Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 175,330

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story
LowellGuy

United States

#95971 Jul 14, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a moron chimney and while I shouldn't bother, your stupidity gives rise to more that should be said.
50 whole dollars, gosh, I'm sure that people making minimum wage would love to pay 50 bucks less, but when a two bedroom apt or home rents for 7 to 900 a month on average, because of the collusion and theft by government, wall street, realtors, the media, some corporations and investors, in the run up to the destruction of the housing industry for millions, while millions lost their jobs, housing prices have stayed extremely high, because people must still have a place to live.
If it was supply and demand, with all those millions losing their homes, prices should have plummeted, but the bankers and government simply kept the prices inflated.
Supply and demand have not been a driving force in America for a long time now. The oil industry started manipulating the supply line way back in the 70's, as they bribed gov and the media became an a of the gov, most other corporations have engaged in such manipulations.
Thanks for being such an idiot chimney, you are a perfect example of most school systems around the world, for all with a brain to see.
Monkey see, monkey do.
Do the words "Tri-Lateral Commission" mean anything to you?
LowellGuy

United States

#95972 Jul 14, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Would it surprise you to know that the bankruptcy of america was planned? Would it surprise you to know that those that planned it, knew that the rest of the world would have to prop us up?
The problem is, the architects didn't plan on things going this far?
It would surprise me if you've never watched "Loose Change."
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95973 Jul 14, 2012
The US congress stands in the open taking bribes, destroying any rule of law. If you want to believe those morons are worth anything more than sh*t, or their stooges, the trilateral commission, then stay stupid, you are as unamerican as they are and your a moron to boot.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95974 Jul 14, 2012
I think for myself, you can go suck on your loose change.

That's enough banter with you morons.
jesus

San Diego, CA

#95975 Jul 14, 2012
I think it should be taught. Maybe as a year course. Slowly introduce the logic-make the anatomical comparisons first. These are quite simple. Then move to more abstract ideas like genetics.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95976 Jul 14, 2012
Psychology wrote:
If it was supply and demand, with all those millions losing their homes, prices should have plummeted, but the bankers and government simply kept the prices inflated.
Prices, of homes plummeted, rents far less, for a very simple reason. There are the same number of people having to live somewhere whether they own a home or not. So rent demand actually increased while people had to leave their own homes and rent.

Here in Dubai, at least 20% of the population left the country (since most people here are from somewhere else and only here on work visas). Here, not only prices of houses, but rents, both plummeted 60%- 70% in three months!. Places that had rented for AED 220,000 per year suddenly rented for AED 80,000 per year.

That is the difference - there were still just as many people in the USA. Demand for rentals was, if anything, higher than before.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95977 Jul 14, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh so now they're just "liberals"? It's impossible to discuss anything rationally because you always go from one extreme to another. I guess I'm guilty of that too. No, liberals are part of the the two party system. That's fine. It's only when it reaches the far left extreme and approaches communism and socialism that I loath and detest.
Exactly, but you are often invoking the "slippery slope" argument where you claim evolution or atheism leads to fascism or communism or extreme liberalism. I am glad you realise that is just bunkum rhetoric for dramatic effect, and its not really necessary to these discussions. I dislike extreme liberals too.
We already have very good medicare and medicaid and social security in place. What the extreme left wants is total control of your body from cradle to grave. Total control of everything you do 24/7. I have no problem with limited government for courts, military, roads, etc.
But the bureaucracies just continue to grow and grow with no end in sight for every conceivable service imaginable. If you can think up something at random, chances are there is a government agency in place to regulate it.
I am no fan of in-your-face govt either.
national debt is almost $16 trillion, the budget deficit is $1.3 trillion, and the Obama administration sky-rocketed spending to $3.6 trillion and climbing rapidly. As it stands, each taxpayer is burdened with $136,000 in debt which won't go away by taxes; the
This concern while real is overblown. In fact your govt can borrow at virtually zero right now, look at treasury rates. And it should borrow in the short term to stimulate jobs and investment in infrastructure that is falling apart.
When the economy is booming, is when to run surpluses....exactly the OPPOSITE of what Bush did, which created the massive bubble in the first place. Deficits in recessions, surpluses in booms, each smoothing the boom / bust cycle. Running a deficit in a boom causes a bubble. Running a surplus and cutting spending in a recession makes the recession worse. Economics 101 - not left or right, just simple logic.

