Does Isaiah 7:14 Prophesize the Virgin Birth of Jesus?

Allen Richards wrote:

Is that what I said? Please quote me verbatim when you say I “claimed” something?

Sir, at post #3479, you claimed that I said,“many people,” which is blatantly inaccurate. In fact, sir, you later claimed that “many people” meant the exact same thing as *a large number of people,* right? At any rate, sir, the following is a *verbatim* quote of what you said:

Allen Richards wrote:

Word games. In the post I was replying to you said “many people.” I have never said “many people” or “a large number of people!”

Allen Richards wrote:

By all means let us continue this meaningless digression. While I did say “many people” in the post you have referred to, it is >>not<< an appeal to popularity!

Wow sir! I do not consider it a “meaningless digression” when you call me a liar (post #3463) for asserting that you were arguing from popularity by your use the term “many people,” right?

Allen Richards wrote:

Had you been trying to truthfully and accurately relate what I said you would have included the entire sentence?

Sir, I only need to point out the part of the sentence that made it an argument from popularity. And in the light, sir, the premise of your argument was that since “many people emphasis ..., thus, I will continue ...,“ right? In other words, sir, since many people used total caps, then it was acceptable to do so (smile).

Allen Richards wrote:

But since you chose to quote “two words” out-of-context you were being deliberately dishonest! Here is what I said,“My experience on the internet indicates to me that many people emphasize a word or short phrase with all caps, thus I will continue to exercise my right to think for myself.” I was simply relating my experience.

Sir, please read the following excerpt that I wrote at post #3498 as follows:

gundee123 wrote:

Sir, I most respectfully disagree with your assertion that you *never* said “many people.” But please do not take my word for it, but rather read the following excerpt from a “verbatim quote” that you made at post #3450:

Allen Richards wrote:

My experience on the internet indicates to me that many people emphasize a word or short phrase with all caps, thus I will continue to execise my right to think for myself.

Allen Richards wrote:

Well, sir,“Are you going to continue to claim that you have *never said*“many people,” even when the irrefutable evidence is against you,” if you do not mind my asking (smile)?

Okay, sir, it appears that you are now arguing that I was being “deliberately dishonest” by only quoting “two words” out-of-context,” even though the evidence clearly showed that I quoted the entire sentence *verbatim,* right? However, sir, since you have a standard of *not* apologizing, then I will not expect one (smile).

Allen Richards wrote:

When you show me that I have materially misrepresented what you said, your objections might have some merit, until then nothing but meaningless ranting about minutia.

Sir, please refer to my above comments, whereas I demonstrated that you accused me of being “deliberately dishonest” by quoting you “out-of-context,” despite the fact that I had quoted what you said verbatim and in its entirety, right (smile)?...

....

Allen Richards wrote:

More of your endlessly repetitive misrepresentation and ranting. I quoted common knowledge from Wiki one time and I offered to quote the same definition from at least three other sources.

Sir, regardless of what specifically you quoted from the Wikipedia, you are the one who asserted that you considered it “to be about as reliable as the scribblings on a public rest room wall!” And get this, sir, you placed an exclamation mark at the end of your comment, right?

As such, sir, now that it appears that you are attempting to minimize your use of Wiki as an authoritative source, I hope that you would also be so kind as to explain why you placed an *exclamation mark* at the end of your statement (smile).

Allen Richards wrote:

I did >>not<< cite Wiki as authoritative on any meaningful topic certainly not any philosophical/Biblical/Theolog ical subject.

Sir, please see my above comment (smile).

Allen Richards wrote:

You can start acting like a mature adult any time now.

Well sir, I thought it was you who had been calling others liars, saying that they were wrong and playing fast and loose with the truth, accusing them of being deliberately dishonest and offering meaningless rant, etc. And if so, sir,“Are you suggesting that I and others start acting like a mature adult by following your lead,” if you do not mind my asking (smile)?

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry Kemo Sabe not interested in arguments about the existence of God. There are other threads where that is the topic.

No one is arguing about the exixtence of god/s, Tonto!
The question to you was why would the bible god take his people out of Egypt and put them back into the Egyptian Empire?

