Fugitive polygamist leader arrested

I'm glad he was caught with a "whimper" not a "bang" as was feared for the last several months. I don't know what his followers will do now, but the rest of us should celebrate the capture of this fraud and those that were threatened with "eternal punishment" should breathe easier, I hope. Most people seem to miss the point that Jeffs preaches Joseph Smith's old time religion. Jeffs and Smith are cut from the same cloth, even to the point of cutting and running to avoid the law. There is a difference between a true prophet and a cult leader. Neither of these men fit the bill for prophet unless there is something spiritual about having sex with a 14-year-old girl.(Fanny Alger, ever hear of her?) They both are and always will be frauds.

I hope the inmates sodomize and beat the crap out of him. That won't even be a fraction of what he put others through.

Nothing that Warren Jeffs preaches should be attributed to Joseph Smith. Jeffs is a cult leader and lunatic. Joseph Smith was a prophet, seer, and revelator called by God.
It is important to clarify that Jeffs is not a member of the LDS church and is in no way affiliated it. There are extremists in every walk of life, who will take one principle or belief to such extremes that it no longer resembles the original precept. Ever heard of "Holy Jihad"?
Maybe with Jeffs behind bars, the poor women and girls he's been misleading and abusing will be able to see him for what he truly is and get some help.

Lorenzo wrote:

I'm glad he was caught with a "whimper" not a "bang" as was feared for the last several months. I don't know what his followers will do now, but the rest of us should celebrate the capture of this fraud and those that were threatened with "eternal punishment" should breathe easier, I hope. Most people seem to miss the point that Jeffs preaches Joseph Smith's old time religion. Jeffs and Smith are cut from the same cloth, even to the point of cutting and running to avoid the law. There is a difference between a true prophet and a cult leader. Neither of these men fit the bill for prophet unless there is something spiritual about having sex with a 14-year-old girl.(Fanny Alger, ever hear of her?) They both are and always will be frauds.

If you really are concerned with historical accuracy, you will note that Joseph Smith never actually broke the law. He was arrested and imprisoned wrongly and was never convicted of any crime. Look up Governor Lilburn Boggs of Missouri sometime if you want to research the laws of that time. He signed an "extermination order" that made it legal in the state of Missouri to hunt down and kill Mormons. And Joseph Smith was the criminal? There are always two sides to every story. I just wanted to make sure the historically accurate one is included here as well as venomous and ignorant opinions.

We should not forget that is was SMITH himself that began the polygamy practice - to the chagrin of many of his followers - and the practice was not officially denounced until well after his demise, the direct result of pressure from the US government over their tax-exempt status. Many facets of the LDS "church," however, have been proven erroneous (Native Americans from Israel – Or Israelites living in North America ????) by advocates of the religion, nonetheless. With that said I do, however, agree that the FLDS should not be tied to the mainstream LDS religion. The modern day mormon religion sets a solid example with tremendous family values and doing good unto others by accepting them for who they are, something that other religions seem to forget. I also in no way condone the horrendous persecution the mormons went through, something many others have been subjected to in the history of our great country. I would suggest that before either side of the lds fence condemns the other, they do more to educate them selves about the subjects at hand. Educate and enlighten, then talk intelligently about this fascinating subject. Read Under the Banner of Heaven for more info on the FLDS and how they in no way should be compared to our contemporary mormon friends. For an honest, thoughtful and insightful look into the LDS religion, its strong suits and its flaws, read An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer, a 4th generation mormon and lds educator. Both can be found on Amazon

These people, not just Warren Jeffs, are absolutely pathetic. Imagine having a life so void that you have to rely on a loser like Warren Jeffs to guide you through life. And these so-called "men" who he has banished without their families? I'd kill him before I let him take my family away from me...or he'd have to kill me. Man, it is embarassing to have ignorant fools like this in our country. For all of his followers...GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!! I hope he ends up in a ditch somewhere.

Thank you for writting this....I agree people need to reed the diffrence before they start compering Mormons with polygamist. I am tired of comments about the polygamist and they use the word Mormon, is not the same religion.....