Longer term, spending has to be reigned in. Shorter term, its economic suicide. Like, jogging long term is good for your heart, except if you just had a triple bypass operation, when it will kill you.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95978 Jul 14, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
In today's environment, it is cheaper and better to go credit-free and insurance-free. Pay as you go. Rent instead of buy. My best friend's wife is recovering from cancer and it was cheaper to pay the doctors in cash then to have health insurance. A lot cheaper. A mortgage is a money pit anyway but when you factor in everything else, it's not worth it anymore. Windstorm, hazard, and flood insurance, mortgage interest, county taxes. And then it's worth half of what you originally paid for it? Not a good deal. Health insurance for the family 1,200 a month and you still pay? Forget it. If you got no insurance the bill is $5,000; but if you got health insurance, it's $75,000 and you pay part of it anyway! Bastards! That's exactly what Obamacare is going to do - make us all pay or go to jail. I'm a sucker right now because the biggest part of my expenses is taxes and insurance that I don't use and don't even want. There's actually incentive for me to just drop out and suck the government teat and that's just what so many are doing.(Black unemployement rate 17%) More people filed for disability than got jobs. Something is very wrong. Under a certain income? Apply for a FREE cell phone with 250 minutes per month for free! Don't believe me? Paid for by U.S. taxpayers.
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Safelink/abo...
You have to ask yourself a deeper question - why is healthcare so expensive in the USA? I am not talking about who pays, but those charging.

Doctors are a self protecting union, just like any other. They keep the numbers of graduates down to push up their own value, disguising it under the red herring of "ensuring only the best become doctors". Its bunkum. They are vastly overpaid because they control supply. Then there are the drugs.

But insurance itself, by creating a barrier between patient and doctor, probably leads to a general overuse of unnecessary resources - tests, procedures, etc.

The USA spends far more than other countries on healthcare but the results do not measure up. If I was going to reform the system, Obama/Romney care is the last thing I would do. The first thing would be to put a TRUE free market on the supply side in place.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95979 Jul 14, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
All of Obama's "Green" energy projects failed miserably. What else you got?
You mean Solyndra? That drop in the bucket? Look at where the USA has led innovation in the past, and the rosy picture painted by extreme libertarians starts to look weak.

Integrated circuits, the internet, aviation technology, and many others relied on early research and support funded by the government to get moving. Previous govt support of pure R&D, without even a commercial product in mind, underpinned a great deal of commercial innovation.

Then you have to remember the huge subsidies and tax breaks traditional fuels are currently receiving, plus the bloated military often required to support them. What was the difference between Rwanda and Iraq? Hmmmm.

The cost of solar technology is falling steadily through a combination of govt and private R&D. Great. Energy independence is good for the USA strategically and clean energy is good for everyone. Go clean, locally available energy!
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95980 Jul 15, 2012
I've had enough of talking to morons. Home prices were forced artificially high, even though wages stagnated in 1996 for the middle class. They bankrupted the middle class, because the schools had pre- programmed them to be parrots, just like you. The home prices and rents remain bankrupt high, because they have a captive audience. The gov is helping the investor class. It seems our gov is intent on destroying America. While America is bankrupt and economically enslaving the middle class to this debt, it is driving stagnation for the middle class, to just food, clothing and shelter.

The 15 trillion and the destruction of homes, the middle class and artificially high prices in everything, must bring about America's demise and the one world gov they are trying to bring about.

The stock market is a huge tax on all that are not investors. They will keep demanding more and more profit, threatening congress with replacement, because congress made it so. You and they are too stupid to care. You and they will destroy us and that will bring the downfall of all other nations.

The debt must keep rising, because congress and it's bribers care only for their greed.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95981 Jul 15, 2012
Congress has demanded more and more bribe money it seems, since it's inception or shortly there after, by what history teaches and to get more and more bribe money, congress used most all of the social security trust fund, to fuel that end.

