Coldest Air in More Than a Year to Grip Eastern Europe

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
LOL....I think you meant "Ukrainian," like the ones who ate their own during their famous so called holodomor.

holodomor was "The Gold Age of Prosperity" for your parents?
Birds from canucckies like dead bodies, they are havenot the courage to hunt alive animals.
So now is hard time for, bird of death?

How pathetic-- many people all over Europe are freezing, many to death, and all that you guys can do is toss insults etc. back and forth. The Europen mindset is unbelievable. HOw pathetic.

Boris Kulovsky wrote:

<quoted text> This is a greatly exagerated myth. It is true... Ukrainian Kulaks and serdniks and even bidnyaks in Kharkov, ukraine on the border with Russia during collectivization in the early 1930s killeddozens of Soviet Red Army Agitators and Commissars in Ukraine and some were indeed boiled and cooked, but that was so they could feed the Russian Soviets to the pigs.The whole Holodomor was probably exaggerated, but it is true russian commissars trying to collectivize in Ukraine, were caught, boiled alive with a red flag and their caps and fed to the pigs, as the pigs were starving during the Holodomor too and ukrainians by nature were always kind to their livestaock.

I agree that the holodomor was exaggerated but a lot of Ukrainian people did starve, in part because of Stalin’s collectivization policy.
I’m surprised to read that the Ukrainians fed their pigs better than their children.
I remember reading about a list of 25 highest officials responsible for the holodomor published in Ukraine.
Out of the 25 officials, 23 were Ukrainian NKVD who, with the Ukrainian Bolsheviks, were going from village to village confiscating food from the Ukrainian peasants and kulaks.
During the time, up to 20% of the Red army was made up of Ukrainians which was a very high percentage considering the Soviet Union was made up of many countries.
I think it was mostly the Ukrainian Commissars that the Ukrainians were boiling alive and feeding them to their pigs. These Ukrainian fed pigs must have been finger lickin good.

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that the holodomor was exaggerated but a lot of Ukrainian people did starve, in part because of Stalin’s collectivization policy.
I’m surprised to read that the Ukrainians fed their pigs better than their children.
I remember reading about a list of 25 highest officials responsible for the holodomor published in Ukraine.
Out of the 25 officials, 23 were Ukrainian NKVD who, with the Ukrainian Bolsheviks, were going from village to village confiscating food from the Ukrainian peasants and kulaks.
During the time, up to 20% of the Red army was made up of Ukrainians which was a very high percentage considering the Soviet Union was made up of many countries.
I think it was mostly the Ukrainian Commissars that the Ukrainians were boiling alive and feeding them to their pigs. These Ukrainian fed pigs must have been finger lickin good.

The majority of Ukrainian SSR nationals, including those of jewish, ukrainian , russian ,german ethnic origins all resisted collectivization. The difference between russian and ukrainian languages is a distinction without a difference.People speak both in Ukraine with ease. The only distinguishing feature was that the NKVD and Red commissars , and Young Communist Brigades were loyal to Soviet Moscow,or the Moscow controlled Kiev Communist Government, so whether they were NKVD ukrainians or russians or jews was irrelevant. It is true , many commissars and NKVD set out to villages to collectivize and never returned, and were killed.All of the Ukrainian grain was confiscated in 1932 in Ukraine as well as in the Ukrainian settled areas of Rusia in Kuban, and Voronezh . It was theft and murder by hunger,by Soviet Moscow, so the farmers did what they could to defend themselves. The Ukrainian SSR took the biggest hit at about 70% of deaths but 30% died in the RSFSR and the Belarusian SSR. Lev Kopelev ,a Ukrainian- Jewish collectivization agitator describes this well in his book, and regretted his actions to the end of his life.Yes , Ukrainians along with Russians certainly were heavily involved too in collectivization. The murder by hunger scenario generated by the soviets is an eternal disgrace to russians and ukrainians both, and both countries know it.It is a permanent historical stain on the national character of both russia and ukraine and demonstrates a lack of cultural development on the part of russians and ukrainians both.Those folks just were not as culturally developed as the west, and they are still behind in many areas.Ukes and Russkis are two peas in the same pod on this issue. They were both absolutely crazy and uncivilized during the Holodomor or Famine as you call it.

