There is Everything Wrong with Abortion

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Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217589
Apr 27, 2012
 
Maybe abortion in that regard is more like a mercy killing?
No, I'm not changing my opinion. Just trying to look at it from another viewpoint. I still don't believe early term abortion is the killing of an unborn baby.
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Than allow her to kill it? Yes.
Your arguement is unsound. "I care about you, so I'm going to kill you."
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217590
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Interesting. I didn't realize that a death certificate, or stillborn certificate, was issued. And I didn't realize that women would want a birth certificate to be issued at the same time a death certificate was in the case of a stillborn.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/us/22stillb...
What do people think about this issue? How would it effect legitimate, medically necessary late term abortions?
I'm just curious about peoples opinion.
Thanks.
maria wrote:
<quoted text>
People are issued birth and death certificates. When a woman miscarries, especially in the first trimester, whether it's deliberate or natural, there is NEVER a death certificate. There is nothing recognized except the concept of what may have been. A car without an engine is just that. You don't look at an antenna and say that it's a car
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217591
Apr 27, 2012
 

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And, sorry Maria, but you're wrong in this case. Here is another article talking about stillborn or death certificates (this one has to do with Ohio law that I found.)
http://www.odh.ohio.gov/vitalstatistics/stilb...

Also found:
"United States

A 2007 article in People magazine revealed that in the case of a stillbirth it is not standard practice to issue both a birth certificate and a death certificate. Most states instead issue a "certificate of birth resulting in stillbirth".[3]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_certificat...

Interesting topic indeed.
maria wrote:
<quoted text>
People are issued birth and death certificates. When a woman miscarries, especially in the first trimester, whether it's deliberate or natural, there is NEVER a death certificate. There is nothing recognized except the concept of what may have been. A car without an engine is just that. You don't look at an antenna and say that it's a car
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217592
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Neither are you. But a woman knows in her heart of hearts if she's going to be able to give birth and raise a child or not. She knows better than you or I do, which gives her the ultimate right and say so into whether she carries out a pregnancy or not. I especially agree that a woman terminate a pregnancy early if she already has a history of child abuse, or is an addict and can't stop while she's pregnant. It simply wouldn't be fair to the possible infant.
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you aren't clairvoyant.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217593
Apr 27, 2012
 

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A babboon is also three dimensional, just as humans are. Your comparison makes no sense at all.
And, no, there is no comparing a born, sentient, breathing, thinking, feeling infant to that of a non sentient, non born, non breathing, non feeling 5 week old embryo. Hell, you can't even tell it's human when compared with other embryo's at that stage of development. If you want, I can find the pic's again for you, or you can just go back in this thread and find the links yourself. It's quite remarkable how alike different species look at 3 or 5 weeks gestation.
LightForce wrote:
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Whatever you say Chumley.
Probably kinda like the difference between a multi-dimentional, highly deveveloped "thinking adult", and a single-dimentional, moronic baboon - I would think.
I'm sorry, but you have just made this whole thing a bit to complicated for me to understand, could you please simplify a bit just for lil' ol' me?
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217594
Apr 27, 2012
 

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I've got him all figured out. He'll simply state that it's not HIS responsibility, that the woman should have been more responsible, that we are uneducated because we obviously don't know how babies are made (that one always cracks me up, since he doesn't even realize what a baby truly is.) He'll state it's not his responsibility to pick up someone elses slack, so on and so forth. How much ya wanna wager? If he even answers at all.
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep asking me why I'm against personal responsibility when I've never stated that I was? Why do you keep looking deeper into my statements? You're assuming, which is kind of a no-no when you're debating someone.
Why would you adopt a child? Well, let's see. Because you're "passionate" about children having a life. You know that there are some women who cannot/will not provide for their children. You first stated that they should be forced to raise those children, even if that means forcing the child to live through an atrocious childhood filled with abuse and neglect. THEN you stated that the children should be taken away from the mothers and put into foster care. So do you not feel that children in foster care deserve to have a permanent home and be adopted by a loving family?
If you do, then why don't you adopt a child? Why do you have problems picking up where others fail to do their job right? If you're so positive that these women should not raise their child, then why aren't you willing to ensure that that child does have someone to call their own? Why aren't you willing to pick up that responsibility?
You have the money, right? You have the conviction about children being taken away from their mothers, right? So why won't you adopt one or two of these children?
Please try not to answer my questions with another question.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217595
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Again, with that heart thing at 5 weeks. There is a tube that beats that will eventually be the heart, that is starting to develop and can be seen on an ultrasound. There is no heart yet. And organs are just STARTING to develop. Not developed, but STARTING. He/she does NOT have everything that is necessary to develop into an adult at 5 weeks gestation. Hell, I believe it still has a tail at 5 weeks!
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
The way I would describe it is that the new baby is dependent on it's mother, but at 5 weeks it's heart begins to beat, and he/she has everything that is necessary to develop into an adult.
But you and Mp seem to be of the same persuasion.?

