LETTER: Stand up for the unborn child

lifes a beach wrote:

<quoted text>
It said nothing in the bible about Mary Magdelene having an abortion...you must be reading the remix or something.

She's suffering from mental illness. It might be schizophrenia. Hope she gets help.

lifes a beach wrote:

<quoted text>
It said nothing in the bible about Mary Magdelene having an abortion...you must be reading the remix or something.

Nitwit's a sick puppy. Ignore her.

z3ncat wrote:

So, out of curiosity, while Mary here blathers on, does anyone mind me asking what their personal belief system is?

I learned recently after some redneck shot up a church in Knoxville killing two that I lean more towards the Unitarian Universalist belief system, moreso than Baptist. It's more an open-minded religion that encourages you to seek your own spiritual path whether you are Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist or Athiest, it welcomes people from all religions to worship. The faith emphasizes the worth and value of every person and they believe we as a people should be united by values and not religious dogma.

Christian Teachings
Against abortion
CHRISTIAN PATRIOTS FOR LIFE
Scriptural passages dealing with
the Unborn PERSON (and related)
Genesis 25:21 And Isaac entreated the LORD on behalf of his wife because she was barren; and the LORD was entreated by him, and Rebekah his wife became pregnant. 25:22 But the children pushed roughly inside her, and she said, "If it is like this, why am I here?" So she went to inquire of the LORD. 25:23 And the LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples will be separated from within you; and one people will be stronger than the other people, and the older will serve the younger." 25:24 And when her days were fulfilled that she should give birth, there were twins in her womb.
Exodus 21 22 "Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process, they hurt a pregnant woman so her child is born prematurely. If no further harm results, then the man responsible must pay damages in the amount the woman's husband demands and the judges approve. 23 But if any harm results, then the offender must be punished according to the injury. If the result is death, the offender must be executed
23:7 Never put an innocent or honest person to death. I will not allow anyone guilty of this to go free.
Deuteronomy Choose life, then, that you and your
descendants may live 30:19 It is I who bring both
death and life. 32:39
Judges 13:5 As for the son you will conceive and bear,
no razor shall touch his head, for this boy is to be
consecrated to God from the womb.
(From The Gospel of Life CHAPTER II -
I CAME THAT THEY MAY HAVE LIFE)
Job, from the depth of his pain, stops to contemplate the work of God who miraculously formed his body in his mother's womb. Here he finds reason for trust, and he expresses his belief that there is a divine plan for his life: "You have fashioned and made me; will you then turn and destroy me? Remember that you have made me of clay; and will you turn me to dust again? Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese? You clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews. You have granted me life and steadfast love; and your care has preserved my spirit" (Job 10:8-12).
Job 31:15 Did not he who made me in the womb make him?
Did not the same One fashion us before our birth?
Job 31:18 Though like a father God has reared me from my youth,
guiding me even from my mother's womb
Expressions of awe and wonder at God's intervention in the life of a child in its mother's womb occur again and again in the Psalms.
In the Old Testament, sterility is dreaded as a curse, while
numerous offspring are viewed as a blessing: "Sons are
a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward"
(Ps 127:3; cf. Ps 128:3-4).

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did
my mother conceive me.
Psalms 139: For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
King David speaks of his life before birth many times in the Psalms-- as a person very special and dear to Almighty God, yet still unseen and unknown by man.
Proverbs 24:11 Rescue those who are unjustly sentenced to
death; do not stand back and let them die.
Proverbs 31:8 Open your mouth for the speechless, In the
cause of all who are appointed to die.
Sirach 50:22 And now, bless the God of all, who has done
wondrous things on earth; Who fosters men's growth from
their mother's womb, and fashions them according to his will!
Isaiah 49:1 "Yahweh called me when I was in the womb,
before my birth he had pronounced my name." Can a woman
forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the
son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget
you. 16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you."
Amos 1:13 This is what the LORD says: "For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not turn back [my wrath]. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders,
(From The Gospel of Life CHAPTER II - I CAME THAT THEY MAY HAVE LIFE)
How can anyone think that even a single moment of this marvelous process of the unfolding of life could be separated from the wise and loving work of the Creator, and left prey to human caprice? Certainly the mother of the seven brothers did not think so; she professes her faith in God, both the source and guarantee of life from its very conception, and the foundation of the hope of new life beyond death: "I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of you. Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws" (2 Mac 7:22-23).
The Gospel according to St. Luke Chapter 1 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
St. Paul the Apostle But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through His grace (The Letter of Paul to the Galatians 1:15)

