Prove there's a god.

Armo wrote:

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There are many with no moral values who commit plenty of crimes , all because of no-fear-in-God.

If you were to poll the people in prison, most would say that they believe in a god. Crime is usually committed by people who have the mistaken idea that they won't get caught or who are so desperate for money, they don't care. The fear of god is not a factor.

You don't have to believe in the supernatural to be a moral person. In fact, morals based on fear is a very low form of ethics.

Abbey Yoyo wrote:

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What would you call that, if not religion?

Its called believing that God exists, don't worry what everyone else is doing, just worry about yourself.

Charlotte wrote:

God can not be proven, if sticking to a lexical definition, its a logical fallacy, anyone who has studied philosophy of logic knows this, its one of the first equations you study in freshman introduction.

And why can it not be proven? Because god does not reveal himself the way he used to in the good ol' OT days.

Sammy wrote:

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I disagree it is a question of "semantics". They were abundantly clear that one of their fundamental principles was "Freedom of Religion for all", not "Freedom of Religion for Christians".
It might be debated that they weren't thinking of "Freedom FROM Religion". But I would maintain it is a natural extention of "Freedom of Religion for all".
The notion of this being a "Christian Nation" is only supported by the fact that Christianity is the dominant religion for the time being. This is a very fleeting distinction, especially when the Christians start excluding Catholics and Mormons as "not Christian".

When you look at the big picture and consider their standpoint, they were making a solid break from Old Mother England and one of their beefs was the governmental order of religion.

Think about it, I am not a history buff but I know enough to know that the Protestant movement was still newly underway,(in a historical perspective), the average person still did not have access to a Bible, the government tried to maintain control THROUGH the church,(that's why I always argue that religion is not how to control people, unless you control the religion...but that's another discussion)

So these guys didn't want to invoke a standard 'religion' on the new America, they did want freedom of religion for all but the majority of the people claimed a christian faith...whether it was carried over from the upbringing in England or Christians trying to escape to the 'new Promised Land'...I don't believe Atheism, Agnosticism, or Secularism was even an issue then...

so it was placed in the constituion so that people could worship God outside the Government controlled church...that is what the REAL meaning behind separation of church and state was directed at...it wasn't so much to keep church out of government as it was to keep government out of the church!

Armo wrote:

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Even the scientests all agree, the big-bang had to be started BY something even bigger. A pendulim cannot start itself. Something HAS to get the ball rolling.
"we don't need no education!"

So we're quoting songs?

"Pressure! Pressin down on me, pressin down on you" etcetera

boatmoter wrote:
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I BELIEVE AFRICANS COME FROM APES, EVERYONE ELSE IS A DECENDANT OF ADAM & EVE..

That's nice. Now go away and educate yourself.

Abbey Yoyo wrote:

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I appears that you just turn off any common sense.

There's common sense,
then there's "spiritual sense"
even though you do not see them, we are surrounded by "spirits" all the time, they want to infulence our lives, and guide our decisions in order to serve them.
Spirits, such as, hate, greed, ego, pride, jealousy, envy, stubborness, unwilling to forgive, etc.

Poutyface wrote:

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SCIENCE TEXTBOOKS TELL US THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED THE BIG BANG WHICH CREATED THE UNIVERSE AND THE WORLD ITSELF(WHICH WAS THE ONLY THING THE BIBLE CLAIMS GOD CREATED) IS THE RESULT OF SEVERAL COLLISIONS AND GRAVITY AND WAS SHAPED BY A NUMBER OF VERY SLOW NATURAL PROCESSES SUCH AS CHEMICAL REACTIONS AND VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS AND ALL OF THIS CAN BE PROVEN BY THINGS LIKE GEOLOGIC RECORDS SO WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE IN A MAGIC HOODOO GOD INVENTING THE WORLD WHEN THERE'S A PERFECTLY REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATION THAT IS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN?

argument from incredulity: It's all just soooo amazing. It must have been made by magic. Please educate yourself.

Sammy wrote:

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I decided at best he's a troll at worst .... well the obvious. We don't really need to go there. Do we?

But he has a right to his say-so.

Poutyface wrote:

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Symbolic acts of destruction are ok? Well can I burn a bible then?

You can burn one if you like...what that would symbolize I don't know, other than a possible anger/hatred toward a God you don't believe in that claims He loves you...burn it if it makes you happy, my guess is it wont help much...

Maybe try reading it first...especially the parts that talk about His love and grace...at the end of the day that is the important part!

You see I think like a computer, with total logic. And if it is not logical, I do not believe it. I maintain an open mind and consider all angles.

Religious defenses can be easily explained away.

Arguments against God are valid.

If you connect the dots, Atheism is the only conclusion.

1. Something has no beginning. Its either The Universe or a God/s that created it. Its either/or. So what does the evidence support... Either God/s or the Universe Has NO BEGINNING.

2. We have witnessed by telescope the creation and death of other planets and stars. This is a natural process.

3. The fossil record supports No God. Why? A haphazard record would support a God. A less complex/more complex record supports no God. We find the latter.

4. Most people believe in one God. And reject hundreds of others. Statistically the odds of any one religion being correct s less than 1%. That is simple Math.

5. There is no good reason to accept Christianity over other religions. We in Europe were Christian through an accident of history. Rome/Christians invaded and massacred Europe, and Charles Martel defeated the Muslims at the Battle of Tours in 732. If either of those 2 outcomes had been different we would feel just as convinced that Pagan or Islam was the true faith. That is logical.