Lev Kopelev: Terror in the Countryside (Holodomor)

In 1929 Joseph Stalin, the Communist leader, started a revolution that would transform the Soviet Union’s economy. A major aspect of the Stalin revolution consisted of forced collectivization of agriculture. From 1929-1933, the collectivization drive met resistance, resulting in the liquidation of an estimated five million successful peasants called Kulaks.[1] In 1978, Lev Kopelev published a series of memoirs recalling his experiences as a militant participant in the collectivization drive of agriculture.[2] Terror in the Countryside is a reflection which accurately describes the motivation and state of mind of Kopelev as a participant in Stalin’s collectivization drive.

Kopelev’s reflection begins with justification for why he was a participant in the collectivization drive. He believed that he and other participants were warriors fighting against the kulak sabotage of the five-year plan.[3] The five-year plan, created by Stalin, was intended to jump-start Soviet Union’s economy. However, it met resistance successful peasants and therefore could not develop as proposed.[4] Kopelev states that the kulaks did not understand communism, thus they contributed greatly to the Soviet Union’s struggle for socialism. As a response to the actions of the kulaks, participants in the drive would tour the countryside looking for agricultural goods. One of the most extreme forms of coercion used against the kulaks was “undisputed confiscation”, in which a hut would be raided and in most cases stripped of everything. Kopelev states that he was present at many of the raids and was entrusted to created inventories based on the confiscated items. He then reflects on the screaming voices of the women and the defeatist attitude of the fathers. He then asks himself “how could this all of happened? How could I have participated in it?”[5]

The following part of Kopelev’s reflection describes his motivation for participating in the collectivization drive. Kopelev states that he and many others were raised as believers in Stalin. To Kopelev, Stalin was the reliable and dependable high priest. He trusted in him unconditionally and had faith in his five-year plan. Kopelev continues his argument by stating that he believed unconditional collectivization was necessary if the five-year plan was to succeed and that the ends justified the means. He states that in his mind the great overall goal was Communism and that he and other youthful Stalinist would stop at nothing to achieve it.[6]

Terror in the Countryside remains an accurate portrayal of a youthful Stalinist. Although wrote many years after the collectivization drive, Kopelev’s work provides valuable insight on the motivation and mind set of a militant participant in Stalin’s revolution. Kopelev states numerous times in his memoirs that he truly believed the ends justified the means. This line by itself accurate answers Kopelev’s two questions:“how could this all of happened? And how could I have participated in it?”[7] Other participants in the drive had the same mindset and were all believers in the infallible Stalin. They wanted to achieve Communism because they believed it was great and they stopped at nothing to achieve it.

Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government officials varied greatly; anywhere from 1.8[5] to 12 million[6] ethnic Ukrainians were said to have been killed as a result of the famine. Recent research has since narrowed the estimates to between 2.4[7] and 7.5[8] million. The exact number of deaths is hard to determine, due to a lack of records,[9][10] but the number increases significantly when the deaths inside heavily Ukrainian-populated Kuban are included.[11] The demographic deficit caused by unborn or unrecorded births is said to be as high as 6 million.[9] Older estimates are still often cited in political commentary.[1

