Pat Robertson Concludes Sikh Temple Shooting Because 'Atheists Hate God'

No it's more along old testament lines where the women are more like property and slaves rather than equals. Alimony comes from recent secular societies.

Eagle12 wrote:

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Alimony x 72 ???

TheBlackSheep wrote:

Fred Phelps vs. Pat Robertson, which on is the dumbest MF'er in America?

That's easy. Phelps, because Robertson's personal fortune could bankroll a small city for a year.

TheBlackSheep wrote:

As far as how many christians there will be; I will sit back and watch for as long as I can, I doubt that I will make it to 2050.

Can you make it to about 2040? That's when the Christians would be expected to hit minority status in America if you extrapolate the ARIS data, sooner if the pace accelerates as is expected. The more irreligious America becomes, the less stigma there will be to joining us, and the easier it will be. The rate should accelerate until the number of Christians is depleted sufficiently that it is forced to slow. But that shouldn't happen until the irreligious are well over 50% of the country.

But we won't see much even then. At that point, further time will be needed to replace Christian elected officials with openly atheist ones. That's could be twenty or thirty more years.

But then, the superstitious graffiti can be expected start falling off of the currency, out of the Pledge and oaths, out of the government buildings and monuments, and out of the law books.

And the churches will be ordered to pay their fair share of taxes, to the tune of about 71 billion a year now. From http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php... :

"The home in the photo (above) is the $1.75 million mansion of the Reverend Randy White, the former head pastor of Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Florida ... here is what should bother you about these expensive homes: You are helping to pay for them! You pay for them indirectly, the same way local, state, and federal governments in the United States subsidize religion—to the tune of about $71 billion every year."

Look at who is getting these tax breaks:

"the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS or Mormon Church), which regularly trumpets its charitable donations, gave about $1 billion to charitable causes between 1985 and 2008. That may seem like a lot until you divide it by the twenty-three-year time span and realize this church is donating only about 0.7 percent of its annual income.

"Wal-Mart, for instance, gives about $1.75 billion in food aid to charities each year, or twenty-eight times all of the money allotted for charity by the United Methodist Church and almost double what the LDS Church has given in the last twenty-five years.

"One calculation of the resources expended by 271 U.S. congregations found that, on average,“operating expenses” totaled 71 percent of all the expenditures of religions, much of that going to pay ministers’ salaries."

It aint necessarily so wrote:

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...
And the churches will be ordered to pay their fair share of taxes, to the tune of about 71 billion a year now. From http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php... :
"The home in the photo (above) is the $1.75 million mansion of the Reverend Randy White, the former head pastor of Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Florida ... here is what should bother you about these expensive homes: You are helping to pay for them! You pay for them indirectly, the same way local, state, and federal governments in the United States subsidize religion—to the tune of about $71 billion every year."
Look at who is getting these tax breaks:
"the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS or Mormon Church), which regularly trumpets its charitable donations, gave about $1 billion to charitable causes between 1985 and 2008. That may seem like a lot until you divide it by the twenty-three-year time span and realize this church is donating only about 0.7 percent of its annual income.
"Wal-Mart, for instance, gives about $1.75 billion in food aid to charities each year, or twenty-eight times all of the money allotted for charity by the United Methodist Church and almost double what the LDS Church has given in the last twenty-five years.
"One calculation of the resources expended by 271 U.S. congregations found that, on average,“operating expenses” totaled 71 percent of all the expenditures of religions, much of that going to pay ministers’ salaries."

That was such an interesting and well researched article that I went ahead and added it to our News feed for possible further discussion--

" http://www.topix.com/religion/atheism/2012/08... ;

Sikh wrote:

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You visited East Malaysia on the Borneo Island, that part of the land was annexed by Malaysian federation with the back up of U.K Royal Army. in Kuala Lumpur. Large areas of their rainforest had been plundered for timber and natural resources.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, we were on Borneo, and visited East Malaysia and Brunei.

Sikh wrote:

Today the natives of those land who are largely Christian face discrmination from central govt.

