Tulsa, OK

Forum Held On Hate Crimes Law

Robert Stotler and his partner were shocked to find out anti-gay graffiti painted on their home is considered just that: graffiti.

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Jan Mansfield Joined: Jun 19, 2008 Comments: 132 Oklahoma City, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #1 Aug 20, 2008 Please protect these people, most of them just hang to them self's and most all the time they are very clean people, why would any one do this I don't know, I bet their house is one of the cleanest in the neighberhood. I just do not know what this world is coming too.
obvious Tulsa, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #2 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 3 3 2 Hate crime legislation is stupid, just like any idiot who commits a crime is stupid. Someone please tell me how when someone keys a Mercedes for no other reason than the fact that is a nice car and they envy the personâ€™s wealth it would not be a hate crime against rich people. How is that different than burning someones car due to their sexual preference. Both are wrong, but to say one is worse than the other is crazy.
obvious Tulsa, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #3 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 For the record, I am appalled that someone would do something to someone because the don’t like something about them be it their wealth or personal choices, it is no one’s business. I just find hate crime legislation unfair.
Oklahoma River Kuwait	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #4 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 What was done to those people is a "crime." There is a law against doing to anyone's property what was done to theirs. I don't like this phrase "hate crime." Since when do we need to add adjectives to the word crime. The word crime stands by itself and doesn't need an adjective. Lawyers in the court room supply the adjectives, insidious, hidious, hate, and the jury decides the degree to which those adjectives apply. You can not make laws because certain people think that the crime commited against them is of a greater nature than the same crime committed against other people and that they deserve special treatment.
Benderover Joined: Aug 16, 2008 Comments: 96 Broken Arrow, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #5 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 3 2 2 They already have laws that cover anything hate related. Take vandalism in this case. Why does it need a "hate" designation? It's already a crime recognized on the books. This is nothing but human rights activist propoganda and evertime they get they get their way the law abiding lose a freedom. Catch the crooks and prosecute with what's already there.
Molly B Skiatook, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #6 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 2 2 1 Aren't all crimes "hate crimes"? If you hurt or harm someone or their property just because you don't like what they are or what they do, or simply because they are there when a "random" crime is committed, they are all because of hate to some degree. There are stupid people all over who committ crimes against others, just because. It is ALL hate related. You hate their skin color, their religon, they way they are dressed, what they drive etc. Those people who committ these crimes are full of hate and evil. If they were not filled with hate and evil we would not have any crimes against anyone. To "hate" someone because they are different is just an excuse to act out and assult and terrorize someone else. JMO
VictimAdvocate “Can't you see I'm busy here!” Joined: Jul 23, 2008 Comments: 478 Okie ISP: Vinita, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #7 Aug 20, 2008 i know i heard someone on the new last night say this is just a crime but why can't it be a hate crime? why is there hate crimes if not for all minorities to share in. why can it only be for race and religion why not for sexual orientation too? what is the difference??? they are all just crimes to me but why not add this one?? no one should have to put up with this.
Benderover Joined: Aug 16, 2008 Comments: 96 Broken Arrow, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #8 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 2 2 2 Because the hate aspect is already considered, whether defined or not, in the sentencing phase of the general crime. And if found guilty of said crime the door is open for a civil suit, say defamation of character or personal distress. I don't condone or make excuse for anyone commiting crimes like these, but they're already covered. No need to add to it with a wrinkle that could let someone off if "hate" can't be proven.