Oops, all good things must come to an end, well, at least for congress and it's bribers. They are still borrowing to feed their lust. They will destroy themselves and everyone else.
Psychology

Danielson, CT

#95982 Jul 15, 2012
Even though congress and it's bribers and investors are stripping away trillions with time for social services, the debt keeps rising.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95983 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You have to ask yourself a deeper question - why is healthcare so expensive in the USA? I am not talking about who pays, but those charging.
Doctors are a self protecting union, just like any other. They keep the numbers of graduates down to push up their own value, disguising it under the red herring of "ensuring only the best become doctors". Its bunkum. They are vastly overpaid because they control supply. Then there are the drugs.
It depends. There is a multi-tier market for healthcare here. First of all, if you are below a certain income, it's completely free. Or if you are past the age of retirement, it's free. But if you are not in any of those categories, you have a lot of choices. If you have an emergency or are ill, you can simply go to one of millions of neighborhood walk-in clinics and pay cash. These work even if you need major surgery and they are dirt cheap. And ironically, they are connected with the best research hospitals.

Then there is the opposite end, the preferred providers. This is where they are tied in with the major insurance companies and everything is by the book.(You know, sort of like going to the dealer for car repair and it takes them 20 minutes to change a waterpump but the book calls for 2 1/2 hours labor so that's what they charge you.)

This is what Obamacare will require everyone working to pay into. It is extremely wasteful and inefficient. LIke you said if you have sore pinky toe, they will want a full blood workup, MRI, CAT scan, and colonoscopy. Then they will give you 15 prescriptions and want to see you next week for another round of tests. THis is pure greed. The doctors hate it too. The insurance companies and big pharma runs everything. There is no doctors labor union. Our doctors are the best but they are not business-smart. Most people are convinced and get a false sense of security by signing up for group health insurance and then become basically hypochondriacs.

Again, it's already free for most and can be very affordable so long as don't go the insurance route. Just say the magic password, "no, I don't have insurance", and pay as you go. You'll get better care at 1/10 the cost.(The insurance companies don't want you doing this thus Obamacare.)

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95984 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean Solyndra? That drop in the bucket? Look at where the USA has led innovation in the past, and the rosy picture painted by extreme libertarians starts to look weak.
Integrated circuits, the internet, aviation technology, and many others relied on early research and support funded by the government to get moving. Previous govt support of pure R&D, without even a commercial product in mind, underpinned a great deal of commercial innovation.
Then you have to remember the huge subsidies and tax breaks traditional fuels are currently receiving, plus the bloated military often required to support them. What was the difference between Rwanda and Iraq? Hmmmm.
The cost of solar technology is falling steadily through a combination of govt and private R&D. Great. Energy independence is good for the USA strategically and clean energy is good for everyone. Go clean, locally available energy!
Solar is no good. You never get your return on investment. It kills the environment and it is terribly inefficient to store. I looked into it for my home. At the Solarstore, the guy (who had a PhD) asked me if I or my neighbors had any trees. Oh, well they all have to be cut down. On large solar farms, it's even worse. You have to destroy the entire ecosystem with roads, insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides and make it basically a sterile, poisoned area where nothing can live anymore and it also creates a giant heat sink. Then you need to transport the energy and store. Bottom line, it is not cost efficient and it destroys the environment. Oil is still the best and it is natural and we have plenty of it. For alternatives, I like hydroelectric power. If we could place generating turbines in the Atlantic Gulfstream off Florida there's enough power for all of S. Florida forever. Why aren't they doing that? Greed!

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95985 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Solar is no good. You never get your return on investment. It kills the environment and it is terribly inefficient to store. I looked into it for my home.
Many homes have cut their power bills dramatically with direct solar water heating, and payback measured in a few years.

The costs of photovoltaic have continued to decline and soon you will be able to get a positive IRR on those systems compared to paying the grid...in some places, you can even now.

