[China] Having fun at Vietnam's expense

CCP have stolen China from the people

old china wrote:

In my experience, Chinese people who criticise the Chinese government just because they are largely a representation of the CCP are regarded as crazy and to be pittied rather than worth arguing with.
If an internet thread is constructive and polite then it is frequently allowed to run for a time. Criticism of China is monitored because sometimes we say something intelligent that should be and can be acted upon - not everything we say is dismissed.

Not true.

I live and work in Xian and have worked in China for a about 7 years, including Chengdu, where some of the most ardent critics say their piece. I wasn't too fussy about Chengdu - the perenerially hot cloudy weather, but Chengduren have to be among the most vocal I've met in

China.

Just yesterday, a student was taking a leak in the urinal next to me and suddenly blurted out, "I've got a book to recommend to you!" We shook it off and went back to my office. He opened a website and showed me a book review of "Out of Mao's Shadow", a critique of the Communist old guard's leadership.

Not true at all, and I don't even pretend to know what axe you could be possibly grinding with that one. Chinese people are critical of the CCP, just not in an emotional manner somewhat more akin to a typical Westerner's line of thought.

Silly.

Trevor Swistchew wrote:

<quoted text>UK has free press write a letter to the Times saying you think the UK is not free they will print your letter you WILL NOT go to jail.THAT is a FREE press.Write to Chinas paper saying the CCP are not fair in Tibet you will be arrested China has no FREE Press.

In every country, free press has its limits, especially when it relates to national security, national unity, treason, public safety, privacy, obscenity, blasphemy, pornography, and libel. Do not idealize the free press situation in UK when it is illegal in UK to publish a photo of a public figure on the way to see a doctor. It is illegal anywhere in the world to publish an instruction to build an atomic bomb, especially after 911. Every country has its hot button. China is no exception.

Trevor Swistchew wrote:

<quoted text>Why China no free press?

Probably the same reason that the western press frequently misrepresent the truth.

Two Cents wrote:

Many westerners cannot believe that China can host a successful Olympic. They also have trouble believing that China has freedom of speech.
As long as you are not plotting to assassinate the Chinese president, you can say anything you want. I have read stupid blogs that talked about the Chinese airforce shooting down an F-22 in the Fujian province. There is no censorship.

Successfull ?
It's Okay from start to the end, not so impressive . Before it starts, the world already know China with massive amount of peoples she will use that crowd to display and that was true. Besides those security guard have to wear diaper for staying in the duty, that mean no go shit. Have you heard that in the news ?

Freedom of speech ?
What a joke, I can give you an example in the Commie's country, the Red Cross bring foods and relieves to their peoples and the Commie Govt asks the Press to be in the crowd for pictures and news, shows the world's readrs understand how Commie has shown dignity and truth. At that point, obviously no one can argue with commies.

During the night time when Red Cross are left, Commie police comes back to village, asks all peoples had received those relieves to hand back to the police. Why ?

Police says "There are more poor peoples need these these relieves than you, our Govt will help you guys later", and Police took all foods/relieves away for their own shakes. If peoples complain, goto jail. The Red Cross and Press are gone for long, did not know that.

Look at China earth quake victims and understand what I meant.

I am from Vietnam Commie's country, I knew these tricks.

Dirty and sly Propagandistic impact controls on the some of lowly brainless masses, as the US and China appilication of Lucifer Effect and more like a introduction to The Milgram experiment and Stockholm Syndrome is in effect. BE AWARE!

China was always much more powerful than Vietnam, whether in the past or in the present. But that does not mean that China can easily take control of Vietnam. History has shown that China has time and time again tasted humiliation at being the Goliath taken down by David. Here's a summary:

Vietnam and the Vietnamese People fought with China for independence for 1,200 years and continue to resist Chinese imperialism even to this day! The reason is simple. Vietnamese people live by the words of Lady Trieu Thi Trinh: "I want to rail against the wind and the tide, kill the sharks in the sea, sweep the whole country to save the people from slavery, and I refuse to be abused." Following are noteworthy events in Vietnam's history in which the Vietnamese people had to deal with China's relentless aggression and demonstrated their unceasing fighting spirit.


208 BC: Trieu Da, a turncoat Chinese general, conquers a domain in the northern mountains of Vietnam. He defied the decadent Ch'in dynasty, built his capital at Canton, and declared himself emperor of Nam Viet "Land of the Southern Viet" which reached as far south as the present city of Danang.


