Ghost say: Leave me alone!

livingdeadPeg wrote:

<quoted text>
TAPS doesn't go along with anything but the truth...so screw you

Hey livingdeadpeg.....there will always be skeptics, until it happens to them......we know what we know. Jason and Grant always try to debunk a haunting first, so what can they do if they get actual evidence like an evp. Wasn't the GhostHunter show the most watched show on cable last year....so I really see no need for them to fake anything for ratings.....you tell 'em peg!!

Every night when I am in bed I hear a voice say "Leave me alone"

Chuck C wrote:

Where is the link?
Also when you go to thier site in scfi.com thewre also is no link for that episode.
Very disappointed.

Here you go...http://www.scifi.com/ghos thunters/

funnyguy wrote:

THIS do do about ghosts lol FORT NIAGARA has a better one A soldier was be headed & his head was thrown down the well his body in the lake lore has it the body comes ashore at eavening looking for its head the fort floor made of wood creakes % has wet foot prints in the well a voice sayes Im here lol have fun

I've heard that one as well how ever the shore of Lake ontario used to be about 300 feet past the back of the fort. Also if you throw a head down your only water source in the fort. the rets o fthe folks in there would tend to frown on that.. It makkes for a good story. but if you go into the under ground part that faces the park that is pretty creepy

I'm sorry sir, but you may want to study up on some things prior to touting yourself as an "expert" of the paranormal.

Do you by chance know what auditory pareidolia? Or, here's another one for you: Do you know how microphones even work, and why it would be prone to capturing either radio transmissions, or anything else for that matter?

Have you been in that building to sample the acoustics? The walls are so thin, you can record audio of people talking outside.

Or better yet, can you be assured of the truthfulness of the owners, and be assured they didn't stage any of it (Funny, the owner just happened to have a brother lain out there?)

Or even the 30 urns of ashes? Well, the number jumped from the last news article on it when they originally took over the building. It was originally 7 urns, not 30.

I think you may need to perform a little more research prior to shooting your mouth off about what skeptics know, or what skeptics don't understand.

broncolvr99 wrote:

If you're scared admit it! If you don't believe then why are you concerning yourselves? TAPS are the most obvious proof catchers! They have it on film and tape and have their own experiences! Everyone wants proof and they give it to us! Go check out Ironisland on the web! You can visit there and see for yourself, You can set up your own ghost hunt ! We already made our appointment. Skeptics are people who don't understand.

Boo!

I volunteer at the museum and am friends with the Hastreiters, who are lovely people. Trust me, if you come to the museum you will not be disappointed. It is definitley haunted.

Peg52 wrote:

I volunteer at the museum and am friends with the Hastreiters, who are lovely people. Trust me, if you come to the museum you will not be disappointed. It is definitley haunted.

Haha. I've been in the building before it was obtained by the current owners. Haunted, meh, maybe. But there are 1,001 things to debunk everything that TAPS found there.

1) The EVPs - Radio cross-modulation, especially likely since there is a Police Station down the street broadcasting at 50+ Watts, to a repeater station directly in line with the facility; which are even further facilitated by the inexpensive audio recording equipemt being used (RCA Voice Recorders, etc).
2) The EVPs - the facility's walls are so thin, that anyone speaking in any part of the bldg can be recorded in any other part of the bldg, and taking into account frequency shifts, could sound like a completely different voice.
3) The door locking/unlocking sound - Door was not properly locked (not totally latched), and the cooling of the metal would cause it to snap back into the unlocked position.
4) "OMG it's coming right for us!!" - How can you see something, in pitch dark coming right for you? You can see a shadow in the dark? Interesting. Why not just leave the lights on, wouldn't it be easier to see the shadow? Wouldn't the more likely reason for seeing something moving was the flashlight being used was casting odd shadows? Occam's Razor, please.

These are just a sample. They lied [The current owners of the building] about the number of urns found(If you like, I can re-find the article and link here), and taking that one major point, what else could be less than forthcoming?