Jewish Witnesses on the Ukrainian Famine
The documents reproduced below were written by eyewitnesses of Jewish background. This fact has a double significance. First, their authors cannot be accused of Ukrainian bias. Second, their testimony is valuable. They too belonged to a nation which had been persecuted and thus the authors were able to both understand and empathize with the sufferings of others.
VASILY GROSSMAN, a Russian language journalist and writer worked in the Donbas region of Ukraine in the early 1930s and saw the famine with his own eyes. In his autobiographical novel, Forever Flowing, he describes life under Stalin, and devotes two touching chapters to the famine in Ukraine (Ch. 14 & 15). The novel is also available in French (Tout passe, Paris, 1972), and in Russian (Vse techet. Frankfurt, 1970). Excerpts have been published in the Ukrainian Journal (Suchasnist).
LEV KOPELEV, a journalist and a writer, was a young Communist activist in the 1930s. He was part of the cadres responsible for implementing Stalin's genocidal policies in Ukraine. His memoirs, The Education of a True Believer, published after the author's emigration to the West, reads like a confession and a testimony.
1- Vasily Grossman, Forever Flowing, New York: Harper & Row, 1972
(Chapter 14).
I don't want to remember it. It is terrible. But I can't forget it. It just keeps on living within me; whether or not it slumbers, it is still there. A piece of iron in my heart, like a shell fragment. Something one cannot escape. I was fully adult when it all happened...
No, there was no famine during the campaign to liquidate the kulaks. Only the horses died. The famine came in 1932, the second year after the campaign to liquidate the kulaks...
And so, at the beginning of 1930, they began to liquidate the kulak families. The height of the fever was in February and March. They expelled them from their home districts so that when it was time for sowing there would be no kulaks left, so that a new life could begin. That is what we all said it would be: "the first collective farm spring."...
Our new life began without the co-called "kulaks". They started to force people to join the collective farms. Meetings were underway from morning on. There were shouts and curses. Some of them shouted: "We will not join!"...
And we thought, fools that we were, that there could be no fate worse than that of the kulaks. How wrong we were! The axe fell upon the peasants right where they stood, on large and small alike. The execution by famine had arrived. By this time I no longer washed floors but was a book-keeper instead. And, as a Party activist, I was sent to Ukraine in order to strengthen a collective farm. In Ukraine, we were told, they had an instinct for private property that was stronger than in the Russian Republic. And truly, truly, the whole business was much worse in Ukraine...
Moscow assigned grain production and delivery quotas to the provinces, and the provinces then assigned them to the districts. And our village was given a quota that it couldn't have fulfilled in ten years! In the village rada (council) even those who weren't drinkers took to drink out of terror...
Of course, the grain deliveries could not be fulfilled. Smaller areas had been sown, and the crop yield on those smaller areas had shrunk. So where could it come from, that promised ocean of grain from the collective farms? The conclusion reached up top was that the grain had all been concealed, hidden away. By kulaks who had not yet been liquidated, by loafers! The "kulaks" had been removed, but the "kulak" spirit remained. Private property was master over the minds of the Ukrainian peasant.
Who was it who then signed the act which imposed mass murder?... For the decree required that the peasants of Ukraine, the Don, and the Kuban be put to death by starvation, put to death along with their tiny children.

Everyone was in terror. Mothers looked at their children and began to scream in fear. They screamed as if a snake had crept into their house. And this snake was famine, starvation, death...

And here, under the government of workers and peasants, not even one kernel of grain was given them. There were blockades along all the highways, where militia, NKVD men, troops were stationed; the starving people were not to be allowed into the cities. Guards surrounded all the railroad stations. There were guards at even the tiniest of whistle stops. No bread for you, breadwinners!... And the peasant children in the villages got not one gram. That is exactly how the Nazis put the Jewish children into the Nazi gas chambers: "You are not allowed to live, you are all Jews!" And it was impossible to understand, grasp, comprehend. For these children were Soviet children, and those who were putting them to death were Soviet people...

Death from starvation mowed down the village. First the children, then the old people, then those of middle age. At first they dug graves and buried them, and then as things got worse they stopped. Dead people lay there in the yards, and in the end they remained in their huts. Things fell silent. The whole village died. Who died last I do not know. Those of us who worked in the collective farm administration were taken off to the city...

