Morals and Values

JustWow wrote:

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This actually brings up another interesting point.
If in fact morals are constant and come from a "higher power" as some suggest, wouldn't morals be relatively standard for all people?
That my morality on certain things and your morality on those things differ would suggest that we learn our morality from somewhere else and they are not in fact "ingrained" in us.

I guess that explains people like Jeffery Dalmer? He was raised in a 'good' family yet his morals somehow went heywire........

</liberalism>

Exrea wrote:

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awww, so that explains what has happened in America...
However, I still do not think there is anything remotely moral about abortion...JMHO
</liberalism>

The moral part of abortion involves giving women reproductive freedom involving their own bodies. It's not about the fetus, it's about the right to not be pregnant.

Jesse wrote:

<quoted text> I decide what I think is right and what is wrong. You can be part of a consesus if you believe in group thought.

And what a coincidence your views of right and wrong are the same as other people in your various in-groups, huh?

JustWow wrote:

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It does appear that some morals are universal even in areas and times that there was no concept of gods certain actions were still considered morally "right" and morally "wrong".

http://www.evolutionaryethics.com/

Exrea wrote:

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I guess that explains people like Jeffery Dalmer? He was raised in a 'good' family yet his morals somehow went heywire........
</liberalism>

I was thinking people a little less nuts.

JustWow wrote:

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Thanks Jim.
Where do you suppose those that don't follow the christian idea of god get their morals from?
It does appear that some morals are universal even in areas and times that there was no concept of gods certain actions were still considered morally "right" and morally "wrong".

well, i believe that we all have that "inner voice" which distinguishes right from wrong. Some listen to it, and some flat ignore it. I believe that we are all born with a sense of right and wrong, but some people just get their kicks from doing things against the grain and like to live dangeriously, for whatever reason.
peace

JustWow wrote:

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I was thinking people a little less nuts.

hmmm, less nuts eh! Well maybe the Troll of Topix might meet your expectations....I can think of one in particular that is morally corrupt.
Not name calling here (that's a dif thread) just saying what I think...

</liberalism>

Justwow:
Where do you suppose those that don't follow the christian idea of god get their morals from?
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>

,,,,,,,,,,
When you live in a nation that is 80 percent Christian, that value system would tend to encompass both believer and non believer. Puppy dog is a delicacy in South Korea, I believe, yet we, as a nation, frown upon partaking in the delight of the epicurean delicacy of any canine species. In other words, when in Rome, people that are born there or live there for a long time, do what the Romans do.

jimwings wrote:

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well, i believe that we all have that "inner voice" which distinguishes right from wrong. Some listen to it, and some flat ignore it. I believe that we are all born with a sense of right and wrong, but some people just get their kicks from doing things against the grain and like to live dangeriously, for whatever reason.
peace

Here is an example for you (a couple of them actually).
Would you consider human sacrifice wrong? The vast majority of people today would. Yet, less than 1000 years ago it was looked on very differently.

Would you consider slavery wrong? Again most would. Yet less than 200 years ago it was not only considered the right thing to do in this country, the fight to end it was one of the hardest things for our nation to go through.

Would you consider adultry wrong? Again you would probably be with the majority in saying it is.
But, would you consider receiving the death penalty as punishment for adultry wrong? Yet this is still done today.

If we all have this "inner voice" that tells us right from worng, why does that voice change its message over time and in different cultures?

Exrea wrote:

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hmmm, less nuts eh! Well maybe the Troll of Topix might meet your expectations....I can think of one in particular that is morally corrupt.
Not name calling here (that's a dif thread) just saying what I think...
</liberalism>

LOL
I can think of several myself.

keltec 9mm wrote:

When you live in a nation that is 80 percent Christian, that value system would tend to encompass both believer and non believer. Puppy dog is a delicacy in South Korea, I believe, yet we, as a nation, frown upon partaking in the delight of the epicurean delicacy of any canine species. In other words, when in Rome, people that are born there or live there for a long time, do what the Romans do.

Are you saying you get your morality from the society you are born into or raised in?

Hey WIP, Have you ever read "Lord of the Flies"? All these comments about learning morals from your family and society made me think of that. Do you think it happened because they were kids, or were males or because it was in wartime? What happened to their morals? I am asking because I want your opinion, I am not asking out of snideness or sarcasm. I would like to hear your thoughts on this question. Thanks.

JustWow wrote:

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Are you saying you get your morality from the society you are born into or raised in?

It's the strong valid reason..

Writing in Paradise wrote:

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Look up "sociopath". It was later renamed to "antisocial personality disorder" and start reading. It's some scary stuff.

I've read about that before. I think a traumatic event or something wrong in their brain made them that way. I think a traumatic event is the main cause of it.

Exrea wrote:

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I guess that explains people like Jeffery Dalmer? He was raised in a 'good' family yet his morals somehow went heywire........
</liberalism>

Anti-social disorder explains him.

carbon wrote:

Hey WIP, Have you ever read "Lord of the Flies"? All these comments about learning morals from your family and society made me think of that. Do you think it happened because they were kids, or were males or because it was in wartime? What happened to their morals? I am asking because I want your opinion, I am not asking out of snideness or sarcasm. I would like to hear your thoughts on this question. Thanks.

Their in-groups changed. They had no families anymore, and no real education either. If you look at it, they behaved like African natives or middle-eastern taliban. They even started to get superstitious, believing in a "beast" in the dark, just like any ignorant native.

They divided themselves into smaller in-groups, and thus bigger out-groups. Humans aren't very good at treating out-groups well. Neither are animals. We're getting better, but only because our in-groups are expanding, not because our out-group treatment is improving.

Finally, it's important to remember that The Lord of the Flies is fiction. It's one man's idea of what MIGHT happen. Real life shows us that it doesn't usually happen like that. A few people go crazy, but the rest of the population brings them back in line.

PHONEY wrote:

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This post shows what is wrong with secular morals.
If you apply your morals you were suppose to be taught you wont get pregnant, but once pregnant
you have a second chance to use the morals you were taught to no abort. Many women fail this test do to
secular beliefs and need to be accepted by peers.

Your entire premise depends on the idea that abortion is wrong. If we don't consider it wrong, the rest of your argument falls apart.

Rose wood wrote:

<quoted text> I've read about that before. I think a traumatic event or something wrong in their brain made them that way. I think a traumatic event is the main cause of it.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For some it's biological or genetic in origin.

PHONEY wrote:

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This is are hard question to answer not sure anyone
can get the answer right.

Those answers become easy when you start looking to natural selection instead of the bible.

JustWow wrote:

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How about just look at the book of Leviticus.
Really take your pick but I would focus on the homosexuality is an abomination towards god parts.
That is the justification currently being used to keep them from having equal rights under the law.

So you're saying every American that is against gay rights is Christian and they are against it cause of the Jewish book of Leviticus.
So what do Obama and the Clintons use from the OT to criticise? Or to favor gay rights?
This is kinda like saying all atheists use Origin of Species to prove their point.