Teachings Against Abortion from the
Early Church Fathers, Doctors of the Church
and others
BARNABAS (early second century) "Never do away with an unborn child, or destroy it after its birth." (Epistle of Barnabas, chap. 19)
The DIDACHE (first century)
"You shall not slay the child by abortions." (Didache 2:2)
The Didache - Alternate title: The Teaching of the Twelve
Apostles c. 60-100 A.D.
The Didache is, in all probability, the oldest surviving extant piece of non-canonical literature. It is not so much a letter as a handbook for new Christian converts, consisting of instructions derived directly from the teachings of Jesus. The Didache claims to have been authored by the twelve apostles. While this is unlikely, the work could be a direct result of the first Apostolic Council, c.50 C.E.(Acts 15:28). Similarities to the Apostolic Decree are apparent, and the given structure of the church is quite primitive. Most scholars agree that the work, in its earliest form, may have circulated as early as the 60's C.E., though additions and modifications may have taken place well into the third century. 2:2 {Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication,{thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,{thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods, thou shalt not perjure thyself, thou shalt not bear false witness,} thou shalt not speak evil, thou shalt not cherish a grudge, thou shalt not be double-minded nor double-tongued;
The Apocalypse of Peter ca 135 "I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage and who procured abortions." -26
"Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so."
-2:264

HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME (170-236 AD) "Women who were reputed to be believers began to take drugs ... to expel what was conceived, since they did not want to have a child. See then what great impiety that lawless one [Emperor Callistus] has fallen to, by teaching both adultery and murder at the same time."
The Early Church Fathers condemned the atrocity of abortion as child murder and excommunicated for life until on their death bed, those women and her accomplices in the brutal act. It is a historical fact, Canon Law 1398 was applied immediately and rigorously in the Early Church.
ATHENAGORAS OF ATHENS (ca. 177 AD) "What reason would we have to commit murder when we even say that women who induce abortions are murderers, and will have to give account of it to God? For the same person would not regard the fetus in the womb as a living thing and therefore an object of God's care, and at the same time slay it, once it had come to life." (A Plea Regarding Christians, chapter 35)
TERTULLIAN (ca. 223 AD) "We acknowledge, therefore, that life begins with conception, because we contend that the soul begins at conception. Life begins when the soul begins." “For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb, while yet the mother’s blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder ... He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed.”
~ Tertullian, 197, Apologeticus, page 9.
"They [John and Jesus] were both alive while still in the womb. Elizabeth rejoiced as the infant leaped in her womb; Mary glorifies the Lord because Christ within inspired her. Each mother recognizes her child and is known by her child who is alive, being not merely souls but also spirits." -De A ninta 26:4
SAINT CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (223 AD) "Those who use abortifacients commit homicide."
“... if we would not kill off the human race born and developing according to God’s plan, then our whole lives would be lived according to nature. Women who make use of some sort of deadly abortion drug kill not only the embryo but, together with it, all human kindness.”
~ Clement of Alexandria, priest and the “Father of Theologians”(c. 150-220), Christ the Educator, Volume II, page 10.

flopears123 wrote:

<quoted text>
I learned recently after some redneck shot up a church in Knoxville killing two that I lean more towards the Unitarian Universalist belief system, moreso than Baptist. It's more an open-minded religion that encourages you to seek your own spiritual path whether you are Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist or Athiest, it welcomes people from all religions to worship. The faith emphasizes the worth and value of every person and they believe we as a people should be united by values and not religious dogma.