And is it odd, that no reports of paranormal phenomena was reported here prior to the current owners taking over, and now that they're hitting some financial rough times its "WOW HAUNTED!", on TAPS, and to WIVB reporter, they are basically begging people to come in (At $30/head wow) and wander around in a dark building, after being featured on Ghost Hunters!

Occam's Razor again, the place is haunted (Of which not much proof) or this is a money making ploy to earn extra revenue?

Ok, let me change my wording, they may not have lied, but were inaccurate. Given that, what else may be inaccurate?

So, Peg52, not much left to say, huh? Where is this "certain knowledge" the place is haunted. Give me 5-6 hours in there and I can more than likely debunk every claim found there.

Skeptic wrote:

<quoted text>
Haha. I've been in the building before it was obtained by the current owners. Haunted, meh, maybe. But there are 1,001 things to debunk everything that TAPS found there.
1) The EVPs - Radio cross-modulation, especially likely since there is a Police Station down the street broadcasting at 50+ Watts, to a repeater station directly in line with the facility; which are even further facilitated by the inexpensive audio recording equipemt being used (RCA Voice Recorders, etc).
2) The EVPs - the facility's walls are so thin, that anyone speaking in any part of the bldg can be recorded in any other part of the bldg, and taking into account frequency shifts, could sound like a completely different voice.
3) The door locking/unlocking sound - Door was not properly locked (not totally latched), and the cooling of the metal would cause it to snap back into the unlocked position.
4) "OMG it's coming right for us!!" - How can you see something, in pitch dark coming right for you? You can see a shadow in the dark? Interesting. Why not just leave the lights on, wouldn't it be easier to see the shadow? Wouldn't the more likely reason for seeing something moving was the flashlight being used was casting odd shadows? Occam's Razor, please.
These are just a sample. They lied [The current owners of the building] about the number of urns found(If you like, I can re-find the article and link here), and taking that one major point, what else could be less than forthcoming?
And is it odd, that no reports of paranormal phenomena was reported here prior to the current owners taking over, and now that they're hitting some financial rough times its "WOW HAUNTED!", on TAPS, and to WIVB reporter, they are basically begging people to come in (At $30/head wow) and wander around in a dark building, after being featured on Ghost Hunters!
Occam's Razor again, the place is haunted (Of which not much proof) or this is a money making ploy to earn extra revenue?

Now time for my personal debunking!
1) As tech specialist of my group, I've done extensive research on this, and have never come across proof of this happening.
2) They only send 2-3 people in at a time, and they're all together. True the walls are thin, but they do resist some, and someone talking 2 rooms down can't be heard there, and people full out laughing 3 rooms down can barely be heard.
3) That doors was latched tight, as they showed in the replay, and there's no way that a 10 degree cooling from night to day would make it move that much for the mechanism to snap back.
4)It wasn't pitch dark, there is an LED built into the camera that they leave on, we specifically asked them that when we met them. Plus, you know the footsteps... And there is nothing in the middle or that room to cast a shadow that could be mistaken as a person running at you. It's bare rafters, and there's plywood covering the stained glass windows.
They didn't lie about the urn, I've always been told there were 30 or so, and that was since February, long before they applied for the show.
It's been haunted for a long time. Do you really think a person that works with dead people into the night is going to be bothered with the paranormal? I don't think so.
We met Jason and Grant, and they're two of the nicest people I've met. They took time before the Reveal to meet our group, and delayed the Reveal taping to meet us, because they were late getting there.
People have gone there to investigate long before TAPS ever went there, and have gotten very solid evidence. I've gotten a lot myself too.
And they charge $30 a person so that only serious groups come, not just people like you who are only there to infringe on people's beliefs in the paranormal, say that the owners are liars, and just mess around, and endanger the artifacts that are displayed there.