Before they had completely lost their strength, the peasants went on foot across country to the railroad. Not to the stations where the guards kept them away, but to the tracks. And when the Kyiv-Odesa express came past, they would just kneel there and cry: "Bread, bread!" They would lift up their horrible starving children for people to see. And sometimes people would throw them pieces of bread and other scraps. The train would thunder on past, and the dust would settle down, and the whole village would be there crawling along the tracks, looking for crusts. But an order was issued that whenever trains were travelling through the famine provinces the guards were to shut the windows and pull down the curtains. Passengers were not allowed at the windows...

And the peasants kept crawling from village into the city. All the stations were surrounded by guards. All the trains were searched. Everywhere along the roads were roadblocks -- troops, NKVD. Yet despite all this the peasants made their way into Kyiv. They would crawl through the fields, through empty lots, through the swamps, through the woods -- anywhere to bypass the roadblocks set up for them. They were unable to walk; all they could do was crawl...

What I found out later was that everything fell silent in our village... I found out that troops were sent in to harvest the winter wheat. The army men were not allowed to enter the village, however. They were quartered in their tents. They were told there had been an epidemic. But they kept complaining that a horrible stink was coming from the village. The troops stayed to plant the spring wheat too. And the next year new settlers were brought in from Orel Province (Russia). This was the rich Ukrainian land, the black earth, whereas the Orel peasants were accustomed to frequent harvest failures.


2 -- Lev Kopelev, The Education of a True Believer. New York: Harper & Row, 1980.(Chapter IX "The Last Grain Collections")

The Myrhorod district had not fulfilled its plan of grain collection in December 1932. The oblast committee dispatched a visiting delegation of two newspapers, the Socialist Kharkiv Register and our Locomotive Worker, to issue news sheets in the lagging vi

Register and our Locomotive Worker, to issue news sheets in the lagging villages. There were four of us: two lads from Myrhorod -- a typesetter and a printer; and two from Kharkiv -- my assistant Volodya and myself...

The highest measure of coercion on the hard-core holdouts was "undisputed confiscation."

A team consisting of several young kolhospnyks and members of the village rada, led as a rule by Vashchenko himself, would search the hut, barn, yard, and take away all the stores of seed, lead away the cow, the horse, the pigs... Several times Volodia and I were present at such plundering raids. We even took part: we were entrusted to draw up inventories of the confiscated goods... The women howled hysterically, clinging to the bags-...

I heard the children echoing them with screams, choking, coughing with screams. And I saw the looks of the men: frightened, pleading, hateful, dully impassive, extinguished with despair or flaring up with half-mad, daring ferocity...

And I persuaded myself, explained to myself I mustn't give in to debilitating pity. We were realising historical necessity. We were performing our revolutionary duty. We were obtaining grain for the socialist fatherland, for the five-year plan.

Some sort of rationalistic fanaticism overcame my doubts, my pangs of conscience and simple feelings of sympathy, pity and shame, but this fanaticism was nourished not only by speculative newspaper and literary sources. More convincing than these were people who in my eyes embodied, personified our truth and our justice, people who continued with their lives that it was necessary to clench your teeth, clench your heart and carry out everything the party and the Soviet power ordered....

I have always remembered the winter of the last grain collections, the weeks of the great famine. And I have always told about it. But I did not begin to write it down until many years later.

And while I wrote the rough drafts and read them to friends, questions arose... Questions put to history, the present day, myself.

How could all this have happened? Who was guilty of the famine which destroyed millions of lives? How could I have participated in it?...

On December 27 [1932], the Central Committee issued a ruling on passports: they were to be introduced for city residents in order to facilitate "the counting of the population, the unburdening of the cities and the purging of kulak criminal elements from the cities."

But in fact the passport system laid an administrative and juridical cornerstone for the new serfdom; it provided one of the foundations for an unparalleled state totalitarianism. The "kulak elements" of which the cities should be cleansed proved to be all peasants who had left the countryside without the express permission of the local authorities. Once again the passport system tied down the peasantry, as it had before the emancipation of 1861.