111 BC: The Nam Viet kingdom (spreading from the Red River delta to north of Canton) is annexed by the Han and becomes the Chinese district of Giao-chi.


40 AD: Trung Sisters Rebellion. Lady Trung Trac, avenging the murder of her dissident husband by a Chinese commander, leads the first major revolt against China. She and her sister, Trung Nhi, mustered other restive nobles and their vassals, including another woman, Phung Thi Chinh, who supposedly gave birth to a baby in the middle of the battle but continued to fight with the infant strapped to her back. They vanquished the Chinese in 40 AD and, with the Trung sisters as Queens, set up an independent state which stretched from Hue into southern China.


43 AD: Chinese conquer the Trung Sisters who committed suicide - in aristocratic style - by throwing themselves into a river. The Vietnamese still venerate them at temples in Hanoi and Sontay.


248 AD: Lady Trieu Au launches a revolt wearing golden armor and riding an elephant as she leads a thousand men into battle. Gloriously defeated at the age of 23, she committed suicide rather than suffer the shame of surrender. Like the Trung sisters she is remembered by a temple and by her words of defiance: "I want to rail against the wind and the tide, kill the whales in the sea, sweep the whole country to save the people from slavery, and I refuse to be abused."


The Chinese conquerors referred to Vietnam as Annam, the "pacified south." But it was far from peaceful. Resistance against China persisted. Revolts recurred chronically, and dissident nobles gradually perceived the need to mobilize peasant support. They broadened their movements and stressed that Vietnam's customs, practices, and interests differed from those of China.

542-545 AD: Ly Bon takes action, organizes and leads a rebellion against the Chinese presence in Vietnam. The struggle was a difficult one, not only because of the advantages possessed by the Chinese in men and material but also due to a war with the Champa Kingdom in the south that broke out at the same time. All might have gone very badly, but the amount of oppression endured under the rule of China ensured that Ly Bon had massive public support in Vietnam. As many others would find out, no enemy, no matter how strong, can hold dominion over the common people of Vietnam for very long. Finally, in 544 Ly Bon succeeds in over-throwing the hated Chinese government and established the independent nation of 10,000 Springs (Van Xuan). Using the name instituted by the earlier Trieu Da Dynasty he was proclaimed Emperor Ly Bon of Nam Viet. He established his ruling city at Gia Ninh, at the bottom of Mt. Tam Dao, near present day Hanoi. Once secure in his position as Emperor, Ly Bon launched military expeditions to unite the Vietnamese people. Eventually he secured control of most of the cultural lands of Vietnam as well as the northern Champa territories. However, while Emperor Ly Bon was engaged in battle, in 545 the Liang Dynasty sent an attack force against him. While Ly Bon was fighting in the south Ch'en captured his city of Gia Ninh. The Emperor managed to evade Ch'en's forces and handed most of his authority over to the general Trieu Quang Phuc to stop the invader. However, shortly thereafter Emperor Ly Bon was assassinated by the unpredictable mountain tribes and without his leadership the nation of Van Xuan fell apart. However, Ly Bon's example inspired resistance against the Chinese for many years to come.


602 AD: Chinese rule is now a protectorate, the capital being Dai La Thanh (Hanoi)


938 AD: Ngo Quyen vanquishes the Chinese. China had deployed fresh forces in Vietnam, some arriving by sea. In 938 AD, as a large flotilla of armed Chinese junks approached the Bach Dang River - a tidal waterway near Haiphong, Ngo Quyen resorted to a clever strategem. He ordered his men to drive iron-tipped spikes into the riverbed, their points concealed below the water's surface. Then, at high tide, he engaged the Chinese, his own vessels retreating as the tide ebbed. The pursuing Chinese ships became impaled, and Ngo Quyen turned back to destroy them.


967 AD: Dinh Bo Linh ascends the throne calling his state Dai Co Viet, "The Kingdom of the Watchful Hawk." The son of an official, he had organized a peasant army commanded by urban intellectuals. His dynasty won recognition of Vietnam's independence from China in exchange for regular payments of tribute. The tributary arrangement, which was typical of Chinese relations with other states of Southeast Asia, endured for centuries. The capital moves to Hoa Lu with the Dinh and first Le dynasties.


1075-1077 AD: General Ly Thuong Kiet successfully repells continuous attacks from China.


1226: Tran dynasty comes to power.


