Ford to cut 25,000 to 30,000 jobs, close 14 facilities by 2012

Drjohn wrote:

<quoted text>
Mike,
My uncle is a Ford retiree as well. He worked his way up, and was an executive in Detroit for most of his career (some of it at other manufacturers, but most at Ford).
I was just looking at new F150s today. They are a great product. You guys are doing a great job with that truck. I'll probably be picking one up in the spring unless I can get a better deal elsewhere.(My family and I are all in the auto industry, so I get employee deal at Ford and Chrysler and supplier at GM.) I have a vested interest in the US auto industry doing well.
I do have one question though. would you be making that excellent per hour wage doing the same work someplace else, or without the extortion by the UAW of Ford?
If the answer is no, that's one of the issues facing the auto industry today.

You hit it in one, its what destroyed our home car industry unions forcing wages too high.
It is nice to see you say a new Ford is good because compared with Jap and Malay they been too easily "rusters for the scrapyard" here as well as overpriced.
As my great uncle was one of Ford's first "line managers" in the original US factory, I would be sorry to see it disappear, but as things stand I am sure he's "turning in his grave" at the stupidity of some.

Stan wrote:

<quoted text>
You hit it in one, its what destroyed our home car industry unions forcing wages too high.
It is nice to see you say a new Ford is good because compared with Jap and Malay they been too easily "rusters for the scrapyard" here as well as overpriced.
As my great uncle was one of Ford's first "line managers" in the original US factory, I would be sorry to see it disappear, but as things stand I am sure he's "turning in his grave" at the stupidity of some.

From Wikipedia:

"Ford was the last Detroit automaker to recognize the United Auto Workers union (UAW). A sit-down strike by the UAW union in April 1941 closed the River Rouge Plant. Under pressure from Edsel and his wife, Clara, Henry Ford finally agreed to collective bargaining at Ford plants, and the first contract with the UAW was signed in June 1941"

The beginning of the end...

Drjohn wrote:

<quoted text>
From Wikipedia:
"Ford was the last Detroit automaker to recognize the United Auto Workers union (UAW). A sit-down strike by the UAW union in April 1941 closed the River Rouge Plant. Under pressure from Edsel and his wife, Clara, Henry Ford finally agreed to collective bargaining at Ford plants, and the first contract with the UAW was signed in June 1941"
The beginning of the end...

Yes so true

Drjohn wrote:

<quoted text>
From Wikipedia:
"Ford was the last Detroit automaker to recognize the United Auto Workers union (UAW). A sit-down strike by the UAW union in April 1941 closed the River Rouge Plant. Under pressure from Edsel and his wife, Clara, Henry Ford finally agreed to collective bargaining at Ford plants, and the first contract with the UAW was signed in June 1941"
The beginning of the end...

The sad fact is that while Ford and other major
companies are on the verge of bankruptcy largely
because of inefficiencies and lower quality pro-
ducts, the vast majority of public sector wages
are based on pay scales routinely measured by
comparing them to union workers at companies like
Ford. Unfortunately, while the private companies
may close, merge, or whatever, Americans are
stuck footing the bill for overpaid public sector
workers. The result is ... well ... pretty obvious.
Its why people in the private sector jump at the
opportunity to get a public sector job.

Bill R wrote:

<quoted text>
The sad fact is that while Ford and other major
companies are on the verge of bankruptcy largely
because of inefficiencies and lower quality pro-
ducts, the vast majority of public sector wages
are based on pay scales routinely measured by
comparing them to union workers at companies like
Ford. Unfortunately, while the private companies
may close, merge, or whatever, Americans are
stuck footing the bill for overpaid public sector
workers. The result is ... well ... pretty obvious.
Its why people in the private sector jump at the
opportunity to get a public sector job.

Yes Bill, but when the Private sector goes down to the "competative" will the "public sector" get a negative rise?
Its OK I know the answer you don't need to answer. Well thats the answer at least till the Nation is Bankrupt totally at least.

The depression is going to hit soon folks count on it , The manufacturing industry is being out sourced by Idiots . Our trade ratio one trillion a year . Destroyed the steel , auto and electronics industry in the U.S. Millions laid off . probably by summer 07 count on it.