If I felt the need to join a congregation for worship purposes, I'd most likely join my local UU congregation. As it stands, though, I remain a member of the church I've attended since childhood, simply because the people there are a second, extended family to me. I don't worship there, however - my beliefs differ enough that I feel hypocritical. I probably fall somewhere in the middle of a cross between Unitarian Universalism, deism, and humanitarianism - an interesting combination.

marysaidyes2life wrote:

Teachings Against Abortion from the
Early Church Fathers, Doctors of the Church
and others
BARNABAS (early second century) "Never do away with an unborn child, or destroy it after its birth." (Epistle of Barnabas, chap. 19)
The DIDACHE (first century)
"You shall not slay the child by abortions." (Didache 2:2)
The Didache - Alternate title: The Teaching of the Twelve
Apostles c. 60-100 A.D.
The Didache is, in all probability, the oldest surviving extant piece of non-canonical literature. It is not so much a letter as a handbook for new Christian converts, consisting of instructions derived directly from the teachings of Jesus. The Didache claims to have been authored by the twelve apostles. While this is unlikely, the work could be a direct result of the first Apostolic Council, c.50 C.E.(Acts 15:28). Similarities to the Apostolic Decree are apparent, and the given structure of the church is quite primitive. Most scholars agree that the work, in its earliest form, may have circulated as early as the 60's C.E., though additions and modifications may have taken place well into the third century. 2:2 {Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication,{thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,{thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods, thou shalt not perjure thyself, thou shalt not bear false witness,} thou shalt not speak evil, thou shalt not cherish a grudge, thou shalt not be double-minded nor double-tongued;
The Apocalypse of Peter ca 135 "I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage and who procured abortions." -26
"Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so."
-2:264

That's nice.
Not everyone follows the same church - not even those who share a common belief in the same facet of gods. Therefore, it follows that if not everyone follows the same church, not everyone is required to abide by that church's dogma.

lalalulu wrote:

<quoted text>
Please don't tell me that this is a fantasy of yours!!

Thanks, Lala. I'll be taking my Clorox bath now!

z3ncat wrote:

<quoted text>
I haven't seen anyone who's pro-abortion in this thread. Pro-choice, sure, but no pro-abortion.

Don't confuse MarySaidYesToLies with anything factual. It taxes his brain (what's left of it).

Johnny13 wrote:

<quoted text>
There are many things that some of us support, and others don't.
I don't know how close or how current an example you want from me.
There is assisted suicide, and euthanasia. Some people want the draft reinstated.
I mentioned interracial marriage and the civil rights movement.

All of these are things people feel strongly about, and largely would not be personally affected by. I can't help but feel that some of your pals don't trust in your god's judgment in the end, or they would not imagine themselves a right to interfere.

Render unto Caesar right?

The bushel is full and overflowing.

Of the ones you briefly touched on, suicide and euthanasia stand out because they make us personally and as a society question the rights we have concerning life itself, similarly abortion. The defenseless nature of the subject, z/e/f/, coupled with the disagreement of its worth / value has and will fuel this debate like no other.
Hence,…no "good losers," ever.

You often speak of the unaffectedness this decision would have on others.
Whether logical or not it is obvious that millions are emotionally affected and compelled to act to prevent it. Simply saying you shouldn't feel that way will have no effect on these individuals. While this must frustrate you it is not a news-flash.
Hence again,…no "good losers," ever.

Observing the misinterpretations of scripture does frustrate me but it again is not a news-flash for me either.

marysaidyes2life wrote:

<quoted text>Well if God creates life, and clearly he does, and you judge those children as unworthy of life, then will God judge you as unworthy of eternal life?

