Should evolution be taught in high school?

tomk52 wrote:

Well Rucin,
Just as I said earlier, it is the Supreme Courts of the states and then the US who will ultimately decide the issue of rights for gays.
Did you see today's headlines? The California supreme court ruled on just these grounds (equal protection) to overturn the gay marriage ban. This was the first time anywhere on these grounds.
It is simply a matter of time that complete equal protection will be extended to everyone, regardless of just one more characteristic (sexual preference).
Sometime the wheels grind slowly, but they do turn... tk

This is another great example of an activist 'robed monarchy' deciding what's best for the people of California. It's pure despotism, NOT an 'equal access' issue, under the 14th amendment.

"Proposition 22, which strengthened the state's 1978 one-man, one-woman marriage law with the words "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California," ..passed with 61 percent of the vote. The Supreme Court's ruling Thursday struck down both statutes. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationw...

When ONE court overturns the will of 61% of California voters, that's neither self-government nor democracy. You can bet, Californians will now be pushing for a Constitutional amendment.

sweets2360 wrote:

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Yours is a true passion. Apparently people in churches dont realize that is a perfect opportunity to groom your victims. If you use religion as a cover, you are implicitely trusted by parent with your kids, "Oh, my, brother so-and-so would never do such a thing, he is devout" Best cover in the world for a pedophile.

Hmmm..looks like 'pub-ed' might be a better location for pedophiles to groom their prey, and they have access 5 days a week at school, rather than having to wait for Sunday. "A Kent man who is an associate professor at Seattle University was arrested in connection with a variety of child sex crimes on Monday in Colorado, reported KIRO 7 Eyewitness News.-
http://www.kirotv.com/news/16266033/detail.ht... AND:

"The attorney for a Nebraska middle school teacher who fled to Mexico with a student who was an illegal immigrant said Monday that the woman could be guilty of nothing except poor judgment. Peterson faces a federal charge of crossing state lines to have sex with a minor, which is punishable by 10 years to life in prison and a $250,000 fine." href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311141,00...

Burrow Owl wrote:

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ROTFLMAO!!
Your posts make it pretty obvious that you're one of the dimmest bulbs in the string, but until now, even I didn't think you were dumb enough to talk back to the Topix software.
LOL!

It's posted to point out the hypocrisy, you feathered moron. I was physically blocked from making the post by the software until I changed the wording. I notice that Tom and others on this thread can spew out whatever vulgarities they choose and they aren't blocked.

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Homosexuality doesn't "spread" any of those things. If left-handers were discriminated against in the same way as gays have been, one might very well see just as many suicides. Nor is there any evidence of domestic violence in same-sex couples above and beyond that experienced by opposite-sex couples. As for disease, that is spread by unprotected sexual acts, not by "homosexuality".

It would appear that neither the social scientists or the government support your speculations. The homosexual magazine,‘Genre’ reports “..that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.”- Paul Van de Ven et al., "A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men”.
The typical gay relationship lasts somewhere between 6 amd 18 months. Some gays have as many as 1000 sex partners during their lifetimes. So yes, I'd say being gay translates into being promiscuous.
The statistics also indicate that the suicide rate among gays is many times more than the heterosexual community.
And, the statistics that I've seen from the US government indicate that Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence among gays which far exceeds the 'hetero' population. Here's some references for you: "Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence, D. Island and P. Letellier report that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population." And:“AT THE END OF THE RAINBOW: A Report on Gay Male Domestic Violence and Abuse”, By Mark Lehman.

tomk52 wrote:

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Well Allen, that is fortunate for you. Because that external confirmation from "my cronies" (read scientists) AIN'T forthcoming.
And you have made your disdain for science in general, and evolution in particular, exquisitely clear to all. So why don't you drop the hypocrisy of on the one hand claiming that your tortured theories somehow conform to science and on the other to know that science is completely wrong.
Just go off on your own merry way. It'll be much easier & less confrontational for everyone.
And we won't be put in the awkward position of having to laugh at your theories anymore.
tk

Shouldn't you be getting back to your sandbox?

