House Looks for Answers in Tillman Case

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bill_...

Vietnam veteran Bill Perry, who participated in the Tet offensive of 1968:
I'm NOT looking for an argument here, on what Wes Clark may, or may NOT have said on Keith Olberman's MSNBC show.

What I DO want to mention is my highly personal experience of killing 4 men at extremely close range, with an M-16. The Doctors examining Pat Tillman stated there was "an extremely close shot group "....(and they added "fired from less than 10 yards" away).

I'm an expert marksman, and I killed 4 men who ran right up on my point position, AFTER an ambush began, them not realizing I was so far removed from the other 28 men in my platoon. These men were about 3 to 4 yards away, and I had excellent cover... I had probably killed all 4 of them with just my first 6 shots from the expended 19 round magazine... and I went through their pockets, afterwards, while they were still warm.
There was NOTHING CLOSE to a "Shot group" on any of these men. Their wounds reflected their flailing & flying bodies as I blew them away.

A "Shot group" on Pat Tillman's forehead indicates ONE shot killed him, and then he was "double checked", then "triple checked" at POINT BLANK range, to make sure he was dead.( 3 shots = "Shot Group" )

When the 1st shot hits something like a head or arm, it swings wildly BEFORE the 2nd or 3rd shot can hit it. A "Shot group" indicates the head was up against something ( like the ground ), and the shots were fired on "semi-auto", NOT full automatic.

If there were a "fog of war" or an actual ambush, everybody would be on "auto", and you wouldn't EVER find "shot groups." Our After Action Report of our particular firefight indicated 56 KIA, and, believe me, there wasn't a "Shot Group" on any of them.

Not responsible for what happened on theri watch? Those are word of weasals not men.

#1 - Yyou can't trust any politician anymore, point being, look at the world! You or I didn't make this happen!
#2 - Pat Tillman was fragged. NFL Gung Ho doesn't work on the battlefiield. Those other soldiers wanted to come home in one piece. Pat Tillman probably seen it differently!

Tillman was MURDERED wrote:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bill_...
Vietnam veteran Bill Perry, who participated in the Tet offensive of 1968:
I'm NOT looking for an argument here, on what Wes Clark may, or may NOT have said on Keith Olberman's MSNBC show.
What I DO want to mention is my highly personal experience of killing 4 men at extremely close range, with an M-16. The Doctors examining Pat Tillman stated there was "an extremely close shot group "....(and they added "fired from less than 10 yards" away).
I'm an expert marksman, and I killed 4 men who ran right up on my point position, AFTER an ambush began, them not realizing I was so far removed from the other 28 men in my platoon. These men were about 3 to 4 yards away, and I had excellent cover... I had probably killed all 4 of them with just my first 6 shots from the expended 19 round magazine... and I went through their pockets, afterwards, while they were still warm.
There was NOTHING CLOSE to a "Shot group" on any of these men. Their wounds reflected their flailing & flying bodies as I blew them away.
A "Shot group" on Pat Tillman's forehead indicates ONE shot killed him, and then he was "double checked", then "triple checked" at POINT BLANK range, to make sure he was dead.( 3 shots = "Shot Group" )
When the 1st shot hits something like a head or arm, it swings wildly BEFORE the 2nd or 3rd shot can hit it. A "Shot group" indicates the head was up against something ( like the ground ), and the shots were fired on "semi-auto", NOT full automatic.
If there were a "fog of war" or an actual ambush, everybody would be on "auto", and you wouldn't EVER find "shot groups." Our After Action Report of our particular firefight indicated 56 KIA, and, believe me, there wasn't a "Shot Group" on any of them.

Ditto

Bottom line: Tillman left his wife and family voluntarily and knew that he could be killed by enemy fire or even friendly fire. Bet he would think this whole argument is ridiculous. It demeans his service.

"I know that I would not engage in a cover-up. I know that no one in the White House suggested such a thing to me. I know that the gentlemen sitting next to me are men of enormous integrity and would not participate in something like that," Rumsfeld told a House committee.

Retired Gen. Richard Myers, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he learned of the likelihood of friendly fire toward the end of April but that it wasn't his responsibility to inform the White House or the Tillman family.

"I don't think there's any regulation that would require me to do anything," said Myers. He blamed the Army.

"This is the responsibility of the United States Army, not of the office of the chairman, so I regret that the Army did not do their duty here and follow their own policy," Myers said.