6. The bible is full of contradictions
7. Modern archeaology contradicts the bible.
8. The early Christian church settled upon their doctrine in arbitrary fashion - this in itself destroys it's credibility as an historical account.
9. The Church promoted fraud. That is a well known fact.
10 Evolution is a proven fact - NOT a theory. We know it occurs. Why do we continually need to change vaccines? Because bacteria evolves..... We've witnessed it in other species.
11. There is the psychological component to religion. The human brain requires religion. As children we want to believe in something greater than ourselves. As we age and our parents fail to meet that goal we create a Super Human God.

12. People's greatest fear is the unknown - death - so religion is created to make Death more appealing. We create a magica place where a magical Super Guy will take care of us forever. Magic magic magic, and this serves Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

The evidence is there.

I am a 100% Atheist because I have considered all angles, religion, biology, astronomy, psychology, chemistry, geology etc.

And when all evidence is weighed, Gods are imaginary.

We created them to serve our psychological need and explain answers to questions.

Science is now providing some of those answers.

In light of all the evidence, I maintain that this vast empty space has no beginning or end. Its just there. If you can conceive an infinite God, why not an infinite Universe instead? Its one of the 2.

All matter within the Universe changes, and has a beginning and end by our definition including our planet, and sun and us.

Abbey Yoyo wrote:

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If you were to poll the people in prison, most would say that they believe in a god. Crime is usually committed by people who have the mistaken idea that they won't get caught or who are so desperate for money, they don't care. The fear of god is not a factor.
You don't have to believe in the supernatural to be a moral person. In fact, morals based on fear is a very low form of ethics.

Is IS quite possible for these people to change, I should know. But there MUST be a willingness to change, first, one must recognize there is no one to blame but yourself. then seek help.

Gee-whiz kid wrote:

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And we disagree on this point ...how???

I was responding to this post of yours:

...so the argument remains valid on that point that we are a christian nation...but most of the God professing founding fathers would be classified as I understand it, as Deists.

Armo wrote:

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Even the scientests all agree, the big-bang had to be started BY something even bigger. A pendulim cannot start itself. Something HAS to get the ball rolling.
"we don't need no education!"

The difference is that Scientists are still looking for evidence of what it might have been.

Religions folk BELIEVE they already KNOW with out any evidence.

Armo wrote:

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But he has a right to his say-so.

Never questioned that. I just questioned the wisdom in engaging in the dialog.

Armo wrote:

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Even the scientests all agree, the big-bang had to be started BY something even bigger. A pendulim cannot start itself. Something HAS to get the ball rolling.
"we don't need no education!"

If you want to claim that a god was behind the big bang, for the moment, who cares? But what does that have to do with Jesus and all the rest?
You can't prove that your god was behind the big bang. And you can't prove that the supernatural even exists in any form. If you can, you should tell James Randi at his website. He's got a million dollars for you.

Dre wrote:

Wow theirs a lot of comments all i can tell you is why do you question it? Do you question your existence as well? If you think you know the answer then you tell us. Obviously you cant! this world is so complex and theirs so many things that we simply dont know becasue we dont have that power and comprehension its much easier to give up and deny and turn our backs on things isnt it? but we do experience life and the things it has to offer whether good or bad jsut look around you and be thankful that someone loved you enough to give you life.

Questioning is one of the tools in Satans arsenal, There is nothing wrong with asking question to further ones knowledge, but not to question God. Even Satan questioned God to Eve
" did God really say that?" That question produced doubt, and that started the separation.

Armo wrote:

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Its called believing that God exists, don't worry what everyone else is doing, just worry about yourself.

And if I decide that there is insufficient data to make a conclusion. How does that make a problem for you?

Charlotte wrote:

God can not be proven, if sticking to a lexical definition, its a logical fallacy, anyone who has studied philosophy of logic knows this, its one of the first equations you study in freshman introduction.
Finally, to the people who request a proof there isn't, its a BIGGER logical fallacy, its called the "false negative".

I'll say it, as a born again bible-thumping, Jesus Loving, Devil shoving, blood bought Christian as a testifying child of the King..."you CANNOT prove there the God of the Bible is real" He has set it up to be received by faith and THAT is a gift of God so that no man can boast (Ephesians 2:8) It is through faith and faith alone you will find Him...He has set it up that way from the beginning and it is to His glory that it remains that way today... so to believe or not to believe that is the question we ALL must answer. God Bless you in your answer

Gee-whiz kid wrote:

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When you look at the big picture and consider their standpoint, they were making a solid break from Old Mother England and one of their beefs was the governmental order of religion.
Think about it, I am not a history buff but I know enough to know that the Protestant movement was still newly underway,(in a historical perspective), the average person still did not have access to a Bible, the government tried to maintain control THROUGH the church,(that's why I always argue that religion is not how to control people, unless you control the religion...but that's another discussion)
So these guys didn't want to invoke a standard 'religion' on the new America, they did want freedom of religion for all but the majority of the people claimed a christian faith...whether it was carried over from the upbringing in England or Christians trying to escape to the 'new Promised Land'...I don't believe Atheism, Agnosticism, or Secularism was even an issue then...
so it was placed in the constituion so that people could worship God outside the Government controlled church...that is what the REAL meaning behind separation of church and state was directed at...it wasn't so much to keep church out of government as it was to keep government out of the church!

The founding fathers were well traveled and were well aware of Hinduism, Buddism, among others. If they had not intended religious freedom to apply to them, they would have said so in no uncertain terms.