Allen wrote:

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Myths?..you must be refering to your 'theory' of evolution.
So, how about that political correctness?.. where 'up' is down and 'down is up. Yes, it's a shame the Church gets any money from its parisioners isn't it?..that money would be far better spent providing sex change operations for elemenantary school kids.
It's the 'glorious' state that should profit from the sweat of it's citizens, led by a bunch of 'crack-pot' elitists, not unlike yourself.
Yes, just count those techological innovations coming out of todays' secular 'scientific' countries..like North Korea, China, Cuba and the Soviet Union's 'gulag archipelago.' Why, they've simply run circles around America's 5th century achievements.

You really are stuck about 20 years behind the curve. The US is rapidly throwing away its scientific base, its lead is long gone. Most of the technology you buy today and will for the foreseeable future, is in fact developed and made in China. The Soviet Union has not existed for 20 years. If I need a really good mathematician, I d turn to Russia. And fundy creIDiots like you are driving us to 3rd world status by hating science and trying to get Bible studt taught as science. China has more science students in the top 5% of their class than the entire US college science population. While their political system has a ways to go, in many ways their economy is freer than the US. It is much easier to start a business there, and hire technologically competent people.

Katydid wrote:

Please read any of these papers; they each show a biological, genetic and hormonal etiology to sexual orientation:
#1:
Proc Biol Sci. 2006 Dec 22;273(1605):3031-8.
Genetic models of homosexuality: generating testable predictions.
Gavrilets S, Rice WR.
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN
#2
Hum Genet. 2005 Mar;116(4):272-8. Epub 2005 Jan 12.
A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation.
Mustanski BS, Dupree MG, Nievergelt CM, Bocklandt S, Schork NJ, Hamer DH.
Laboratory of Biochemistry, National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD
#3
Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2005;29(7):1057-66.
The neurodevelopment of human sexual orientation.
Rahman Q.
School of Psychology, University of East London, The Green, London
#4
Gynecol Endocrinol. 2004 Dec;19(6):301-12.
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation.
Swaab DF.
Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
#5
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Dec;1032:237-44.
A role for 5alpha-reductase activity in the development of male homosexuality
Alias AG.
Chester Mental health Center, PO Box 31, Chester, IL

I'll read tour articles as I get time. I presume the correlation rates of these articles that you've cited exceed 1.4%? That means that these alleged 'bio-chemical' factors also create the violence, promiscuity, depression, and suicide tendencies chronicled by the social scientists.

Here's some references for you: "Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence, D. Island and P. Letellier report that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population." And:“AT THE END OF THE RAINBOW: A Report on Gay Male Domestic Violence and Abuse”, By Mark Lehman.

And, lest I forget, the recent lesbian 'tantrum' at Smith College protesting Author Ryan Sorba's book,'The born gay Hoax'-
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08a/bo...

The Big One wrote:

This should be CLEAR to everyone who posted here. Since BOTH Evolution and God are based on beliefs... neither one should be taugh in schools. Teaching or talking about Religion is not ok in schools, and that's because ppl have different beliefs and don't want their kids to be taugh differently of what they believe. So is Evolution, talking or teaching this topic would be the same thing. Schools should have parents ask parents about this class before students take them or teachers teach it. I hope you get my point of view lol. If they let schools teach/talk about Evolution then what's the difference in talking about God. Both side don't have evidence and both side have controversy.

The stupid hurts. So you want no science taught in schools? Welcome to the American Dark Ages. There is NO science that doesn't contradict your poorly translated politically cobbled together collection of stone age myths! Physics, Astronomy, Biology, Animal or Plant Husbandry, Geology, Chemistry, all show your beliefs to be nonsense. The Biological Theory of Evolution is the most rigorously tested and confirmed model in the history of science. You are a dark ager.