Christians facing discrimination? That's a twist. Here, they mostly dish it out, especially to gays and atheists. From David Niose at http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighb... here's a bit about Christan discrimination against atheists in America:

"Seculars are an invisible minority in America, so much so that the government and media rarely think about them or consider their interests when discussing policy.

"About one-quarter of the House of Representatives belongs to the Congressional Prayer Caucus, an entity that is ardently discriminatory toward secular individuals, constantly proposing ways to exalt religion - usually a thinly disguised Christianity - in public life. CPC members have proposed declaring a "Year of the Bible," for example, and they have proposed - in the midst of tight budgets - erecting "In God We Trust" signs in all public buildings, including classrooms.

"Little thought is given to what the taxpaying atheist or agnostic family might think of sending their child to school each day to face such overt religiosity.

"It is no secret that many fundamentalists feel that church-state separation is a myth, and if this view ever prevails it will be America's seculars who will be most under threat.

"And even beyond church-state separation, we see governmental privileging of religion in many areas, from "conscience clause" exemptions for health care providers to the rewriting of history and science text books.

"Many fundamentalists see public education as an evil that must be dismantled, so it's clear that the rights of seculars, as well as other rational Americans, are under attack.

"We could go further and look at religious favoritism in the military, exclusion of atheists from the Boy Scouts, and the general tendency to see believers as more patriotic. Unfair prejudice against nonbelievers is far too common."

I could get no clear picture of approximstely how many Atheists are in America. Plenty over our seas though. Atheism grows as the End draws near is what I say to this. As in the days of Noah were...

There are Believers, followers of Messiah, around the Globe. THe Hebrew Lord will have His remnant. Christianity grows in Israel against the odds. God will have his Chosen.

NightSerf wrote:

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Growth rates of demographic groups are not all that complicated mathematically, but they can be counter-intuitive because the rate of growth can be quite different when expressed as percentages of the world's population as opposed to percentages of the group's current size. The tables for absolute growth in the Wikipedia article on Christian population growth shows this pretty well. WP has made the tables sortable by column, making the analysis very easy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_popula...
....

In 2010, there were 2.30 billion Christians in the world, an increase of 150 million from two billion in 2005. The increase in the Christian population is growing at a slightly higher rate than the world population – 1.3 percent per year, when the total world population increased with 1.2 percent. The Christian population in Asia and Africa had the highest growth with 2.6 percent and 2.4 percent, respectively, but the Christian population is declining in Europe. Although the number of Muslims and Hindus – 1.6 billion Muslims and 870 million Hindus – are less than Christians, the Muslim population has grown at a rate of 1.9 percent per year and the Hindu population has grown at a rate of 1.5 percent per year, however charismatic Christianity and independent churches are growing at the fastest, at 2.4 percent per year[1].


The weighted average fertility rate for Muslim nations decreased in the same period from 5.17 to 3.23, a fall of 1.94 children per women or 38%. The gap in fertility between the Christian- and Muslim-dominated nations fell from 67% in 1990 to 17% in 2010. If the trend continues, the Muslim and Christian fertility rates will converge in around 2015.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_popula...

Kimberling wrote:

I can't take anything out of the bible: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life(Revelation 22:19 KJV)

I believe that we are to follow what is in the new testament. I don't remember anything about atheist, children, etc. being in there.

You aren't aware of the hatred your bible spews at atheists? Let me enlighten you to what your church teaches Christians about atheists:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8 "

Here, Jesus tells us that unbelievers are abominable, all liars, and the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. O praise him! O holy! O so holy! Isn't that beautiful?

I think I'm entitled to discuss your church is similar terms, don't you?

It aint necessarily so wrote:

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Wow. That's even less likely than a 747 assembling itself in a junkyard during a tornado.
What do you suppose the odds of a creator god randomly assembling itself from non god matter is? I'm going to estimate conservatively that it is the antilog of that number that you just cited above raised to the power of itself - factorial - cubed. Probably higher.
Occam's razor runs screaming with its hair on fire that if you must choose to believe that something always existed or bootstrapped itself into existence, that you MUST choose the singularity over the god. The singularity may yet generate a god, maybe our descendents. But a god coming first to create a singularity? Madness!