This episode was full of lies and bull just like our politicians! Maybe it was Sammy with an intern making all that noise!!!!lolololo

As for never seeing proof of the radio signal being picked up by sound equipment:
http://www.alectrosystems.com/tips/audio_tips...
So, how extensive was this research? Google is your friend. Were the recorders in a faraday cage? You know, since you're the tech specialist, you must know what one is? And, you must understand the principles of a controlled environment. Am I right?
Infringing on people's rights to believe? Where did I say you can't believe whatever ridiculousness you like.
2-3 people at a time? During the show, I counted two groups of two in there any particular time. Yes, pickups from other rooms, combined with frequency shifts can make this sound like a completely different voice (Cross-cancellation, etc).
10 degrees can't cause that? Well, since you are scientific, can I assume Celsius (The accepted standard of temperature measurement)? Or do you use Fahrenheit? I'll assume Fahrenheit. But here's another google link to show it (Hint, most lock mechanisms are made of brass):
http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/...
And how do you know it was latched tight? From the 0.5 sec video clip you saw? From the tactile sense I'm sure you felt? Ok.
And with the lighting, yes, I know it's bare rafters. I was in there. And people can't see IR light. So, IR light couldn't produce the shadows he saw. I think it more likely light from his flashlight reflecting in odd ways caused the shadow coming right at him, as would any self-respecting scientific researcher. And if he had no flashlight, then how can you see a shadow in pitch black?
I wish I had a paid subscription to Buffalo News' archive section. When the owners took over the building, it was reported that there were 7 un-claimed urns. Not 30. And only one was spilled over. But, since I have no references here handy, I'll leave that claim un-disputed.
And, not saying the TAPS team aren't nice guys. I'm sure they are. But, they are plumbers by trade, and as I see it, don't understand common physics and electrical principles.
EMF meter going crazy? How crazy? On what axis (Did you know EMF fields are 3 dimensional)? What is the Sum measurement of the field? Why can't that be attributed to the powerlines running down the street, under the building, in the walls? 480VAC power lines can cause some real interesting field measurements at quite the distance btw...
And $30 dollars for serious research teams? Why don't they ask a research team from UB to come out there? Or from the Skeptical Inquirer? They'd pay I'm sure. But, no; just people who are willing to fall into pre-suggestion, faulty reasoning, and a number of other research fallacies.
But let me guess, you're one of those people that think orbs aren't dust, huh? Or the mist in an OPEN FIELD aren't dust clouds caught on camera?

Medina Area Paranormal wrote:

<quoted text>
Now time for my personal debunking!
1) As tech specialist of my group, I've done extensive research on this, and have never come across proof of this happening.

... clipped for length ...

People have gone there to investigate long before TAPS ever went there, and have gotten very solid evidence. I've gotten a lot myself too.
And they charge $30 a person so that only serious groups come, not just people like you who are only there to infringe on people's beliefs in the paranormal, say that the owners are liars, and just mess around, and endanger the artifacts that are displayed there.

To Mr. Skeptic,
Your explainations to the activity at the Museum, is at least entertaining if not way out of the ball park.
Myself along with other teams have been investigating for the past year there. These are done under controlled conditions with all members accounted for. As far as these "Stray transmissions you conjured up, a good number of these were done on analog recorders that are not prone to what you described. Also most of the evps were direct answers to direct questions. As far as the door opening, it was not the only one in the building this had happened to. I could go on and on about the activity in the building, but it wont sway your opinion as you sound very closed minded.
And if you think I am some kind of kook, I'm a retired Fderal Police Officer, Combat Veteran and have worked for the United States Air force.
If you want to be skeptical fine, but use your talents on something that you are experienced in, and not try to trash something you never experienced yoursef. My advice to you is do your homework.

Analog recorders aren't prone to receiving radio transmissions? You must be insane! They are the most suspect.

And you had controlled results? Have you contacted JREF with it? All your recorders were located in Faraday cages during recording?

And answers in response to questions... Hm. Good sir, are you familiar with auditory pareidolia? Please see: http://books.google.com/books... for an explanation as to why you received "answers" to your questions.

So you weren't the only one in the building? And you can prove without a doubt that the door opened and then closed? Really? Again, have you told JREF about your "evidence"? There's a million dollars on the line for you then.