I mean, you are the one who posted the passage Exodus 3:12, yes?

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T6VK6PJ...

You >can't< find the passages in the NT, can you?
Therefore, you must refer to cut and paste comments on these subjects that are nothing more than speculations.
Why are they speculations?
Because there are NO facts!!

Many Cults do that to protect themselves from thinking.

Isn't history great especially when it comes to exposing lies?

I would say, though, that you would make a great politician.
When facts and evidence cannot be presented then just bullshit the people.

However, you'll never get my vote...LOL

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
Meaningless rant! In the article I posted the author clearly addressed how the Isaiah prophecy related to Jesus. Your insistence that your questions be answered in a specific way are meaningless. I have already proved that you know virtually nothing about Hebrew. You thought that "ben" meant "son of" and that it was the abbreviation of Benjamin. You could not recognize the plural personal pronoun "lkm"in Isa 7:14. And you did not know what a sof passuq was and claimed that Isa 7:14 and 15 were part of one long sentence.
The fact that you do not like Miller's explanation and it does not say what you want it to, does not mean that he did not address the issue.

You just love it when others have to think for you, don't you?
It's so easy that way,yes?

You say that this poster and others don't know anything about Hebrew, but yet in your own ignorance, deny the Jewish prophecy of the coming of the messiah who must meet certain criteria and most importantly, to be introduced by the prophet Elijah.

Mr C&P Richards, it's easy for all to see that your boat has sunk.
You're hanging on to a temporary life preserver with sharks wearing yarmulkes.
It's their book and prophecy, not yours.

Your life preserver will give way when their messiah appears, according to their terms, and you'll realize that your cut and paste nonsense was all done in vain.

Shalom...LOL

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
Not only have you not read Miller you either have not read what I posted or you are lying. Try again?

Sure.

Nothing in Miller's work specifically connects Isaiah Chapter 7:15-25 to any person or event in the 1st century. I don't say he doesn't speak of them at all. He spends some time assigning them to events in the 8th century, which, really, is what we've been saying all along. Somehow we're supposed to believe that, but this one verse, v.14, is allegedly for another time and place. That, son, is cherry-picking.

Let us take this Christian methodology and apply it to the rest of the Bible, shall we? That seems fair. Let us look at, say, Psalm 14:1:

"There is no God".

Well, there you go. We've treated it exactly like Christians treat Isaiah 7:14. According to the Christian example, we have "proved" that God does not exist.

Nothing more to see here. Please clean up your stations and turn out the lights before you leave. Thank you for playing.

correction to post 3514:

gundee123 wrote:

Well, sir,“Are you going to continue to claim that you have *never said*“many people,” even when the irrefutable evidence is against you,” if you do not mind my asking (smile)?

Abe Lincoln prophesized that Fundies will take over the USA:
"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom "

See. You can make anything mean anything.

This all just pick something to fit what you already decided is a "fact".
It stems from having so many doubts of what you bekieve that you start to create justifications out of nothigness.

jesus liked children

like michael jackson

innocent

playful

joyous

erect

Allen Richards wrote:

You can start acting like a mature adult any time now.

Sir, after reconsidering your above comment, I will concede that you are absolutely correct.

As such, sir, rather than continuing to entertain the numerous *side-bar discussions* and *derailments* that you have proffered to what should have been a very insightful, enlightening, and thought provoking debate in reference to the title of this thread, I will now act like a *mature adult* by no longer entertaining any comments that you post that are not related to the questioned at hand, i.e.,“Does Isaiah 7:14 Prophesize the Virgin Birth of Jesus?

So, with this in mind, sir, I (as the mature adult) most respectfully submit that if you suppose that Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus’ virgin birth, then I challenge you to answer the following questions “in your own words,* as opposed to a lengthy *copy and paste* response, with all due respect:

(1) Why wasn’t Jesus either named or ever called Immanuel, which was the third part of the sign that Isaiah revealed to King Ahaz and the House of David at Isaiah 7:14?

(2) Why was Immanuel on a restricted diet that only consisted of “butter and honey”?

(3) What was the name of the two kings who were be forsaken before Immanuel (Jesus) reached the age of accountability (in which he would know right from wrong)?