So your argument is, yes, it was totally impossible for life to begin randomly from non living matter but your idea isn't any better,it is worse. But then you seem confused because we don't believe our God was created, we believe He is timeless. Science says time began with the Big Bang So there was no 'before' for God to be created in. As Jesus Christ said, "Amen, Amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM"' Strange thing to say for a person supposedly restricted by time, don't you think?

-Skeptic- wrote:

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I hope spreading your religious propoganda makes you feel more confident that you cult of lies isn't shrinking every day as people become smarter and question ridiculous fantasies that people submit themselves to in life.

According to the Pew Forum survey, one half of adults raised in unaffiliated households in America(7%)turn to God/religion as adults. They state only Jehovah Witnesses have a higher defection rate . Imagine that.

Kimberling wrote:

I realise you say there is something in the bible that says atheist are fools. If you're an atheist, then it's just a book and it's sticks and stones.

That's for us to decide. Historically, it has been the stake, the iron maiden and the rack.

Today, we are simply called the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. Do you think that that is just sticks and stones? Let me share with you what a former president said about atheists. A president ferkrissakes :

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush

That was my country, too. I served in its armed services. But this Christian said I shouldn't be considered a citizen or a patriot, and I never heard a Christian disagree with him. In fact, they parrot him like they do your disgusting bible that equates us with murderers and whoremongers, all fit for taste of Jesus' love in the lake of fire. Very nice.

Sticks and stones, huh? Here's what this program of scapegoating and disinformation by the Christians has resulted in

From "Bigotry Worst Against Atheists - THE ULTIMATE OUTSIDERS? NEW REPORT CASTS ATHEISTS AS "OTHERS" BEYOND MORALITY AND COMMUNITY IN AMERICA" at http://atheists.org/content/bigotry-worst-aga... :

March 25, 2006

"A new study ... has found that Americans perceive Atheists as the group least likely to embrace common values and a shared vision of society.

"The research is part of the American Mosaic Project which monitors attitudes of the population in respect to minority groups. Researchers concluded: "Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry."

"Disturbingly, Atheists are "seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public," despite being only 3% of the U.S. population. Edgell said that Atheists "play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past" in that we provide "a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society."

Thanks. I'm sure you'll understand why I consider your church intolerable. You don't have the right to do that to anybody. It makes you the enemy of atheists, and justifies our contempt for your church, and our speaking out against it as I am doing right here. The Internet is great for that.

Hedonist wrote:

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That was such an interesting and well researched article that I went ahead and added it to our News feed for possible further discussion--
" http://www.topix.com/religion/atheism/2012/08... ;

Great idea. I never think of that. In fact, I have never started a thread.

Yeah, that was an eye opener, wasn't it? Seventy-one billion dollars is about $375 per tax payer every year that secularists have to pay so that churches can have, say, free fire service.

Without that deduction for the churches, the church would have to pay that amount themselves, and you would get a refund for that amount - every year for each taxpayer in the household.

We are subsidizing the people that demonize us. We pay for the fire service that keeps their churches from burning.

That should be the first order of business when the irreligious gain majority status.

It aint necessarily so wrote:

What do you suppose the odds of a creator god randomly assembling itself from non god matter is? I'm going to estimate conservatively that it is the antilog of that number that you just cited above raised to the power of itself - factorial - cubed. Probably higher.

Occam's razor runs screaming with its hair on fire that if you must choose to believe that something always existed or bootstrapped itself into existence, that you MUST choose the singularity over the god. The singularity may yet generate a god, maybe our descendents. But a god coming first to create a singularity? Madness!

downhill246 wrote:

So your argument is, yes, it was totally impossible for life to begin randomly from non living matter

Is that what you got our of that? That's the opposite of what I believe.

downhill246 wrote:

you seem confused because we don't believe our God was created, we believe He is timeless.

That's convenient. And ridiculous. How could your god have a thought outside of time? How could he act or create outside of time? He couldn't.