Hank wrote:

We should not forget that is was SMITH himself that began the polygamy practice - to the chagrin of many of his followers - and the practice was not officially denounced until well after his demise, the direct result of pressure from the US government over their tax-exempt status. Many facets of the LDS "church," however, have been proven erroneous (Native Americans from Israel – Or Israelites living in North America ????) by advocates of the religion, nonetheless. With that said I do, however, agree that the FLDS should not be tied to the mainstream LDS religion. The modern day mormon religion sets a solid example with tremendous family values and doing good unto others by accepting them for who they are, something that other religions seem to forget. I also in no way condone the horrendous persecution the mormons went through, something many others have been subjected to in the history of our great country. I would suggest that before either side of the lds fence condemns the other, they do more to educate them selves about the subjects at hand. Educate and enlighten, then talk intelligently about this fascinating subject. Read Under the Banner of Heaven for more info on the FLDS and how they in no way should be compared to our contemporary mormon friends. For an honest, thoughtful and insightful look into the LDS religion, its strong suits and its flaws, read An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer, a 4th generation mormon and lds educator. Both can be found on Amazon

Raz wrote:

These people, not just Warren Jeffs, are absolutely pathetic. Imagine having a life so void that you have to rely on a loser like Warren Jeffs to guide you through life. And these so-called "men" who he has banished without their families? I'd kill him before I let him take my family away from me...or he'd have to kill me. Man, it is embarassing to have ignorant fools like this in our country. For all of his followers...GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!! I hope he ends up in a ditch somewhere.

WOW. I wish we could all be as good as you. Come down off your mountain.

joesph smith also bointed dozens of underaged girls
on their way to <marrying> him in his days it just wasn,t illegal in utah or against chruch rules.

It is sad that Warren does not even feel a slight bit embarrased and a fool that "he" the so called prophet was caught after he told his followers he will never be caught. He is a misleading, SADISTIC man and it is ridiculous that people will continue their charade living as if their leader is being persecuted. I hope there is some sort of seminar prep to re educate his followers and see their way to the 21st century!

I am not Mormon. I do not live in Hildale or the area surrounding. But I do know a few people who live there and are in the FDLS and do practice polygamy. They are fine people and have many good qualities. There is so much dysfunctionalism and idolatry everywhere that I think miserable people want to take their frustrations out on the FDLS.

What is the worst crime that Jeffs is to be accused of in court? Arranging marriages of girls who are 15 or 16 years old? But don't they have arranged marriages even today in India and other countries? and hasn't it been very common in the past in many cultures including European? And historically in the past hasn't it been very normal for girls in that age group to get married? and I do not believe that these girls were physically forced to marry in that they could've fled the scene as some did. They were coercec, but they could've defied that coercion by fleeing.

People love to hate.

Melinda wrote:

<quoted text>
If you really are concerned with historical accuracy,......... Governor Lilburn Boggs of Missouri sometime if you want to research the laws of that time. He signed an "extermination order" that made it legal in the state of Missouri to hunt down and kill Mormons.......... I just wanted to make sure the historically accurate one is included here

gosh Melinda, that is very interesting history. I never knew that a governor of Missouri did that. I knew that there were many in Missouri and some other states that did hate the Mormons. I also knew that a wagon train of Missourians set forth from Kansas City to travel west and along the way they told people they were going to kill a lot of mormons in Utah. The mormons heard about it and met that wagon train on the trail. They surrounded it and killed all including men women & children, about 100 people.

I think that often the people who try to teach us history and even current news try to tell us a story line where one side was the good guys and one side was the bad guys. But in reality good guys and bad guys both were on all sides, and the real history is a lot more complex than the story line they tell us.

Seeing the Christ-like love of those posting about Warren Jeffs, I can only assume that you are Bible believers. For all those that claim to believe in the Bible, perhaps you should read the first few verses of Matthew, chapter 7.

[What is the worst crime that Jeffs is to be accused of in court? Arranging marriages of girls who are 15 or 16 years old?...I do not believe that these girls were physically forced to marry in that they could've fled the scene as some did. They were coercec, but they could've defied that coercion by fleeing]....Yeah, defy your family, your lack of social opportunity, your lack of education and the social upbringing that lets you know your only purpose in life is to be some mans property and that you don't have the same rights as your brother. Throw in damnation and physical abuse for anyone uppity enough to be defiant and you have the current situation we have today where women are still property and not allowed to have complete charge over their own lives

Marey,

So you're upset that someone else is telling these young women what to do, instead of yourself?

Instead of their society telling them what to do, you want your society telling them what to do?

What evidence do you have that these young women are uneducated? Why do you wish to insult those that you claim to defend? Why do you wish to call these young women ignorant? Will your insults draw them closer to you? I wonder if their husbands insult them in the same way that you do. I certainly hope not.

Their society may have problems, but so does yours. I can give you the statistics if you want.

Out of the women that are involved in the Jeffs case, the only person, that we know for a fact, has held any of them against their will, is the judge that is trying to force a woman to testify against her husband. Her freedom has been removed by your society. Who's treating who like cattle?

