Ford to cut 25,000 to 30,000 jobs, close 14 facilities by 2012

a gonzalez wrote:

Ford is thinking only in making cars at lower cost, no matter if this causes laid-offs in USA, for example new crossover EDGE will be built in Canada, FUSION, MILAN, ZAPHIR is currently being build in Mexico, what is next?

Unions were allowed to become too strong under the Dems in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Unions have the power to shut these car companies down. The companies would be stupid not to move their production out of the country. If you want to see cars built in the U.S., then the unions are going to have to go and neither Ford nor GM have the power to get rid of them. All they can do is to outsource them into irrelevance. It's fine and appropriate to lament the loss of jobs, but no one will buy a car that costs a $1,000 more just because it was built with union workers.

BuckRon wrote:

<quoted text>

Unions were allowed to become too strong under the Dems in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Unions have the power to shut these car companies down. The companies would be stupid not to move their production out of the country. If you want to see cars built in the U.S., then the unions are going to have to go and neither Ford nor GM have the power to get rid of them. All they can do is to outsource them into irrelevance. It's fine and appropriate to lament the loss of jobs, but no one will buy a car that costs a $1,000 more just because it was built with union workers. Unions were

Unions were made too strong by dems in the 60,70,80s. Look at union membership numbers. They peaked in the 60s. There were also major union concessions in the late 70s and 80s. There was also the air traffic controllers strike in 81-82. Reagan fired them. Look it up!Blaming everything on unions or Dems might work in some places but not with me. You are also ignoring the fact that US car companies placed their bets on SUVs. When they stopped selling, they had nothing to fall back on. NEXT!

Dave wrote:

You guys crack me up. So you think 1 high paid CEO is putting Ford and GM out of business. What about the thousands of over paid under worked union clowns. Getting paid super high wages and benifits for what they do vs the real working guy. Thats the real problem. And the union will fight to the end to bring both companies down, while the foreign companies come in and take over. If the unions got reasable, worked with the compoany and made it stronger, both could be even better. Sure some will lose jobs, but they will survive..

You betcha. It's the unions bringing the country down (oh, and of course lawyers too.) Why else can a borderline moron get a job paying him/her $45 an hour with benifits up the wazzuu for performing shoddy work? And when we all finally refuse to spend our hard earned money on a POS American made vehicle, you know it's got to be Bush and those damned Republican's faults. If these idiots didn't have those unions covering their unqualified butts all these years, maybe they would take some pride in their jobs like the Japanese or Koreans do and turn out a vehicle worth paying for. Maybe after they get laid off, they'll be forced to get a job where they'll actually have to do the job right if they want a paycheck at the end of the week. Probably not though. They'll probably all go on subsidy.

Pandadoll wrote:

We should just stop buying cars anyway. Car manufacturers should make a change of skin for people to buy instead. Buying new cars just makes more garbage that there is NO place to put anymore. Come to think of it everyone should stop buying everything, & dtop making garbage in general.

OK. Maybe I'm a little dense here, but just how, exactly, would we get around w/o cars? What good would these new skins do for us unless we were unhappy with the race we were born into or had a bad case of acne or just happened to be old and wrinkled. I'm guessing your post is a joke. You can't be serious. And, by the way, there's plenty of room for more garbage. Hillary Clinton has a big old piece of property, send it all there.

They dont make $45 an hour with benefits up the yazoo. The $45/hr rate is including the paid benefits. Most make 18-29 an hour. Add $6/hr for pension. $11/hr for healthcare etc. Thats how you get the $40-50/hr rates. They do that with a lot of union jobs. The rate is the entire package. Its still a great deal but people misconstru it. Any job with benefits would sound a lot better if those things were incorporated into the hourly rate.

parlo wrote:

They dont make $45 an hour with benefits up the yazoo. The $45/hr rate is including the paid benefits. Most make 18-29 an hour. Add $6/hr for pension.$11/hr for healthcare etc. Thats how you get the $40-50/hr rates. They do that with a lot of union jobs. The rate is the entire package. Its still a great deal but people misconstru it. Any job with benefits would sound a lot better if those things were incorporated into the hourly rate.

Oh poo. Either way, they're paid too much for the quality of work they turn out. You sound like a Union man to me. I still think they get more than what you quoted anyway. The amount you said could be starting salary.