Allen wrote:

<quoted text>
Myths?..you must be refering to your 'theory' of evolution.
So, how about that political correctness?.. where 'up' is down and 'down is up. Yes, it's a shame the Church gets any money from its parisioners isn't it?..that money would be far better spent providing sex change operations for elemenantary school kids.
It's the 'glorious' state that should profit from the sweat of it's citizens, led by a bunch of 'crack-pot' elitists, not unlike yourself.
Yes, just count those techological innovations coming out of todays' secular 'scientific' countries..like North Korea, China, Cuba and the Soviet Union's 'gulag archipelago.' Why, they've simply run circles around America's 5th century achievements.

And flock fleecing is much more profitable than increasing human knowledge. Check how many limos Robertson or Graham, or Dodson have!

Allen wrote:

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The homosexual magazine,‘Genre’ reports “..that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime.

Jealous, eh?

Some gays have as many as 1000 sex partners during their lifetimes.

And some straights have as many as 20,000 sex partners (c.f. Wilt Chamberlain, etc). What's your point?

Come to think of it, why the hell have you collected all these (rather suspect) statistics about gay sex habits? What's your interest in gay sex? Nobody with any kind of casual interest is this obsessed with the activities of a group they don't either belong to, or some affinity with.

Which are you?

Allen wrote:

... arrested in connection with a variety of child sex crimes ...

... sex with a minor ...

So you collect pedophilia news too ... how fascinating.

The Big One wrote:

Since BOTH Evolution and God are based on beliefs... neither one should be taugh in schools.

Evolution isn't based upon "beliefs". It's based upon scientific evidence.

***

The Big One wrote:

If they let schools teach/talk about Evolution then what's the difference in talking about God.

Evolution is about science. God is about religion. That's the difference.

***

The Big One wrote:

Both side don't have evidence and both side have controversy.

Evolution has a mountain of evidence stretching back over many decades. The only "controversy" is that in the minds of those who reject it, and they reject it because of imagined conflicts with their religion.

I suppose that one could avoid teaching what causes volcanoes in order to avoid upsetting those who believe that a volcano god directly causes volcanoes, but it would make for very poor educational policy.

Allen wrote:

The typical gay relationship lasts somewhere between 6 amd 18 months. Some gays have as many as 1000 sex partners during their lifetimes. So yes, I'd say being gay translates into being promiscuous.

And if straights lacked legal marriage and a guaranteed support system from their families, friends, and society at large, what do you think the numbers for straights would be?

***

Allen wrote:

The statistics also indicate that the suicide rate among gays is many times more than the heterosexual community.

And if straights lacked legal marriage and a guaranteed support system from their families, friends, and society at large, what do you think the numbers for straights would be?

***

Allen wrote:

And, the statistics that I've seen from the US government indicate that Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence among gays which far exceeds the 'hetero' population.

Given that victims of domestic violence within the straight population are free to report domestic abuse to friends, families, and police, without any negative repercussions in regards to discrimination, perpetrators of domestic violence within the straight population have a great deal more to worry about.

As soon as you're able to eliminate all of the differences in discrimination and legal support experienced by the two populations, feel free to conduct all of your studies again, where you'll actually be comparing oranges to oranges, and then get back to us.

The_Captain wrote:

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I've been trying to catch up on the thread but it seems Allen is a perfect case of "Fractal Wrongness"!

HA! Where've you been mon capitain?

Sometimes I almost envy these stream-of-consciousness-if-I-s aid-it's-true-it-is types. Free self-esteem. Never any shame; no such thing as being confronted by the facts. Hell, no such thing as a "fact". Anything goes...yeeeee-ha!

ZekeCDN wrote:

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So you collect pedophilia news too ... how fascinating.

I spent years working as in the trenches and for legislation against child sex abuse. I am a walking metastudy on the subject. I'm a walking metastudy on a LOT of subjects, but I'm an encyclopedic when it comes to pedophilia. The worst and most dangerous myth that was disastrously reinforced by the RCC scandal is that pedophilia is primarily perpetrated by gay men. The fact is that the vast majority of sex crimes against children are perpetrated against girls.

What is so dangerous about this myth about gay men, is that parents are eying openly gay or men they suspect may be gay worrying they may be a threat to their children, and ignoring the good ol' boy pillar-of-the-church-type or manly-man coach, straight boyfriend or stepfather that is the real danger to a child.