LYING SACKS OF DUNG

Stop playing hot potatoe with the Tillman family. Step to the plate and take responsibility for the wrongful act committed on the Tillman Family and the American Citizens by the Government AND the Army!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php...

Rhonda wrote:

Bottom line: Tillman left his wife and family voluntarily and knew that he could be killed by enemy fire or even friendly fire. Bet he would think this whole argument is ridiculous. It demeans his service.

I agree on a small scale, I dont like the thought of a service man being demeaned. If however the "shoot grouping" is indicitive of something as suggested by our honorable vet. than there is a whole more wrong than deaming Pat Tillman's service. Our military is all volunteer, so to me every single person serving is a hero and patriot. Most of whom are of the highest moral make-up. Now if we go a little further it than becomes, did someone order Pat Tillman killed? Which brings up a whole host of other questions.

Tillman was MURDERED wrote:

http://www.opednews.com/articl es/opedne_bill_per_070730_was_ pat_tillman_murd.htm
Vietnam veteran Bill Perry, who participated in the Tet offensive of 1968:
I'm NOT looking for an argument here, on what Wes Clark may, or may NOT have said on Keith Olberman's MSNBC show.
What I DO want to mention is my highly personal experience of killing 4 men at extremely close range, with an M-16. The Doctors examining Pat Tillman stated there was "an extremely close shot group "....(and they added "fired from less than 10 yards" away).
I'm an expert marksman, and I killed 4 men who ran right up on my point position, AFTER an ambush began, them not realizing I was so far removed from the other 28 men in my platoon. These men were about 3 to 4 yards away, and I had excellent cover... I had probably killed all 4 of them with just my first 6 shots from the expended 19 round magazine... and I went through their pockets, afterwards, while they were still warm.
There was NOTHING CLOSE to a "Shot group" on any of these men. Their wounds reflected their flailing & flying bodies as I blew them away.
A "Shot group" on Pat Tillman's forehead indicates ONE shot killed him, and then he was "double checked", then "triple checked" at POINT BLANK range, to make sure he was dead.( 3 shots = "Shot Group" )
When the 1st shot hits something like a head or arm, it swings wildly BEFORE the 2nd or 3rd shot can hit it. A "Shot group" indicates the head was up against something ( like the ground ), and the shots were fired on "semi-auto", NOT full automatic.
If there were a "fog of war" or an actual ambush, everybody would be on "auto", and you wouldn't EVER find "shot groups." Our After Action Report of our particular firefight indicated 56 KIA, and, believe me, there wasn't a "Shot Group" on any of them.

Keith Olbermann reminds me of a horny dog latched on to Bill O'Rielly's leg. It's really pathetic, his show has no ratings, he spend most of his show attacking the person that's beating the hell out of him. What a cowardly hack olbermann is!

Yet another pack of lies by this pathetic excuse for "leadership".

Shame, shame!

Olbermann Humps ORielly wrote:

<quoted text>
Keith Olbermann reminds me of a horny dog latched on to Bill O'Rielly's leg. It's really pathetic, his show has no ratings, he spend most of his show attacking the person that's beating the hell out of him. What a cowardly hack olbermann is!

Olbermann cleans O'Reilly's clock on a regular basis. He doesn't have to interrupt or cut the mic on his guests because they're saying stuff he can't handle hearing; and last I checked, there weren't any sexual harassment lawsuits he had to settle out of court either. Go sit on a falafel and rotate.

Olbermann Humps ORielly wrote:

<quoted text>
Keith Olbermann reminds me of a horny dog latched on to Bill O'Rielly's leg. It's really pathetic, his show has no ratings, he spend most of his show attacking the person that's beating the hell out of him. What a cowardly hack olbermann is!

you're an idiot.
and so is O'Reilly, and so is George Bush, but I have a feeling even you would agree about George Bush and his team of stooges, chief stooge Rumsfeld

I know Rummy and Brownie(FEMA)are doing a great job.At least the Iraqi people are free..

Sorry but, it seems like another brainwashed Gung-Ho got "fragged". Blame the "Bait and Switch" Republicans who said we gotta revenge 9/11 by going to Iraq and then sticking these guys in Tora-Bora without cover or back-up.

Osama has to be laughing his beard off !

Putting a few rounds into the pain in the ass, hyper - "Let's Roll" Moron has been around for a long time ... so long in fact, even Fred Flintstone was known to toss a few rocks at the boss at the quarry.