In February 1933 I was sick... My father arrived after a trip through the provinces, where he had been checking on the preparations for planting sugar beets. He sat hunched over; his face was dark and his eyes inflamed, as if after a bout of malaria. But he was not emaciated. People don't go hungry at the sugar refineries...

Father was gloomy and immediately let into me. "Everything is done for! Do you understand? No grain in the village! I'm not talking about the Central Workers Co-op or the city story, but the village. The grain growers are dying of starvation! Not some derelict. tramps, not some unemployed Americans, but the Ukrainian grain growers are dying from want of grain! And my dear little boy helped to take it away."

Who was it who then signed the act which imposed mass murder?... For the decree required that the peasants of Ukraine, the Don, and the Kuban be put to death by starvation, put to death along with their tiny children. The instructions were to take away the entire seed fund. Grain was searched for as if it were not grain but bombs and machine guns. The whole earth was stabbed with bayonets and ramrods. Cellars were dug up, floors were broken through, and vegetable gardens were turned over. From some they confiscated grain, and dust hung over the earth. And there were no grain elevators to accommodate it, and they simply dumped it out on the earth and set guards around it. By winter the grain had been soaked by the rains and began to ferment -- the Soviet government didn't even have enough canvases to cover it up!...

Fathers and mothers wanted to save their children and hid a tiny bit of grain, and they were told: "You hate the country of socialism. You are trying to make the plan fail, you parasites, you pro-kulaks, you rats." ... The entire seed fund had been confiscated...

Everyone was in terror. Mothers looked at their children and began to scream in fear. They screamed as if a snake had crept into their house. And this snake was famine, starvation, death...

Who was it who then signed the act which imposed mass murder?... For the decree required that the peasants of Ukraine, the Don, and the Kuban be put to death by starvation, put to death along with their tiny children. The instructions were to take away the entire seed fund. Grain was searched for as if it were not grain but bombs and machine guns. The Russians and Ukrainian and Jewish communists did this......to their own people.

Lukashenko is Dr Phil wrote:

We Finns look down at all Slavs, because when I was five, my Sammi- Finnish Grandfather showed me a globe of the world and said... look where Finland is !!!, it is on top of Russia , on top of all the Slavs and even Germans, British and especially jews and africans and the whole world even. All Finns are taught about " Global World Supremacy of Finns" this way. Since then , I have known that Finns are number one and on top of everyone . My Sammi grandpa was smart and lived in a shed on the farm , but one day when she was ragging during her time of month my mum had to shoot him , when he ate the family dog because he wanted some meat to dry for the winter as Sammi do. I still have the globe , grandpa gave me though. Got to go and see the brain doctor now for my thoughts. I am proud to be a Finn still. I hope to see the Norwegian guy Anders Brevik, soon at the same hospital where he will be living from now until forever. I want to show him my cartoons. He is my hero.Yes Finns are numero Uno in the world.Yes it is true... it is .... we are on top.Always. Grandpa said so.

Your impersonation failed miserably, sorry.

All finnic peoples know that in our languages north is equated with the bottom, with the base.

But yes, we are numero uno in these parts of the world.
Breivik is just an aryan wannabe.
Aryan culture came from the south, just as all the recent immigrants. Saamis and finnic peoples have been here since the last ice age. Komis even during the ice age.

Amicuska you stupid dairy farmer where you been hiding. In Grodno or profartys home village.

tarmo wrote:

<quoted text>
Your impersonation failed miserably, sorry.
All finnic peoples know that in our languages north is equated with the bottom, with the base.
But yes, we are numero uno in these parts of the world.
Breivik is just an aryan wannabe.
Aryan culture came from the south, just as all the recent immigrants. Saamis and finnic peoples have been here since the last ice age. Komis even during the ice age.

I think he meant Lucy and his mother , father, grandfather were retarded and nuts, which seems correct.Finnlansd is known as the land of depression , alcohol and suicide. Finns are incapable of smiling, but do smile once ,when they put the rope around thir own necks and hang themselves. Very odd people those Finns.They are albinized finno ugric mongols with high cheekbones, really so they are nutty mixed breed of oddities. The Finnishwoman do f like crazy though, but the guys are weird solitary freaks and don't notice their own women.