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

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God is a complete myth.
What now?

What now? It's time for a second OPINION

Allen wrote:

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Hmmm..looks like 'pub-ed' might be a better location for pedophiles to groom their prey, and they have access 5 days a week at school, rather than having to wait for Sunday. "A Kent man who is an associate professor at Seattle University was arrested in connection with a variety of child sex crimes on Monday in Colorado, reported KIRO 7 Eyewitness News.-
http://www.kirotv.com/news/16266033/detail.ht... AND:
"The attorney for a Nebraska middle school teacher who fled to Mexico with a student who was an illegal immigrant said Monday that the woman could be guilty of nothing except poor judgment. Peterson faces a federal charge of crossing state lines to have sex with a minor, which is punishable by 10 years to life in prison and a $250,000 fine." href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311141,00...

Please, please be serious for just this post. In spite of our differences, we can agree wholeheartedly about protecting children; I know that. Girls are more often molested than boys. This is well-known, and a tragedy. What is emerging as one of the ways that pedophiles find it particularly easy to blend in and find trusting prey is in a church setting. These predators are NOT one of the faithful. I am NOT accusing religion or the religious. The danger is that people of faith feel safe within a religious setting and with others that they believe share their faith and their values. Predators know that. If a predator knows how to be a "wolf in sheep's clothing", meaning he knows how to quote scripture, and behave like the rest of the congregation, even be a pastor or leader in the church, he will be automatically given unconditional trust, respect and even obedience from others. If the church is very traditional and fundamentalist, women are expected to be more subordinate and children are expected to obey. Sexual matters may be less discussed and considered more sinful. To accuse an elder or an authority in the church is very difficult, especially if one is a child. Case histories from those abused by clergy, not just the RCC, but the JWs, and many other Pentecostal, SBs, etc. tell the same story. The child is not believed, or if believed by a parent, that parent is under tremendous pressure to recant, or call it a misunderstanding; certainly not to expose the molester and the church to the law and to public shame. Six small unaffiliated evangelical churches in my area of the Puget Sound had clergy or youth clergy or church elders that were abusing young girls, some for more than one generation. This breaks my heart even though I am not religious. The most well-meaning, gentle people are being exploited in the filthiest and most evil way imaginable where they should be the safest by the people they look up to and trust the most.

No. Evolution shouldn't be taught in high school.
It should be taught in grammar school.
You need to stop hiding information that the entire world knows from your children.
Here is a quote from Albert Einstein: The letter was written to philosopher Eric Gutkind in January 1954, a year before Einstein's death. In it, Einstein said that "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

The Big One wrote:

This should be CLEAR to everyone who posted here. Since BOTH Evolution and God are based on beliefs... neither one should be taugh in schools. Teaching or talking about Religion is not ok in schools, and that's because ppl have different beliefs and don't want their kids to be taugh differently of what they believe. So is Evolution, talking or teaching this topic would be the same thing. Schools should have parents ask parents about this class before students take them or teachers teach it. I hope you get my point of view lol. If they let schools teach/talk about Evolution then what's the difference in talking about God. Both side don't have evidence and both side have controversy.

God and Evolution are separate. Both can co-exist. But, let's be clear, like all scientific theories, Evolution is based on factual evidence, not supernatural musings. So, you are wrong. Evolution should be taught in Science class. God should be taught in Philosophy, Religion, or better yet at home by your parents.

LWsciencejunkie wrote:

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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
You said it right there! You just stick with your, uhhh "imagination" champ. We'll stick to the facts, and when you need a little help with cancer, an infection, etc. you'll be glad we did.

With similar hilarity, I must inform you that cancer treatments etc. are NOT dependent upon a belief in "monkeyism". ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!thought I'd do that cuz ya obviously like it).

I'll stick to my imagination, which is dependent upon real facts, ok? You just stick with your, uh ...."facts" ...er...."champ".

Btw, congratulations on your winning the Gorilla heavy-weight banana eating title! Well done!:)

P.S. I pity the poor wittle evolutionist, living in a drab, dreary world of apeism.