1257: General Tran Hung Dao leads the Vietnamese armies to resist the first Mongol invasion. The Mongol armies of Kublai Khan invaded Vietnam who had anticipated their attacks and evacuated the city beforehand. Disease, shortage of supplies, the climate, and the Vietnamese strategy of harassment and scorchedearth tactics foiled their invasions.

1285: Second Mongol invasion. Kublai Khan demanded passage through the Kingdom of Dai Viet (in northern Vietnam) for his Yuan army on their invasion of the kingdom of Champa. When Dai Viet’s Emperor Tran Nhan Tong refused, the Mongol army, led by Prince Toghan, attacked Dai Viet and seized the capital Thang Long (modern day Hanoi). The Vietnamese retreated to the south after burning off most of their crops and facilities. Tran Hung Dao and other generals escorted the Royal Court, staying just ahead of the Mongol army in hot pursuit. When the Mongol army had been worn down with tropical diseases and lack of supplies, Tran Hung Dao launched a counter-offensive. Most of the battles were on the waterfronts, where the Mongols could not use their cavalry strength. Mongol commander Sogetu of the southern front was killed in the battle. In their withdrawal from Dai Viet, the Mongols were also attacked by the Hmong and Yao minorities in the northern regions.


1287: Third Mongol invasion. The third Mongol invasion, of 300,000 men and a vast fleet, was also defeated by the Vietnamese under the leadership of General Tran Hung Dao. Borrowing a tactic used by Ngo Quyen in 938 to defeat an invading Chinese fleet, the Vietnamese drove iron-tipped stakes into the bed of the Bach Dang River (located in northern Vietnam in present-day Ha Bac, Hai Hung, and Quang Ninh provinces), and then, with a small Vietnamese flotilla, lured the Mongol fleet into the river just as the tide was starting to ebb. Trapped or impaled by the iron-tipped stakes, the entire Mongol fleet of 400 craft was sunk, captured, or burned by Vietnamese fire arrows. The Mongol army retreated to China, harassed enroute by Tran Hung Dao's troops. The entire Mongol fleet was destroyed, and Omar, the Mongol fleet admiral was captured and executed. The ground force of Prince Toghan was more fortunate. They were ambushed along the road through Noi Bang, but managed to escape back to China by dividing their forces into smaller retreating groups.


Vietnam is the only nation to defeat the Mongols, who at their peak swept out of remote northern Asia on horse cavalry and conquered China, much of Southeast Asia, Russia, and on into present day Poland and Germany.


1407: Chinese occupation again. Their brief rule was the harshest in their history. Chinese forced Vietnamese peasants to mine for gold and other ores, cut rare woods, and grow spices, all to be exported to China along with elephants tusks, rhinoceros horns, pearls, and precious stones. They drastically imposed Chinese culture, confiscated Vietnamese literature, compelled schools to teach in Chinese, suppressed Vietnamese cults, and permitted only the worship of Chinese gods. They ordered Chinese dress for women and prohibited men from cutting their hair. This last rule was to facilitate the beheading of any outspoken Vietnamese male, who could easily be seized by the hair and decapitated. They even outlawed betel nut. They issued identity cards and collected heavy taxes from all. The Vietnamese undoubtedly will not let themselves be subjected to this kind of rule long.

1418: Le Loi leads Vietnamese rebellion. Proclaiming himself the Prince of Pacification, Le Loi raised the banner of revolt. He withdrew to the mountains near his home and rallied relatives, friends, villagers, and even local bandits to his cause. He taught them the guerrilla tactics that had worked for Tran Hung Dao, who had vanquished the Mongols. The Chinese became increasingly insecure as the insurrection spread. They clung to the towns, venturing out only by day, their big battalions sticking only to the roads. The Chinese adopted a method of defense by building fortified towers along main routes. Gradually, as the balance of forces tilted his way, Le Loi struck at the Chinese directly in 1426, deploying platoons of elephants against their horse cavalry. Fighting in rain and mud west of Hanoi the Vietnamese routed the Chinese. At the surrender, the Chinese recognized Vietnam's independence, and Le Loi generously furnished the Chinese with 500 junks and thousands of horses to get them home.


1428: After his victory against the Chinese armies, with the aid of Nguyen Trai, Le Loi begins the second Le dynasty. Le Loi established his capital at Hanoi. He distributed land to poor peasants, rewarded nobles with large estates, and set up agencies to build dikes, dams, irrigation systems and projects to increase agricultural production. This political structure served Vietnam for the next 400 years until the French disrupted life there in the nineteenth century.


1771: The Tay Son brothers start a rebellion causing heavy warfare in the next thirty years.