Dimitri100 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am Dimitri100. My first three letters define me quite well. I am dim. Very, very dim. Like as in dimwit. Who are you?

You are the COWARDLY, and despicable, unscrupled idiot, hiding behind your computer monitor and stealing the monikers of legitimate posters, because you are too CRAVEN to use your own moniker to spew your CRAPPOLA.

NO matter how many monikers he steals from legitimate posters,

It will always, only be one disgusting perverted poster, small-minded town american bigot who is too cowardly to post from his own moniker.

Stefanya wrote:

NO matter how many monikers he steals from legitimate posters,
It will always, only be one disgusting perverted poster, small-minded town american bigot who is too cowardly to post from his own moniker.

my bad!

The value of Ukraine to a Russia with more Muslims July 05, 2008 12:00 AM By Andrei Piontkovsky

But Russia's self-destructive confrontation with the West can be halted, and its centuries-old debate between Westernizers and the Slavophiles put to rest once and for all. This, however, will depend on Ukraine's success on the path of European development it chose in the Orange Revolution of 2004-2005.

Ukraine does, indeed, present a threat, but not to Russia's security, as Kremlin propagandists claim. The real threat is to the Putin model of a corporate, authoritarian state, unfriendly to the West. For the Kremlin's occupants, it is a matter of life and death that countries that were once part of the Soviet Union, but chose a different model of development (Ukraine being the chief example), should never become attractive to ordinary Russians.

The example posed by the Baltic nations does not threaten the Kremlin much, because they are perceived as foreign to the Russian psyche. Indeed, in Soviet films, Baltic actors were usually cast in the roles of Nazi generals and American spies. Ukrainians, on the other hand, are close to Russians in their culture and mentality. If they made a different choice, why can't Russians do the same?

Ukraine's success will mark the political death of Putinism, that squalid philosophy of "KGB Capitalists." If Ukraine succeeds in its European choice, if it is able to make it work, it can settle the question that has bedeviled Russian culture for centuries: Russia or the West? So the best way to help Russia today is to support Ukraine's claim that it belongs to Europe and its institutions. This will influence Russia's political mentality more than anything else.

For if Russia's anti-Western paranoia continues and the Kremlin's Eurasian fantasy of allying with China lasts another 10-15 years, Russia will end up seeing China swallowing its Far East and Siberia. Indeed, the weakened Russia that will be Vladimir Putin's legacy will then also lose the Northern Caucasus and the Volga region to their growing Muslim populations.

The remaining Russian lands would then have no other choice but to attach themselves to Ukraine, which should by then have become a successful member of the European Union. After 1,000 years, Russia will have come full circle, returning to Kievan Rus after wandering on the roads of the Mongol hordes, empire, communism, and farcical Putinism.

So Russia now has a choice: Ukrainian plan A or Ukrainian plan B.

Don't you silly, hate-filled fools EVER say anything relting to the topic of the thread? Maybe taking time out from your insults is just too too difficult.

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that the holodomor was exaggerated but a lot of Ukrainian people did starve, in part because of Stalin’s collectivization policy.
I’m surprised to read that the Ukrainians fed their pigs better than their children.
I remember reading about a list of 25 highest officials responsible for the holodomor published in Ukraine.
Out of the 25 officials, 23 were Ukrainian NKVD who, with the Ukrainian Bolsheviks, were going from village to village confiscating food from the Ukrainian peasants and kulaks.
During the time, up to 20% of the Red army was made up of Ukrainians which was a very high percentage considering the Soviet Union was made up of many countries.
I think it was mostly the Ukrainian Commissars that the Ukrainians were boiling alive and feeding them to their pigs. These Ukrainian fed pigs must have been finger lickin good.

INteresting and most grusomely correct. And as the Ukraine was the main agricultural area in the Soviet Union, it makes sense that there would be a greater percentage of farmers.