Tulsa Could Be Impacted By Auto Industry

Don't forget the former Ford Glass Plant, now owned by Zeledyne. It has already shut down one of its 2 furnaces because of the slowdown, and if Ford went under there would be over 500 jobs gone from the plant, not to mention the effect on the many local suppliers that support the plant. That will cause a few sleepless nights, let me tell you.

So you are telling me that if Chrysler goes into bankruptcy, like it did about 15-20 yrs ago, it would automatically cause a recession? I have to think that this is just fear mongering to an extent. Sure jobs would be lost, but more jobs would open up somewhere else. The government is only concerned because their tax base will be hurt, not true concern for any paticular citizen and/or citzens in general. They don't care as long as they get thier share of your money. You really don't know the outcome at Zeledyne, because Ford would file bankruptcy for realignment, not fold all together. What that would mean would be all contracts would be nulled, and they would start from scratch. That could mean that Zeledyne gets a better contract in the long run and increases job opportunities here in Oklahoma, since we have right to work and union shops are not a given. The northern states(ie Michigan) would be hit hard, but the southern states like Oklahoma, Mississippi, Alabama and the like may actually see an increase in job opportunities. I tend to lean against any federal loan or support for a profit business. The government's job does not include producing jobs contrary to what a lot of people think. It is the economy's job to do that, and the economy has it ups and downs, period.

I agree with you HospRx. Lets also consider that they have bailed out airlines, banking, and now possibly automakers. Where does it end? And don't forget that after they bailed out the banking people that the one group sent exec types on vacation to the very exclusive club in California, sounds like they are still wasting money, only this time it was our money from the bailout.

No chapter 11 bankruptcy will be available for any of the three, as they will not be able to get Debtor In Possession financing absent a government guarantee. They will all be liquidated. We did bail Chrysler out, so that is not at all comparable. I'm not sure we should bai them out either, but it will be very painful to lose them. Plus it will join big steel in the catagory of heavy industries that no longer exist in the US. I wonder if we could fight WW II again with no steel, no energy, and no automotive capacity.

I would hate to see them shut down but there would have to be some cuts made starting from the top. One question I have, is your job connected to the auto industry?? Do you own any stock of any kind? It will go to nothing if they close. I say help them but put restrictions on them, not like the polititions did the housing market. They forced the lenders to make sorry deals while they filled their pockets. Maybe congress has a big stake in the foreign made cars and would like to see the US makers fail. The got a heck of a lot of money for this last election from someplace. Wonder where???

I say Bull Butter,(Roy D Mercer saying)

Its all fear mongering, plain and simple. The big 3 CEO's say it will cause a depression, my friends, it causes me depression thinking that the US Congress would bail these companies out.

If you own a car and you are behind the proverbial 8 ball do you expect the car company to give you more time or give you a break?? Pullllleeaasseee!

You yanks really need to write to your congressmen and tell them NO. Its much like Darwinism at its best here. If they fall they fall, but make no mistake about it, there will be someone there to take their place.(Honda, Toyota, hells bells maybe even Peugot from France will step in with BMW)

If you yanks are really clever just get rid of the whole lot of 'em and start from scratch.

Regards from someone from down under.

Painful? Of course it will be! Start with eliminating models like Hummer, all the Pontiacs, Saturn, some Buicks and Cadillacs, Taurus, Navigator, Lincoln MKZ, and maybe all the Chryslers except for Jeep.
Bust the UAW completely. Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, etc. that manufacture cars here in the USA do not use UAW labor and are flourishing in comparison.
Restructure the management of all three companies.
Allow parts suppliers to build their parts inside the auto plants as they do in other countries.....saves transportation costs.

Sure there will be fewer jobs for the autoworkers in their fields. They'll just have to retrain like so many of the rest of us had to do when the oil patch dried up in the 80's.

An Aussie wrote:

I say Bull Butter,(Roy D Mercer saying)

If you yanks are really clever just get rid of the whole lot of 'em and start from scratch.
Regards from someone from down under.

Don't forget Aussie, Ford and GM have factories and dealerships in Australia and Europe that would be shuttered if they go under. Car prices will also go through the roof (supply and demand) because the remaining auto manufacturers won't be able to make up the difference overnight.

People seem to forget that Ford and GM have made huge changes over the past couple years to position themselves for profitability. The housing bust and the economic downturn were not their doing, but they are what has placed them in jeopardy. I say give them bridge loans with restrictions to get them through until the economy picks up.

BTW, its not just the Detroit 3 having problems. Honda is pulling out of Formula 1 racing next year because of the economy. Seems they can no longer afford the $294 million to race in F1.