Ddh34 wrote:

The depression is going to hit soon folks count on it , The manufacturing industry is being out sourced by Idiots . Our trade ratio one trillion a year . Destroyed the steel , auto and electronics industry in the U.S. Millions laid off . probably by summer 07 count on it.

Doesn’t really matter as we will be up to our eyeballs in WWIII before end of summer. Wait and see. A lot of jobs will be created for war machine

Bill R wrote:

<quoted text>
The sad fact is that while Ford and other major
companies are on the verge of bankruptcy largely
because of inefficiencies and lower quality pro-
ducts, the vast majority of public sector wages
are based on pay scales routinely measured by
comparing them to union workers at companies like
Ford. Unfortunately, while the private companies
may close, merge, or whatever, Americans are
stuck footing the bill for overpaid public sector
workers. The result is ... well ... pretty obvious.
Its why people in the private sector jump at the
opportunity to get a public sector job.

Yep. Government job, or what used to be known as “Irish Welfare.“

Bill R wrote:

<quoted text>
The sad fact is that while Ford and other major
companies are on the verge of bankruptcy largely
because of inefficiencies and lower quality pro-
ducts, the vast majority of public sector wages
are based on pay scales routinely measured by
comparing them to union workers at companies like
Ford. Unfortunately, while the private companies
may close, merge, or whatever, Americans are
stuck footing the bill for overpaid public sector
workers. The result is ... well ... pretty obvious.
Its why people in the private sector jump at the
opportunity to get a public sector job.

That's why as WNY empties out because no company wants to operate there, the huge tax burden shifts to those who stay.

Stan wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes Bill, but when the Private sector goes down to the "competative" will the "public sector" get a negative rise?
Its OK I know the answer you don't need to answer. Well thats the answer at least till the Nation is Bankrupt totally at least.

Yes. Public employment costs are an unavoidable
train wreck coming down the track.

CeeDubya wrote:

<quoted text>
Doesn’t really matter as we will be up to our eyeballs in WWIII before end of summer. Wait and see. A lot of jobs will be created for war machine

The industrial sector that has dwindled can't
be restarted that easily. It is time consuming
and the cost is huge. A lot of equipment has
been decommissioned and sold for scrap. Take a
look at the those factories around where you are
and ask yourself how long it would take to get
them up and running again ... and who would run
them. People have moved on to other places and
other occupations out of necessity.

Bill R wrote:

<quoted text>
The industrial sector that has dwindled can't
be restarted that easily. It is time consuming
and the cost is huge. A lot of equipment has
been decommissioned and sold for scrap. Take a
look at the those factories around where you are
and ask yourself how long it would take to get
them up and running again ... and who would run
them. People have moved on to other places and
other occupations out of necessity.

Just a reminder of post I once put in somewhere.
And part of the problem would be that "corporates" cannot believe employing people so they can feed themselves" is better than automation. Thus first they got to find the money for and install that.( It was ref where I stated re the company I had and we would not automate, prefering to employ people yet showed every "corp here" we could out price out produce and have better quality than the far East competitors that they were losing out to AND pay over minimium wage. We took several contracts back into UK from China, much to Dear Maggies annoyance. She was running down our manufacturing at time and converting to "Service Industries". Seems though feeding people not machines is not ever a priority in the "capitalistic world" unless you connected with the "estab" otherwise known as "public sector". It was quite funny at the time because in reality till that point "I was one of her golden sucess stories" (Part of our activities was a service industry) but I insisted on also manufacturing the things we designed for worldwide customers and it brought a head on. Bit like the train wreck you just predicted for the "public sector" there.
Note to you Corporates "wanna get trained how I did it" well my pension needs a "small top up" so any offers over $10000 a day may be of interest.(Sorry Bill could not resist that one,but cost of my two youngest rather escalating with all the goodies they keep wanting lately)

Bill R wrote:

<quoted text>
The industrial sector that has dwindled can't
be restarted that easily. It is time consuming
and the cost is huge. A lot of equipment has
been decommissioned and sold for scrap. Take a
look at the those factories around where you are
and ask yourself how long it would take to get
them up and running again ... and who would run
them. People have moved on to other places and
other occupations out of necessity.