Yeah, come on all of you National Guardsmen,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in mess so bad
Way down yonder in Old Baghdad
So put down your joysticks and pick up a gun,
You're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

And it's one, two, three,
What are you fighting for?
Don't ask me, I don't have a clue,
We know your body armor’s way overdue;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! your all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
The next big surge has come at last.
Rummy’s out and Gates’s is in -
Just tell me son who’s your next of kin,
And you know that peace can only be won
When they’ve blown you all to Saudi Kingdom Come.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don't ask me, I don't give a hoot,
See an Arab, pull the trigger and shoot;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! you're all gonna die.

Well, come on we all know that W’s a little bit slow,
But Halaburton’s the way to go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye,
When you drive over an IED.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
There ain’t no draft, the Republicans sing,
Cause they don’t have their ass in a sling,

And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on mothers now don’t be sad,
Those years in Baghdad won’t be so bad.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
The Chicken Hawks say it’s gonna be great.
Don’t be a peace – nik it’s something to brag
To have your child sent home in a bag.

Ron RayGun wrote:

Sorry but, it seems like another brainwashed Gung-Ho got "fragged". Blame the "Bait and Switch" Republicans who said we gotta revenge 9/11 by going to Iraq and then sticking these guys in Tora-Bora without cover or back-up.
Osama has to be laughing his beard off !
Putting a few rounds into the pain in the ass, hyper - "Let's Roll" Moron has been around for a long time ... so long in fact, even Fred Flintstone was known to toss a few rocks at the boss at the quarry.
Yeah, come on all of you National Guardsmen,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in mess so bad
Way down yonder in Old Baghdad
So put down your joysticks and pick up a gun,
You're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are you fighting for?
Don't ask me, I don't have a clue,
We know your body armor’s way overdue;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! your all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
The next big surge has come at last.
Rummy’s out and Gates’s is in -
Just tell me son who’s your next of kin,
And you know that peace can only be won
When they’ve blown you all to Saudi Kingdom Come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don't ask me, I don't give a hoot,
See an Arab, pull the trigger and shoot;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! you're all gonna die.
Well, come on we all know that W’s a little bit slow,
But Halaburton’s the way to go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye,
When you drive over an IED.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
There ain’t no draft, the Republicans sing,
Cause they don’t have their ass in a sling,
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers now don’t be sad,
Those years in Baghdad won’t be so bad.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
The Chicken Hawks say it’s gonna be great.
Don’t be a peace – nik it’s something to brag
To have your child sent home in a bag.

Disgusting! But sadly most of this ditty is oh so true. I want my Republican Party back in the hands of "honorable" patriots. Can anyone help with the effort to clean this mess up? Is anyone paying attention? Does anyone care?

rummy and gemerals said it was just a screw up === were they speaking of the entire war ?

john wrote:

rummy and gemerals said it was just a screw up === were they speaking of the entire war ?

No! Just at having to spin their way out of the spotlight one more time. Swiss are having trouble finding investments for all the cash they have been receiving of late.

Rhonda wrote:

Bottom line: Tillman left his wife and family voluntarily and knew that he could be killed by enemy fire or even friendly fire. Bet he would think this whole argument is ridiculous. It demeans his service.

Dont tell me what he would think in order to make cheap political points. You didnt know him, so dont tell me his thoughts. You ought to be ashamed of yourself!

Olbermann Humps ORielly wrote:

<quoted text>
Keith Olbermann reminds me of a horny dog latched on to Bill O'Rielly's leg. It's really pathetic, his show has no ratings, he spend most of his show attacking the person that's beating the hell out of him. What a cowardly hack olbermann is!

Olberman is a pathetic ex-sports caster and sounds just like one. Sports casters are mostly little man with no claim to fame who attempt to tear down others to bring them down to their self-perceived sniveling view of their own selves. I wish Olberman and his ilk would develop healthy egos and stop trying to feast on others

Beyondhyperbole wrote:

<quoted text>
Olberman is a pathetic ex-sports caster and sounds just like one. Sports casters are mostly little man with no claim to fame who attempt to tear down others to bring them down to their self-perceived sniveling view of their own selves. I wish Olberman and his ilk would develop healthy egos and stop trying to feast on others

Why, on a forum about the Tillman case are you devoting your posts to Keith Olbermans physical limitations in sports????? If you have something to contribute to the issue, please do so. otherwise, go to the sports or entertainment forums and take it up there.