You say that you wish women to have "complete charge over their own lives". Would you then deny a woman the right to enter into a polygamist relationship? Would you honor her decision? Would your society allow her to take charge of her life in a way that she see's fit?

I think you've already answered that question.

My my my, how many words you try to put in my mouth, Brent. Insular societies like the community they come from aren't exactly known for being places of scholarly pursuit. As my words stated, I want women to make free uncoerced decisions about their lives. Sure, be polygamous if you wish, but that is a decision for a self supporting adult to make, not a child who is dependent on someone else.

Perhaps you could point out where I placed words in your mouth.

Is it not your position that your way is better than their way?

Is it not your position that these young women are incapable of making decisions on their own?

Is it not your position that these young women are ignorant?

By the way, thank you for providing such conclusive evidence of these young women's ignorance.:)

I also find it interesting that only a child, that's not dependent on someone else, is capable of making an important decision. When does that happen in your society? Sometime after college?

14 is old for many societies in this world. It's been an accepted age of marriage far longer than it's not been. But hey, what's thousands of years of marriage have to do with anything. I guess we've just had thousands of years of perverts, right? I bet your great-great-grandfather was a pervert. And his father too, and his father, and his father....

I never made any indication what my 'society' is, you assumed and then claimed that I wanted to tell them what to do when I said they need to make that decision for themselves, not to be coerced while they are still children.

"Is it not your position that your way is better than their way?"
Yes, only adults should marry

"Is it not your position that these young women are incapable of making decisions on their own?"
No, if you bothered to actually read, I pointed out obstacles in their way.

"Is it not your position that these young women are ignorant?"
A fourteen or sixteen year old doesn't even have a high school diploma, so yes they are and therefore can not even provide a decent living for themselves outside the narrow confines of her communal society

"14 is old for many societies in this world. It's been an accepted age of marriage far longer than it's not been. But hey, what's thousands of years of marriage have to do with anything. I guess we've just had thousands of years of perverts, right? I bet your great-great-grandfather was a pervert. And his father too, and his father, and his father...."
You are correct, 14 and younger is common is some societies for a girl to marry. That doesn't make it right. The world is a vastly different place now. There are many paths one can take in life but not if someone is kept ignorant of the many choices out there. You sound as one who has a vested interest in keeping alive the insulting notion that girls (instead of women) should share your bed.

I assumed that your society is not the FLDS society, and more reflects that of mainstream American society. I think I was right.

I said that you view your way as being better than their way. You said, "Yes, only adults should marry." Once again, I was right.

I asked if it was not your position that these women are incapable of making decision on their own. You stated, "NO", but listed off a bunch of unsubstantiated rumor to indicate that they don't think for themselves. A bit of doublespeak, I believe.

I asked if it was your position that these young women are ignorant. You said, "yes they are". Seems clear to me. You then gave a laughable explanation that if you don't have a high school diploma, then you are somehow ignorant. My 8 year old daughter can read, and understands more, than many a high school graduate. A diploma doesn't equate to education, only to time served.

You then stated, "14 and younger is common in some societies for a girl to marry. That doesn't make it right."

What exactly makes it wrong? From their perspective, you are in the wrong. Should they throw you in jail? It seemed to be a perfectly good age for the past few thousand years. Surely God would have set a higher age limit to marriage if he deemed it necessary. What good is an arbitrary age anyway? By your standard, many a grown adult wouldn't qualify for marriage. Are you going to throw them in jail for not living to your standards?

I guess that you agreed about your great-grandfathers being perverts, right?

You also stated, "There are many paths one can take in life but not if someone is kept ignorant of the many choices out there."

Like pre-marital sex, day care to raise your children so you can serve mammon, failing public schools, lollipop parties, drugs, alcohol, abortion.... The list goes on and on.

Maybe these young women have been educated on your society. Maybe they received that education from reading the scriptures. Maybe God is their teacher. Maybe that's why you don't like what they are doing, because their choices reflect Biblical ones. Not worldly ones. We all know Christ's words in John 15:18-19.

You then stated, "You sound as one who has a vested interest in keeping alive the insulting notion that girls (instead of women) should share your bed."

LOL!!! How did you know my wife was a teenager when I married her? Of course, it was completely legal. She was deemed old enough to say 'I do', and more importantly, she got her diploma a few months after our marriage. It turns out that she felt the same way even after she was educated.:)

The mainstream society I live in has many of the superstitious underpinnings yours does. It is mankind that has made the rules and frequently used force to subdue and control, not some nonexistent god. And your kind has always been extremely hateful to those of us who won't acknowledge your god. You twist and turn anything I say to suit your own selfish ways.