No argument here. What you say is not only true, but unknown by average citizen. Let’s just hope we can bounce back as we did during WWII crisis, and hope there is some sort of secret weapon to save the day when the inevitable happens.

CeeDubya wrote:

<quoted text>
No argument here. What you say is not only true, but unknown by average citizen. Let’s just hope we can bounce back as we did during WWII crisis, and hope there is some sort of secret weapon to save the day when the inevitable happens.

No "secret weapon" its just called "poverty" a great focus word for the "mind" on "reality" and doing what necessary for the "Bucks".

I agree Panda, I moving to a city, living in the suburbs now. And I'm thinking that I may not need a car. That would be cool! No car repairs, no buying gasoline, no registration fee's and taxes so on... And I'm looking at everything I buy. If I don't like what that Corporation is doing I don't buy period. Better they go down then we Americans.

Pinohio wrote:

I agree Panda, I moving to a city, living in the suburbs now. And I'm thinking that I may not need a car. That would be cool! No car repairs, no buying gasoline, no registration fee's and taxes so on... And I'm looking at everything I buy. If I don't like what that Corporation is doing I don't buy period. Better they go down then we Americans.

Corporations ARE we Americans.

Drjohn wrote:

<quoted text>
That was Mitsubishi....

I work on cars & trucks every day. Mitsubishi's are rust buckets, The burn oil. How can you say they're better. Toyotas have rust problems their trucks are horrible rust buckets & yes they break down, And their parts are way over priced. Datsuns were the biggest pieces of crap on the face of this earth. It's sad that so called americans hate americans.F@*k the japs. Hope you lose your job Soon!Merry Christmas you jap lover.

Sorry Drjohn That statement I wrote Is for the guy that loves the japs. Not you. I'am sorry it was posted like it is. It's sad to see americans that no longer cares about thier country. I have to laugh about a toyota pickup i see once in a while, Abumper sticker reads," Buy from your local farmers" A think thats funny.That makes me wanna buy apples from china ! HA HA HA ,

Ken wrote:

Sorry Drjohn That statement I wrote Is for the guy that loves the japs. Not you. I'am sorry it was posted like it is. It's sad to see americans that no longer cares about thier country. I have to laugh about a toyota pickup i see once in a while, Abumper sticker reads," Buy from your local farmers" A think thats funny.That makes me wanna buy apples from china ! HA HA HA ,

No big deal.

Toyotas are built here in the US however. Toyota and their suppliers employ a ton of American labor.

Hey, Yanks, read up on Karl Marx. He's the best predictor of your future. At the turn of the last century, esp. after the October Revolution, people at the levers of wealth and power in the US did just that, while much of the rest of America was dancing "Charleston" and figuring ways to find bootleg liquor.

They understood the specter of Communism or Socialism stalking Europe, esp. after the October Revolution, took it very seriously, and instituted laws and economic measures and structures to prevent American working classes from organizing effectively and from developing class consciouslness. Henry Ford's original "volkswagen", the Model-T was the thing that would save America from Communism: the workers would own them and, hopefully, instead of joining the union and going on strike, they would be now concerned with finding money to keep paying off their cars, which in turn would keep them happy and docile, and brimming with hopeful thoughts.

The brainwshing, the "kllling me softly" of the average American was amazingly effective and ingenious. The Bolsheviks' efforts at the same in USSR for 70 years, pale by comparison.

If we all just work hard enough we can all become rich. The mythology of Horatio Alger. The manifest destiny.You got no health insurance or ability to pay for your children's daycare but you got
your snot 'n tears ready to flow at the sound of
"The Star Spangled Banner. Isn't that a slave's mentality?

Well, once again, thanks to the Reagan/Bush Republican "revolutions", average American finds himself in a state that's more reminiscent of the late 19th century than 21st: no economic leverage;
no control over jobs; mostly destroyed social safety net; total alienation from the political process; inaccessible system of justice, unless one can afford an expensive lawyer; forced to toe the corporate model of life; nearly absolute power of banking/corporate interests over the economy and much of the governemnt; majority of working people permanently in debt, etc.

When da f... are you gonna wake up and show yourself to be the free people YOU THINK you are??


Lou Dobbs for President!