JOJI wrote:

<quoted text>

Oh poo. Either way, they're paid too much for the quality of work they turn out. You sound like a Union man to me. I still think they get more than what you quoted anyway. The amount you said could be starting salary.

The starting salary is between 15-20/hr depending on the trade. I was in a union job for about 8 yrs in the 90s. Construction, but you learn about the different unions. I have no problem with your views, I just like to set the record straight when I see misleading info.One other thing, the big money comes with overtime!!! But you can get laid off for periods too. Or have limited hours(early 90s)But $30/hr for 2000 hours(50 wks x 40) plus another 15,000 in OT is pretty good. I agree.

Who pays for non-union workers health costs?
Everyone else.
Who pays for non-union workers welfare costs when they are too old to work?
Everyone else.

Who pays these costs for union workers?
Union workers.

There are now over 100,000 layoffs in the pipeline for the auto industry: Everyone is loosing money.
Six years age, they were hiring; Everyone was making money.
What is different? Not unions, they were there in good times, now suffer in bad. Not Toyota, US cars now are better (with a few exceptions)than Japanese cars. Toyota isn't doing all that well either.

I just can't figure it out. In 1999, everything was great. Now it is in the crapper.
Is it terorists?
I don't think so, They only hit NYC & DC. No auto showrooms wreaked by Osama.

What then? What is the big damned difference between 2006 from 1999?
Was it the Prince song? Did it seem so golden? Was it an illusion?
Was there really love, peace, and happiness?

No, it was 'way better.

Answer these questions:
Extra points for good logic and research.
Points deducted for predjuduce, illogic, dogmatism, and plain stupidity.

WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR LIVES?

I dont have time to respond to all of this. Two areas, healthcare and SUVs are big ones. IBM is having major problems with its healthcare costs too. The US car companies also placed their bets so heavily on SUVs, trucks, and large cars, that when fuel prices went up they were hurt bad. Toyota, Honda etc were not hurt by this nearly as much. I dont have the research in front of me but I know it came from WSJ and business section of NYT. The union bashing is just par for the course with misleading info.

MrBill wrote:

Who pays for non-union workers health costs?
Everyone else.
Who pays for non-union workers welfare costs when they are too old to work?
Everyone else.

Who pays these costs for union workers?
Union workers.

There are now over 100,000 layoffs in the pipeline for the auto industry: Everyone is loosing money.
Six years age, they were hiring; Everyone was making money.
What is different? Not unions, they were there in good times, now suffer in bad. Not Toyota, US cars now are better (with a few exceptions)than Japanese cars. Toyota isn't doing all that well either.

I just can't figure it out. In 1999, everything was great. Now it is in the crapper.
Is it terorists?
I don't think so, They only hit NYC & DC. No auto showrooms wreaked by Osama.

What then? What is the big damned difference between 2006 from 1999?
Was it the Prince song? Did it seem so golden? Was it an illusion?
Was there really love, peace, and happiness?

No, it was 'way better.

Answer these questions:
Extra points for good logic and research.
Points deducted for predjuduce, illogic, dogmatism, and plain stupidity.

WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR LIVES?

Ahh, the beloved Clinton years.

Cru wrote:

where are those 30,000 people gonna get jobs? GM is gonna make cuts too, where are all those people gonna get get jobs? When is this country gonna wake up. Its headed towards another depression, and its all caused by greedy CEO's trying to make more money by shipping all our work out of the country. freshen up on your Chinese cuz its just a matter of time before were all speaking it.

Lest we forget the greed of the labor unions

JOJI wrote:

<quoted text>

Ahh, the beloved Clinton years.

Joji, You say it with a sneer, but you got it right. I'll bet it hurt to say it. Did it?

Yes, everything was better in the Clinton years.
He didn't use Nixon's slogan " Law and Order, & States Rights" because those are code words for racism. No racism in Clinton's White House. No Jim Crow at the Presidential election polls.
He didn't use Ron Reagan's slogan "A new morning for America" (Which put US in great debt because of his vodoo economics <trickle down = trickle OUT.>) Some new morning. A new morning for JAPAN, more like it.
He didn't use GHW Bush's slogan '1000 points of light" because just about everyone realized it is meaningless BULLSH*T.
And He didn't use GW Bush's slogan "free the people from government" because it isn't government enslaving the people.