(4) What significant benefit would King Ahaz and the Kingdom of Judah (whom were under a military crisis) receive from a prophecy that would not come to fruition until 700+ years later?

Well, sir, now that we have hopefully elevated this debate to actual topic of this thread, I trust that you are ready to respond accordingly (smile).

gundee123 wrote:

Sir, when you claimed that *Theologians and Bible scholars* generally accepted the Bible books as authentic without naming who specifically they are, you were in fact referring to anonymous people, right?

Still wrong! The identities of those Theologians and Bible scholars are readily available. And FYI I have not seen a definition which fits your opinion.

Furthermore, sir, I would be very interesting in the non-anonymous source that you cited that directly addressed the issue of Isaiah 7:15-16 as it related to Jesus, if you care to accept this challenge (smile).

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T6VK6PJ...

Well, unlike you, sir, I have never said that you were “Wrong!” In fact, sir, this is why I wrote the newsflash, right (smile)?

I did not say you did, I quoted your won words!

Dispense sir! If so, sir, then I guess that you no longer want to abide by the standard that you created a few pages ago, i.e.,“Then you should have no objection to me continuing to exercise my right to think for myself and make no apology when that results in opinions which you or others may consider degdrading, demeaning, and/or insulting.”– post #3450 (smile).

Do as you please! Continue to post your infantile, irrelevant comments about my friend!

gundee123 wrote:

Sir, after reconsidering your above comment, I will concede that you are absolutely correct.
As such, sir, rather than continuing to entertain the numerous *side-bar discussions* and *derailments* that you have proffered to what should have been a very insightful, enlightening, and thought provoking debate in reference to the title of this thread, I will now act like a *mature adult* by no longer entertaining any comments that you post that are not related to the questioned at hand, i.e.,“Does Isaiah 7:14 Prophesize the Virgin Birth of Jesus?
So, with this in mind, sir, I (as the mature adult) most respectfully submit that if you suppose that Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus’ virgin birth, then I challenge you to answer the following questions “in your own words,* as opposed to a lengthy *copy and paste* response, with all due respect:
(1) Why wasn’t Jesus either named or ever called Immanuel, which was the third part of the sign that Isaiah revealed to King Ahaz and the House of David at Isaiah 7:14?
(2) Why was Immanuel on a restricted diet that only consisted of “butter and honey”?
(3) What was the name of the two kings who were be forsaken before Immanuel (Jesus) reached the age of accountability (in which he would know right from wrong)?
(4) What significant benefit would King Ahaz and the Kingdom of Judah (whom were under a military crisis) receive from a prophecy that would not come to fruition until 700+ years later?
Well, sir, now that we have hopefully elevated this debate to actual topic of this thread, I trust that you are ready to respond accordingly (smile).

I have already addressed all of this in this thread. Since you keep track of what I post and when, please feel free to look up the posts.

[QUOTE who=”gundee123”]Sir, with all due respect, I refuse to continue to argue the difference between the words *implies* and “infers” with you. However, sir,*copy and paste* is simply a computer term which means to highlight and reproduce a text from one source and move it to another destination. As such, sir, there is absolutely nothing about this computer term that *implies* plagiary,* unless one was to *infer* that it was, right (smile)?[/QUOTE]

I am well aware of your OCD habit of making irrelevant digressions concerning infer/imply and other minutia. As if someone saying e.g. another person said ”car” instead of “automobile,” or “strike” instead of “hit” was a major offense.

Allen Richards wrote:

Still wrong! The identities of those Theologians and Bible scholars are readily available. And FYI I have not seen a definition which fits your opinion.
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T6VK6PJ...
<quoted text>
I did not say you did, I quoted your won words!
<quoted text>
Do as you please! Continue to post your infantile, irrelevant comments about my friend!

With all due respect, sir, since nothing in this post addresses the issue of whether or not Isaiah 7:14 prophesized the virgin birth of Jesus, I am going to act like a *mature adult* and refrain from responding to it, okay (smile)?&#8195;

Allen reminds me of a drunk at the bar who insults someone then gets beaten up to the point of near death because he is too stupid or arrogant to admit he was wrong.