APitNmdNaniBones “Disappointed, Excuses excuses.” Joined: Apr 3, 2008 Comments: 4628 Earth ISP: Okay, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #9 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 1 1 Jan Mansfield wrote: Please protect these people, most of them just hang to them self's and most all the time they are very clean people, why would any one do this I don't know, I bet their house is one of the cleanest in the neighberhood. I just do not know what this world is coming too. If they where secure within themselves hanging would never be an option. People dont agree with how they live clean or not. And the people that vandalized their house they got what they wanted, the victims upset and news coverage.
Not sure Tulsa, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #11 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 2 1 1 Isn't this what the gay parades are for?
Pagan and Proud “I will not go quietly.” Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Comments: 11887 Indianapolis Indiana ISP: Indianapolis, IN	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #12 Aug 20, 2008 Benderover wrote: Because the hate aspect is already considered, whether defined or not, in the sentencing phase of the general crime. And if found guilty of said crime the door is open for a civil suit, say defamation of character or personal distress. I don't condone or make excuse for anyone commiting crimes like these, but they're already covered. No need to add to it with a wrinkle that could let someone off if "hate" can't be proven. Actually no, it isn't covered. If that graffiti had been a swastika on a Jewish synagogue, there would be little doubt or argument over the hate crime designation, both the motive and method of attack would be a consideration when determining the sentence for the crime. As "hate crimes" are not considered "seperate" crimes but are viewed as modifiers on the existing crime, it's very doubtful that they could be tried separately in a civil suit. The main issue is still the refusal of many to recognize and acknowledge that crimes against another human being on the basis of their sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation have the exact same motivation as any other crime based on targeting someone because of their gender, religion, creed, race, national origin, or disability. They are nothing less than a form of localized terrorism.
Ralph Saint Louis, MO	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #13 Aug 20, 2008 Are all of you really so ignorant that you do not understand the hate aspect? Imagine a burning cross on the front lawn. That is a hate crime, because it is aimed at an entire group of people, not just one house. It is telling ALL blacks that they are in danger. It is meant to intimidate and entire group, not just the one incident. Local police and judges are well-known for taking it easy on the local perp. The hate crime status just adds that "x" number of years be added, otherwise the person could get off with a minor sentence for intimidating an entire group. Really now, was that so hard to fathom?
Tom C Broken Arrow, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #14 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 Pagan and Proud wrote: <quoted text>Actually no, it isn't covered. If that graffiti had been a swastika on a Jewish synagogue, there would be little doubt or argument over the hate crime designation, both the motive and method of attack would be a consideration when determining the sentence for the crime. As "hate crimes" are not considered "seperate" crimes but are viewed as modifiers on the existing crime, it's very doubtful that they could be tried separately in a civil suit. The main issue is still the refusal of many to recognize and acknowledge that crimes against another human being on the basis of their sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation have the exact same motivation as any other crime based on targeting someone because of their gender, religion, creed, race, national origin, or disability. They are nothing less than a form of localized terrorism. But hate is not an "act". It's idealism. You can't criminalize a persons feelings toward another. You punish the action, not the idealism. If you can lump it in as a premeditation then you can go for max sentence, but you can't criminalize a persons right to an opinion. If you make "hate" a crime of action, do you not also make love a crime of action?
Molly B Skiatook, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #15 Aug 20, 2008 Ralph wrote: Are all of you really so ignorant that you do not understand the hate aspect? Imagine a burning cross on the front lawn. That is a hate crime, because it is aimed at an entire group of people, not just one house. It is telling ALL blacks that they are in danger. It is meant to intimidate and entire group, not just the one incident. Local police and judges are well-known for taking it easy on the local perp. The hate crime status just adds that "x" number of years be added, otherwise the person could get off with a minor sentence for intimidating an entire group. Really now, was that so hard to fathom? Well, excuse me Ralph I DO NOT understand HATE. Because I do not have any. Hate is hate to me, period. Sorry, if you have such a first hand knowledge of it. I was just wondering what the difference was, thank you for so nicely explaining it to us all.
Ralph Saint Louis, MO	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #16 Aug 20, 2008 Molly B wrote: <quoted text> Well, excuse me Ralph I DO NOT understand HATE. Because I do not have any. Hate is hate to me, period. Sorry, if you have such a first hand knowledge of it. I was just wondering what the difference was, thank you for so nicely explaining it to us all. Don't be obtuse. I did not say I understood HATE, and I did not ask you to. I asked if you understood the hate "aspect" of the crime. And I did not put it "nicely" precisely because I do have an intimate knowledge such a crime. The only reason for not being able to understand is because you are either ignorant or unwilling to face your own bigotry. "Nice" doesn't cut it with people who just don't care about anything beyond their own little world.
Catholic created gay “ TRUTH has become extinct” Joined: Nov 10, 2007 Comments: 812 town near Jax, Fl ISP: Toledo, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #17 Aug 20, 2008 obvious wrote: Hate crime legislation is stupid, just like any idiot who commits a crime is stupid. Someone please tell me how when someone keys a Mercedes for no other reason than the fact that is a nice car and they envy the personâ€™s wealth it would not be a hate crime against rich people. How is that different than burning someones car due to their sexual preference. Both are wrong, but to say one is worse than the other is crazy. You know what is really stupid, people who post with different names from the same location.
Catholic created gay “ TRUTH has become extinct” Joined: Nov 10, 2007 Comments: 812 town near Jax, Fl ISP: Toledo, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #18 Aug 20, 2008 I support Ben Dover. I'm behind him all the way.
devons Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Comments: 8807 Cincinnati, OH	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #19 Aug 20, 2008 Judged: 1 1 1 Tom C wrote: <quoted text> But hate is not an "act". It's idealism. You can't criminalize a persons feelings toward another. You punish the action, not the idealism. If you can lump it in as a premeditation then you can go for max sentence, but you can't criminalize a persons right to an opinion. If you make "hate" a crime of action, do you not also make love a crime of action? That would indicate you are against the entire hate crime legislation that has been in effect since 1994. I also take it that you are against the part of the Patriot Act which removes statues of limitations and calls for harsher sentences for acts of terrorism.
Molly B Skiatook, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #20 Aug 20, 2008 Ralph wrote: <quoted text> Don't be obtuse. I did not say I understood HATE, and I did not ask you to. I asked if you understood the hate "aspect" of the crime. And I did not put it "nicely" precisely because I do have an intimate knowledge such a crime. The only reason for not being able to understand is because you are either ignorant or unwilling to face your own bigotry. "Nice" doesn't cut it with people who just don't care about anything beyond their own little world. Again, thank-you Ralph
BlueLamp Joined: May 31, 2008 Comments: 7261 Beggs, OK ISP: Beggs, OK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #21 Aug 20, 2008 Tom C wrote: <quoted text> But hate is not an "act". It's idealism. You can't criminalize a persons feelings toward another. You punish the action, not the idealism. If you can lump it in as a premeditation then you can go for max sentence, but you can't criminalize a persons right to an opinion. If you make "hate" a crime of action, do you not also make love a crime of action? Yes and a hate crime doesn't involve prosecuting someone for merely hating a group of people. It punishes them for a physical attack, an action, based on the hate motive. It's no different than the fact that if someone murders a police officer, they get a harsher sentence than if they murdered a civilian. If you ever get arrested for saying that you hate a group of people just call the ACLU, they'll be glad to represent you.

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