And if he could, then not only would he not be omniscient or perfect - omniscient gods can't have new ideas, and perfect gods don't need to create anything since everything is already perfect - the beginning of our universe would not be the beginning of time, just the beginning of time in this world.

downhill246 wrote:

Science says time began with the Big Bang So there was no 'before' for God to be created in.

Science also says that life evolved without the help of a god. It's findings confirm that the Christian creation myth is - well - a myth.

Do you trust science, or just cherry pick the parts you like?

downhill246 wrote:

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In 2010, there were 2.30 billion Christians in the world, an increase of 150 million from two billion in 2005. The increase in the Christian population is growing at a slightly higher rate than the world population – 1.3 percent per year, when the total world population increased with 1.2 percent. The Christian population in Asia and Africa had the highest growth with 2.6 percent and 2.4 percent, respectively, but the Christian population is declining in Europe. Although the number of Muslims and Hindus – 1.6 billion Muslims and 870 million Hindus – are less than Christians, the Muslim population has grown at a rate of 1.9 percent per year and the Hindu population has grown at a rate of 1.5 percent per year, however charismatic Christianity and independent churches are growing at the fastest, at 2.4 percent per year[1].
The weighted average fertility rate for Muslim nations decreased in the same period from 5.17 to 3.23, a fall of 1.94 children per women or 38%. The gap in fertility between the Christian- and Muslim-dominated nations fell from 67% in 1990 to 17% in 2010. If the trend continues, the Muslim and Christian fertility rates will converge in around 2015.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_popula...

To some extent, the reduction in the fertility rate for Islamic nations may be balanced by increased rates of survival to adulthood. Ultimately, increases of adult believers is what sustains and augments the population statistics of the various religions and sects.

downhill246 wrote:

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According to the Pew Forum survey, one half of adults raised in unaffiliated households in America(7%)turn to God/religion as adults. They state only Jehovah Witnesses have a higher defection rate . Imagine that.

"Unaffiliated" isn't a religion or sect, but a broad category that can include deeply religious households that worship only in the home or with friends. As such, the concept of a "defection rate: is ludicrous--there's no well defined set of beliefs to defect from. The "nones" category shares the same lack of definitiveness to a lesser extent in that it includes believers for whom religion is unimportant. But the populations of both categories are increasing both numerically and proportionately because gains far outweigh losses.

This shooter came up as a Christian. This is Christian (German) terrorism. Maybe we should be putting undercover agents in Lutheran and Catholic houses of worship just like they do with other terrorists.

downhill246 wrote:

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According to the Pew Forum survey, one half of adults raised in unaffiliated households in America(7%)turn to God/religion as adults. They state only Jehovah Witnesses have a higher defection rate . Imagine that.

Big deal, I was raised in a catholic household & I became an atheist the second I moved out of the house. That was 23 years ago & I'm still an atheist.

downhill246 wrote:

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So your argument is, yes, it was totally impossible for life to begin randomly from non living matter but your idea isn't any better,it is worse. But then you seem confused because we don't believe our God was created, we believe He is timeless. Science says time began with the Big Bang So there was no 'before' for God to be created in. As Jesus Christ said, "Amen, Amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM"' Strange thing to say for a person supposedly restricted by time, don't you think?

What if we find signs of life on Mars? There is a very good chance that we will. What will you say then?

"Well, god never said that we were the only creation."

So, what did god do? Start a little microbiology lab on Mars and then when he got it right, he moved the lab to Earth?

It aint necessarily so wrote:

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That's convenient. And ridiculous. How could your god have a thought outside of time? How could he act or create outside of time? He couldn't.
And if he could, then not only would he not be omniscient or perfect - omniscient gods can't have new ideas, and perfect gods don't need to create anything since everything is already perfect - the beginning of our universe would not be the beginning of time, just the beginning of time in this world.
<quoted text>
Science also says that life evolved without the help of a god. It's findings confirm that the Christian creation myth is - well - a myth.
Do you trust science, or just cherry pick the parts you like?

Your logic is illogical biut you knew that. If He is who we claim He is, all that is easy for Him.

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago."
Stephen Hawking, The Beginning of Time.

Do you trust science, or just cherry pick the parts you like?