I guess that's between her and God.....unless, of course, you've somehow been given that authority?

z3ncat wrote:

<quoted text>
[1] Argument from potential? No, it won't.
[2] And you don't recognize a person's right to bodily domain?
[3] So you're okay with rape then, and with forcible organ donations?

1. Why not?
2. I do recognize and support this argument.
3. No and no.

In your earlier post you state,

z3ncat wrote:

<quoted text>
A woman's right to defend her bodily domain, to make her own choices, and to rule her own life are **[far more important]** than a non-sentient, non-feeling, non-legally-recognized-person.

How have you personally formed the basis for this post above?

marysaidyes2life wrote:

Jesus has a strong affection for his creation. He loves unconditionally, and He expects the Unconditional love that we seem to lose as we grow older.

You don't even know why this is funny.

And the love is totally conditional, or no one would be sent to you notion of hell.

_ANONYMITY_ wrote:

<quoted text>
The bushel is full and overflowing.
Of the ones you briefly touched on, suicide and euthanasia stand out because they make us personally and as a society question the rights we have concerning life itself, similarly abortion. The defenseless nature of the subject, z/e/f/, coupled with the disagreement of its worth / value has and will fuel this debate like no other.
Hence,…no "good losers," ever.
You often speak of the unaffectedness this decision would have on others.
Whether logical or not it is obvious that millions are emotionally affected and compelled to act to prevent it. Simply saying you shouldn't feel that way will have no effect on these individuals. While this must frustrate you it is not a news-flash.
Hence again,…no "good losers," ever.
Observing the misinterpretations of scripture does frustrate me but it again is not a news-flash for me either.

Other peoples emotions should not trump "the fact" that the anti-choice society believes a woman shouldn't have the right to make her own MORAL DECISION about her pregnancy and her family. Society does not get to pick and choose which of her PERSONAL MORAL DECISIONS she gets to make and those that they will make for her. That doesn't cut the mustard Anon. For a woman, working outside the home is a moral dilemma also, will anti-choice society strip her of this right also? Either way, abortion or working outside the home or not effects her personal life, liberty and happiness and the people closest to her. It makes no sense that she can be trusted to make one moral decision for herself, but not all.

There is a young boy in KY, his name is Austin Adams and you can google it if there is any question. Austin has been fighting a rare form of cancer for 3 years now. He's 9. Austin has had more than 50 blood transfusions and over 100 chemo and radiation treatments, Austin decided it was time to stop. Austin decided it was time for his family to stop fighting for him and let him die. Why does this 9 year old get the right to choose what is best for him, but anti-choice society doesn't trust a woman to know what is best for hers? Is it because he can speak for himself?

Johnny13 wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't even know why this is funny.
And the love is totally conditional, or no one would be sent to you notion of hell.

Herein lies the problem, you fail to understand that God doesn't send anyone to hell. People Choose hell, over his unconditional love.

Dewhickey wrote:

<quoted text>
You doll! I miss you! Yah, I figured NR would implode or explode sooner or later. What's the "numbering system"? I be so out of it....

It was late when I was typing that, so I inadvertently did:

a)
2)

When I was listing things off....just a silly!

flopears123 wrote:

<quoted text>
I learned recently after some redneck shot up a church in Knoxville killing two that I lean more towards the Unitarian Universalist belief system, moreso than Baptist. It's more an open-minded religion that encourages you to seek your own spiritual path whether you are Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Methodist or Athiest, it welcomes people from all religions to worship. The faith emphasizes the worth and value of every person and they believe we as a people should be united by values and not religious dogma.

Some of them even have CUUPS (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans) chapters :)

flopears123 wrote:

<quoted text>
What are Catholics offering for martyrdom? 40 alter boys? No wonder they want to get to heaven so badly. I know, I know..........it's offensive.

Oh, hahaha, like the 60 virgins??

I am not feeling well, and yesterday when I read this I didn't get it.

Today, it suddenly struck me as to why this is funny!!!!(DUH!)

Good one, Flop!