As for being close minded, no sir. I have been a researcher for over a decade. 99% of all "paranormal" events have an explanation. The other 1% have none. But, yes I have been to Iron Island Museum, and could not find anything explainable. Perhaps you sir are close-minded, refusing to accept rational causes of "paranormal" events.

Been There wrote:

To Mr. Skeptic,
Your explainations to the activity at the Museum, is at least entertaining if not way out of the ball park.
Myself along with other teams have been investigating for the past year there. These are done under controlled conditions with all members accounted for. As far as these "Stray transmissions you conjured up, a good number of these were done on analog recorders that are not prone to what you described. Also most of the evps were direct answers to direct questions. As far as the door opening, it was not the only one in the building this had happened to. I could go on and on about the activity in the building, but it wont sway your opinion as you sound very closed minded.
And if you think I am some kind of kook, I'm a retired Fderal Police Officer, Combat Veteran and have worked for the United States Air force.
If you want to be skeptical fine, but use your talents on something that you are experienced in, and not try to trash something you never experienced yoursef. My advice to you is do your homework.

Sorry, couldn't find anything UNEXPLAINABLE. Mistyped my last post.

Mr Skeptic,
Seems like you get all your information from google, and you do impress me with your wording, but if you have been researching for as long as you say, you should know that although on average 80% of claims can be debunked, there is the 20% that there is no rational explaination for or it is so "in your face" that no explaination is needed.
As far as your explaination of these so caled stray recordings from the police station is laughable as I am very familiar with Police calls , and believe me these do not say "we have a code !!! at the mini mart" and we don't get Rush Limbaugh or sandy beach on our recorders. Unless you are psychic, you have no idea what we pick up for evp's.
You say you have been to Iron Island. One visit during the day, compared to the year we investigated there is no comparison.
I do respect your opinion, but I aboslutly disagree with it, and please do not critiscize other peoples hard work on a supposition.

I think that it is the ghost of Buffalo past saying "give it up", let the station RIP, and do something with the neighborhood blight. Or maybe it was trying to tell Russel he should have never restored it.

Hm... So where do you get your figure of 20%? I get by 99% figure from a number of researchers, mostly Joe Nickell.

And did I say I was there during the day? No.

As for the radio signals, you don't know what they could be saying on the air. And for the auditory pareidolia, it could be nothing at all being characterized as "answers". Did you even read the book link I gave you? I'm sure you didn't.

Basically, it's the same principle used in Rorschach tests all the time. And how people see things in clouds, pancakes, waffles, etc.

So, I don't know what you get in your EVP's huh? Want to put that to scientific scrutiny? Do a double blind study on them, you may be suprised. Easy to do:

1) Select 10 "EVPs"
2) Select 10, 5-7 second clips of noise.
3) Place all 20 on a website.
4) Ask people to post what they hear, without anyone seeing the answers beforehand.
5) See how many answers you get.

Post back the results, and then we'll see.

And you investigated for a whole year? You must have some real data there! Is it all logged? And was everything taken in a controlled situation? If so, is it duplicatable? Why not post your research findings publicly for all to see, and forward them to the physics, psychology, and electrical engineering schools at UB? They'd be more than happy to take a look and let you know what they think.

And no, not all of my information and data comes from google, although much does. Much of it comes from research papers from scientist, engineers, and researchers too. Maybe you should use some of the same sources I do...

Been There wrote:

Mr Skeptic,
Seems like you get all your information from google, and you do impress me with your wording, but if you have been researching for as long as you say, you should know that although on average 80% of claims can be debunked, there is the 20% that there is no rational explaination for or it is so "in your face" that no explaination is needed.
As far as your explaination of these so caled stray recordings from the police station is laughable as I am very familiar with Police calls , and believe me these do not say "we have a code !!! at the mini mart" and we don't get Rush Limbaugh or sandy beach on our recorders. Unless you are psychic, you have no idea what we pick up for evp's.
You say you have been to Iron Island. One visit during the day, compared to the year we investigated there is no comparison.
I do respect your opinion, but I aboslutly disagree with it, and please do not critiscize other peoples hard work on a supposition.