ukraine UG

Emsworth, UK

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#1589
Mar 31, 2010
 

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ana 8 wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed! He sounds like a sensible man!
Come on you 2, praising the "enemy", we've almost got rid of stefanya crappola and robocrap, we're not going to have anyone left to argue with in a bit:).

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Mar 31, 2010
 

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Pro Ukraine UG wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on you 2, praising the "enemy", we've almost got rid of stefanya crappola and robocrap, we're not going to have anyone left to argue with in a bit:).
At least he is an enemy that deserves respect for making an effort to have a civil conversation. Stefanya is not an enemy....She is more of thing that get stuck to the bottom of the shoe in the cow field....LOL!
Don't worry... I haven't let my guard down!:)
Pro Ukraine UG

Emsworth, UK

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Mar 31, 2010
 

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ana 8 wrote:
<quoted text>At least he is an enemy that deserves respect for making an effort to have a civil conversation. Stefanya is not an enemy....She is more of thing that get stuck to the bottom of the shoe in the cow field....LOL!
Don't worry... I haven't let my guard down!:)
You're right, at least he backs up his arguments with facts, I already refer to cow shit as Stefanya, as in oh no I've just stood in some Stefanya, LOL:).

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