Since: Apr 12

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#217596
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Tooko wrote:
Life does not come form death or lack of life, therefor life is transfered from God to man to woman. To say that BC blocks that birth is un true. BC kills the life of the sperm which fights (proof of life)to reach the egg. To simply black that transfer would mean that the spem would remain alive and be used at a latter time if desired. We know that is nonsense.
Hormonal birth control is supposed to stop the ovarian follicle from maturing and releasing the egg. It does not "block" the sperm. The sperm die because they have a limited life span.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217597
Apr 27, 2012
 

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I will not stop having sex just because there is some wild chance in hell I may get pregnant. Consent to sex is NOT consent to having a live birth. I have taken precautions against pregnancy, but it CAN STILL HAPPEN. And I would have an abortion if I were to become pregnant right now. My body could not handle going off my medications, and an embryo wouldn't be able to tolerate and mature in a healthy fashion if I stayed on the poisons I have decided to take to keep my cancer GONE. I am in no way ignorant. It's my belief that the anti-choicers are the ignorant ones in need of education. "Just don't have sex". Sure, in a perfect world, that would be the answer for the young getting pregnant before their ready. But it's not a logical solution for adults who are in romantic relationships who don't want to be pregnant. Just like it's my choice to have an abortion or give birth, it's my choice to have sex if I see fit.
Braxton wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!! A woman being forced to stay pregnant or give birth? DUH!! she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place stupid! If you want to have sexual intercourse you better be mature enough to handle the fact that sexual intercourse may result in a pregnancy and at that point another life is affected. Ignorance is what causes Pro-Choice!
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217598
Apr 27, 2012
 

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And you want a human right, the right to have say over what happens to our bodies, to be taken away. And if you recall, around 39 years ago, abortion was illegal. The government decided that it was wrong to keep it illegal, so changed it with limitations that have changed with the times.
Just because you find something morally wrong doesn't mean everyone else does or should.
Braxton wrote:
<quoted text>
You speak of laws and legality I speak of morals and human rights. I would hope that you don't think that just because something is law that it makes it right. Laws are turned over and created every day in this country.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217599
Apr 27, 2012
 

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No, she has not.
And making the decision to have an abortion when you know you can't properly care for a child IS taking personal responsibility.
When are you going to take personal responsibility and tend to your twins? You can't possibly be that great of a father if you spend all your time on topix.
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure you have. Not in so many words, but in philosophy. Every point in your argument says you're against personal responsibility.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217600
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Please point out to me where OCB asks your age here:

" STILL OCB wrote:
<quoted text>You're just too much on the verge of hysteria for me to bother to post with.
But I will say this- as has been said MANY times before- consent to SEX is NOT consent to PREGNANCY.
And you're calling me stupid?
You anti-choicers suck at SO much which certainly includes the ability to debate CIVILLY and to see another point of view.
Get lost kid, ya bother me."

I don't see her ask your age once.
And, I have sex all the times, and I expect to NOT get pregnant. I do not consent to a pregnancy just because I'm having sex. You're the one showing your ignorance.
I wouldn't call you hysterical. Just arrogant and ignorant.
Braxton wrote:
<quoted text>
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy? That is by far one of the most moronic statements I have ever heard. Sexual intercourse leads to pregnancy. If you can't see that then you are the one who is on the verge of hysteria. Your attempt to know what my age is is proof of your ignorance. Which is a base character flaw of most Pro-Choicers.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217601
Apr 27, 2012
 

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The Z/E/F's rights will NEVER trump that of the woman carrying it. It's just not logical.
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely. Fortunately, that right has been driven back somewhat, and hopefully someday the baby's right to life will trump it.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217602
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Don't you have anything better to do than to report one particular persons post, just because she doesn't agree with you?
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Reported
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217603
Apr 27, 2012
 

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That is why early term abortion is legal and has been for 39 some years....and will remain so.
Braxton wrote:
<quoted text>
In additon, laws are created based on the moral values of the society who the laws affect. You do realize this don't you?
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217604
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Oh, OCB....don't feed the troll.:)
STILL OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Reported.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217605
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Ugh. And an abortion is the choice of the woman who is pregnant ONLY. And no one is killed in an abortion. A pregnancy is simply stopped from progressing.
And what is morally irresponsible about divorce? Or dare I ask? LOL Never mind, this isn't the thread for that topic.
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it's morally irresponsible. It doesn't kill anyone, though. That's business between two consenting adults.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217606
Apr 27, 2012
 

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What the hell are you talking about????? They said NOTHING about divorce killing children. I just love the way you twist words around and make posts totally different from what they are originally.
How DO YOU manage to twist these things around???
Grunt56 wrote:
<quoted text>
The children involved in divorce think it's kills them?
How do you make this stuff up?
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217607
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Wow, what a reliable, unbiased website! A website that looks more like a militia than anything else, has tabs about self defense and basically survival tips. A website, in other words, for the highly neurotic and paranoid American. And the fact that the 19 "facts" used the term "Baby" instead of proper terms, well, negates the list of "facts" right away.
Now, would you like to describe to us what an inconvenience definition is? Would you like to tell us the exact reasons of all abortions that take place? Because it seems like you and the people of this website have been able to get inside the heads of the women who have abortions and know EXACTLY why the pregnancy would be an inconvenience to them. Is it just because their clothes won't fit anymore and they can't unwind with a glass of wine, or is it because their partner will flip their lid and beat them to within an inch of their lives for allowing themselves to become pregnant? Please, explain the inconvenience of pregnancies and the reasons for abortions since you have such a keen insight to a womans mind whom you've never even met.
LightForce wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is just a plain ol' good website:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/19-...
Note that it cites that as much as 86% of abortions are done for the sake of convenience. As for the other part, I'm finding it difficult to find information on right now. Maybe try punching in Google.
Roadrunner

Perry, MI

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#217608
Apr 27, 2012
 

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How about an UNBIASED source? This is coming from the National Right to Life website, and does not source where or how they got their information. Not that I really care. It said nothing of "inconvenience" and listed quite a few logical reasons for having an abortion. Thanks for the post.
Grunt56 wrote:

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