Am I wrong to think that a few dealerships closing wouldn't be such a bad thing? Other than the job loss for some, this city has an gross overpopulation of car dealerships.

Before any kind of a bailout is considered the unions should be banned and all labor contracts thrown out. Why would a corporation agree to pay their workers after they have been layed off? The auto makers thats who. Why lay them off and let them sit on their behinds and still pay them. Keep them at the plant and send them out on helping less fortunate people. Oh thats right, cant do that cause thats not in their contract. Dump the unions and that would take a lot of the expense out.

So far nobody has addressed the real problem of the Big Three auto makers: the UAW. The unions in this country force artificially high wages, bloated benefit packages, and cradle-to-grave security for their members. If the Big Three didn't have to kowtow to the unions, they could turn a profit in a short time. The unions were necessary at a time in our nation's history when there were no laws in place to protect workers. That time has long since passed. Unions are dinosaurs. Let's make them illegal. Let those union workers deal with the realities of the free market system like the rest of us have to.

The big three made deals with the devil during good times by giving the UAW what they demanded instead of giving them what they deserved. The UAW couldn't be satisfied with fiar pay and benefits. You can't give people $30 per hour and rediculously good benefits for life to bolt on bumpers and remain competative in a market where there are so many players who know how to do it better.

Let them fail, restructure, and come back without being hamstrung by their debt-load to a spoiled-rotten UAW. Hire execs from the successfuly Japanese companies to run them and watch them flourish.

I had rather see the auto industry helped that the insurance co. Personally, I would love to see state Farm suffer big time. Namely a Mr. Cook-s. A black racisist.

oh wow, now the racist people come into play.

Dont bail them out. They dont want to make DEPENDABLE fuel efficient vehicles. Let Honda or Toyota who treats their employees far better than the domestic auto companies buy them out. These guys piss me off because in the first meeting before congress they flew in on their privet jets pleading for a bailout. Then after being rebuked by congress now they are going to work fro 1.00 a year and sell their jets. BS! These guys had it coming. IF they do bail them out fire all the CEO's with no compensation and start fresh. We always lay off the hard workers who are struggling while the CEOS who drove the company under live high off the hog. In Japan they fire the CEO'S first and then work down.

I think we should REPO the plants, but then again who would want them.

In my opinion, the auto union members need to get together and decide to lower their pay which could then in turn insure that they stay in business and these thousands of workers will still have jobs. Yes, they may have to cut their personal spending but at least they would have jobs.
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As for a bailout, where does it stop? If I make poor financial planning choices, no one is there to bail me out!

jetan wrote:

No chapter 11 bankruptcy will be available for any of the three, as they will not be able to get Debtor In Possession financing absent a government guarantee. They will all be liquidated. We did bail Chrysler out, so that is not at all comparable. I'm not sure we should bai them out either, but it will be very painful to lose them. Plus it will join big steel in the catagory of heavy industries that no longer exist in the US. I wonder if we could fight WW II again with no steel, no energy, and no automotive capacity.

We did not bail out Chrysler at that time, I believe they did file bankruptcy and got a federal loan, which they paid back in less than 2 yrs. They still filed bankruptcy. As for the steel industry, do you really think that cars that use a minimal amount of steel compared to when cars were first built will bankrupt the steel industry, when they still have Honda, Toyota, and other uses for their product. Also have to ask why is it BIG steel, why not just the steel industry, why does everything have to be BIG steel, BIG oil, BIG automobiles, do we have a giant society that lives over us normal sized people?

If they shut down.....How long until parts for existing vehicles run out? Not being able to get a simple replacement part can take a vehicle out of service. That in and of itself would be very bad for owner and the economy.

jdbl wrote:

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Don't forget Aussie, Ford and GM have factories and dealerships in Australia and Europe that would be shuttered if they go under. Car prices will also go through the roof (supply and demand) because the remaining auto manufacturers won't be able to make up the difference overnight.
.

Well the downturn in vehicles here in Australia has already happened about 2 year ago. Some plants have shut down the the workers have gone either into retirment or working for the mines making a more money then they were at GM or Ford.

Toyota and Honda will have 3 plants going making hybrid cars here thanks to the government here giving them loans of up to $10 billion. Strings attahced are that they cannot close shop, they must make eco-friendly cars, they hire Australian workers, not guest workers and that if any plant closes or layoffs occur then Toyota or Honda will give training to the employees for other jobs and pay their unemployment for up to two years.
There are tax breaks for Honda and Toyota for the five years they operate here in Australia.

So, I say let GM, Ford and the other one fight it out.

Thanks for your reply.