He did have as his slogan "It's the economy, stupid." And it was relaxing to know that he actally strove (successfully) to cut the Gordian knot of high debt & low economy left by the previous two presidents. He succeeded, on almost all counts. I do oppose and curse his joining the Republican Congress to pass NAFTA. I think NAFTA is an economic and environmental disaster for the whole continent.
Other than that, all the criticism of Clinton is based in feel-good stupidity and predjudice, not reality.
So he had illicit sexual activity in his home and office. That is a family matter, not anyone elses' business. Certainly not yours.

As to those who say..."but it was in the Oval Office" I say; SO WHAT! the Oval Office is not the Holy of Holies, not the sanctum Sanctorum, not the Temple Wall, St. Peters Basilica, not the Temple of the Rock, None of the above.
It is a place where killing, murder, spying, assasination, cheating, stealing, deathdealing, lying, and all manor of sins are committed every day by every President who takes an oath to protect this country.

So stop the wailing.

Things were great, now they suck.

BUSH SUCKS.
REAL BAD.
TRAINWRECK.

P.S. Yes, Cheney was drunk as a Lord.
P.P.S. gasoline cost $1.39/Gal under Clinton.
P.P.P.S.$250.00 medicine prescriptions cast $18.00 under Clinton.

I for one miss Clinton.I miss cheap gas,cheaper health ins,more money in the pocket,I miss peace!
But the snow storms were bad.

Vince Foster wrote:

In Short, UNIONS.

I know UAW and other labor groups will automatically dismiss anything I say here since my name shows my education/level. Regardless, I am a former union member & have a brother who is a UAW member in St. Louis.
Unions performed an important role in our nation many years ago. Since that time, the govt. has passed laws that protect workers - employees don't need unions to do that anymore.
The UAW (and most other unions) are characterized by manipulation, coercion, threats, entitlement, and complacency.
I am an eye witness to the lethargic attitudes of most union workers (oxymoron). The end result? Why not ask Ford and GM. The sloppy-built products they produce are not desired by the public. And those that do buy them out of a sense of patriotic loyalty are stuck with a quickly-depriciating vehicle that often is unreliable.

Wake up America. Stop blaming CEO's and executives and look at the workers who are representing the greed and deception of organized labor.

Missouri MBA wrote:

<quoted text>I know UAW and other labor groups will automatically dismiss anything I say here since my name shows my education/level. Regardless, I am a former union member & have a brother who is a UAW member in St. Louis.
Unions performed an important role in our nation many years ago. Since that time, the govt. has passed laws that protect workers - employees don't need unions to do that anymore.
The UAW (and most other unions) are characterized by manipulation, coercion, threats, entitlement, and complacency.
I am an eye witness to the lethargic attitudes of most union workers (oxymoron). The end result? Why not ask Ford and GM. The sloppy-built products they produce are not desired by the public. And those that do buy them out of a sense of patriotic loyalty are stuck with a quickly-depriciating vehicle that often is unreliable.

Wake up America. Stop blaming CEO's and executives and look at the workers who are representing the greed and deception of organized labor.

Amen.

Go tell your local law enforcement to get out of there union to. What do you think they would tell you.

Missouri MBA wrote:

<quoted text>I know UAW and other labor groups will automatically dismiss anything I say here since my name shows my education/level. Regardless, I am a former union member & have a brother who is a UAW member in St. Louis.
Unions performed an important role in our nation many years ago. Since that time, the govt. has passed laws that protect workers - employees don't need unions to do that anymore.
The UAW (and most other unions) are characterized by manipulation, coercion, threats, entitlement, and complacency.
I am an eye witness to the lethargic attitudes of most union workers (oxymoron). The end result? Why not ask Ford and GM. The sloppy-built products they produce are not desired by the public. And those that do buy them out of a sense of patriotic loyalty are stuck with a quickly-depriciating vehicle that often is unreliable.

Wake up America. Stop blaming CEO's and executives and look at the workers who are representing the greed and deception of organized labor.

TO MISSOURI MBA: Enron, Worldcom, Milkin and the Junk Bond scandal, the Savings and Loan scandal... I could go on, were not union jobs. Those were jobs where manipulating the market was rewarded more than hard work. You ignore all of that. Also, the fireman and policemen who died on 9/11 were all union men. You ignore that. So were this airline workers aboard the planes. To cast them all aside as lazy and un American while defending CEOs as misunderstood is beyond me.You only like to talk about 9/11 when promoting IRAQ.

BRENDA I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds like hard work. I suggest you read thru some of the postings on here. Lots of anti-union falsehoods!