1788: China attempts to attack Vietnam once more but was defeated by the Vietnamese army led by Nguyen Hue (Quang Trung) in 1789 at Dong Da (inner Hanoi).


1802: After pushing back the Tay Son with the help of French mercenaries recruited by Jesuit Pigneau de Behaine, Nguyen Anh (the only survivor from the massacre of the Nguyens by the Tay Son brothers) changes his name to Gia Long and starts the Nguyen dynasty. The capital of the unified country is now Hue.

17/2/1979: China invades Vietnam as a retaliatory act for putting an end to the murderous China supported Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. China was repelled after a month of fighting.

__________

The method of taking over countries as was done in the past is no longer the way to go in this era. China won't be trying to take over Vietnam with the silly "invasion plan". But if China were to try, history cannot but repeat itself.

Trevor Swistchew wrote:

<quoted text>UK has free press write a letter to the Times saying you think the UK is not free they will print your letter you WILL NOT go to jail.THAT is a FREE press.Write to Chinas paper saying the CCP are not fair in Tibet you will be arrested China has no FREE Press.

You really expect me or us to believe that.

This is not the Mao Tze Tung's time anymore!
China is changing and even a democratic China will not tolerate separatism. Like I say the penalty for treason is severe even in UK. Either life imprisonment or death.

You can believe what you want to believe but we can see with our eyes and listen with our ears but certainly not through you.

Too many lies generated by your people and FREE TIBET PRESS sponsored by the CIA has harm your cause! It is a now a case of cry wolf.

Moreover my question remains: Why are Buddhist Monks who have vowed to divorce themselves from worldly affair involved in materialistic world & politics? Is there color, race, preference in Buddhism in order for you to attain enlightenment?
Do we always have to see thing in race and color?

After the Lakhsa incident, and the widespread fabrications by the western media we don't believe in any of you anymore.

Internet, Youtube has broaden our perception of Tibet. We have seen the argument. You have a lost cause. Go home and call it a day!

We the Chinese abroad has awaken!

Trevor Swistchew wrote:

<quoted text>UK has free press write a letter to the Times saying you think the UK is not free they will print your letter you WILL NOT go to jail.THAT is a FREE press.Write to Chinas paper saying the CCP are not fair in Tibet you will be arrested China has no FREE Press.

And another reply eaten...

That depends on what you write about and how you write it. You cannot, for example, incite race hatred without getting into trouble with UK law. If the Editor of a UK newspaper thinks that the letter is contrary to his editorial brief then they wont print it even if it is true. If the Government or a court tell them not to print it then it will not appear. You also cannot liable someone - claiming that the Dalai Lama was a Nazi would not be acceptable even though there are photographs of him with Nazi leaders unless his membership could be proved (no allegation there - just an example).

This will be backed with the full force of the law and may result in prison.

Jon wrote:

<quoted text>
Moreover my question remains: Why are Buddhist Monks who have vowed to divorce themselves from worldly affair involved in materialistic world & politics? Is there color, race, preference in

maybe because the CCP shits on the metaphysical worlds of the monks.

US is having fun at the expenses of the world.

US get out of Iraq and Afgh. stop enslaving the Iraqi people.

US shut all your military bases around world, pack your bags and go back to where you came from.

dissident77 wrote:

<quoted text>
maybe because the CCP shits on the metaphysical worlds of the monks.

What has CCP got to do with the question?

you asked why they are involved in worldly affairs. and i say it's because they can't live their "unworldly" affairs in peace. because of the CCP.

dissident77 wrote:

you asked why they are involved in worldly affairs. and i say it's because they can't live their "unworldly" affairs in peace. because of the CCP.

I didn't realize the CCP had the power to control the metaphysical world. If membership allowed one to have that power then tell me where to sign up! lol.

Find it interesting that no major media has picked up the story. Frequent many Chinese military forum and I have never saw that "invasion plan", or at least never caught mine or anyone's attention as no lengthy debate ever come up.

Two Cents wrote:

<quoted text>
In every country, free press has its limits, especially when it relates to national security, national unity, treason, public safety, privacy, obscenity, blasphemy, pornography, and libel. Do not idealize the free press situation in UK when it is illegal in UK to publish a photo of a public figure on the way to see a doctor. It is illegal anywhere in the world to publish an instruction to build an atomic bomb, especially after 911. Every country has its hot button. China is no exception.

Why are Tibetan jail for picture of Dalai Lama?