Storage? For solar in conjunction with other sources, it does not matter. In other cases, batteries are not the only option. For example, you can store chilled water during the day and keep the home cool at night. There are many ways of using the energy that do not depend on batteries.
You have to destroy the entire ecosystem with roads, insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides and make it basically a sterile, poisoned area where nothing can live anymore and it also creates a giant heat sink.
Really UC, that is just rubbish! Ever flown over warehouse areas, for example? Acres of idle roof, not exactly the Amazon rain forest. And in desert areas, bio-loss is minimal. There are plenty of options. There is nothing even wrong with a solar park where you mow the lawn below the equipment! Really, what have you been reading to buy this stuff?
Oil is still the best and it is natural and we have plenty of it. For alternatives, I like hydroelectric power. If we could place generating turbines in the Atlantic Gulfstream off Florida there's enough power for all of S. Florida forever. Why aren't they doing that? Greed!
Oil is shyte. I really do wonder at this obsession with a dirty, poisonous substance, largely held by geo-politically unstable enemies of your country, known to pollute and sicken. I am not about to say "dump the oil" because right now its necessary, but I marvel at people like you, who seem to operate on the hope that the Rapture is going to occur before the oil runs out and want to pretend its a benign energy source.

Hydro, great. Same with geothermal, and that has great potential. But solar is a great source of energy too.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95986 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
Many homes have cut their power bills dramatically with direct solar water heating, and payback measured in a few years.
That is a completely different subject.

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95987 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Many homes have cut their power bills dramatically with direct solar water heating, and payback measured in a few years.
The costs of photovoltaic have continued to decline and soon you will be able to get a positive IRR on those systems compared to paying the grid...in some places, you can even now.
Storage? For solar in conjunction with other sources, it does not matter. In other cases, batteries are not the only option. For example, you can store chilled water during the day and keep the home cool at night. There are many ways of using the energy that do not depend on batteries.
<quoted text>
Really UC, that is just rubbish! Ever flown over warehouse areas, for example? Acres of idle roof, not exactly the Amazon rain forest. And in desert areas, bio-loss is minimal. There are plenty of options. There is nothing even wrong with a solar park where you mow the lawn below the equipment! Really, what have you been reading to buy this stuff?
<quoted text>
Oil is shyte. I really do wonder at this obsession with a dirty, poisonous substance, largely held by geo-politically unstable enemies of your country, known to pollute and sicken. I am not about to say "dump the oil" because right now its necessary, but I marvel at people like you, who seem to operate on the hope that the Rapture is going to occur before the oil runs out and want to pretend its a benign energy source.
Hydro, great. Same with geothermal, and that has great potential. But solar is a great source of energy too.
OK, you want to ridicule and wax crazy again. Goodbye.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#95988 Jul 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Prices, of homes plummeted, rents far less, for a very simple reason. There are the same number of people having to live somewhere whether they own a home or not. So rent demand actually increased while people had to leave their own homes and rent.
Here in Dubai, at least 20% of the population left the country (since most people here are from somewhere else and only here on work visas). Here, not only prices of houses, but rents, both plummeted 60%- 70% in three months!. Places that had rented for AED 220,000 per year suddenly rented for AED 80,000 per year.
That is the difference - there were still just as many people in the USA. Demand for rentals was, if anything, higher than before.
But...but...what about the CONSPIRACY?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#95989 Jul 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Solar is no good. You never get your return on investment. It kills the environment and it is terribly inefficient to store. I looked into it for my home. At the Solarstore, the guy (who had a PhD) asked me if I or my neighbors had any trees. Oh, well they all have to be cut down. On large solar farms, it's even worse. You have to destroy the entire ecosystem with roads, insecticides, pesticides, and herbicides and make it basically a sterile, poisoned area where nothing can live anymore and it also creates a giant heat sink. Then you need to transport the energy and store. Bottom line, it is not cost efficient and it destroys the environment. Oil is still the best and it is natural and we have plenty of it. For alternatives, I like hydroelectric power. If we could place generating turbines in the Atlantic Gulfstream off Florida there's enough power for all of S. Florida forever. Why aren't they doing that? Greed!
America has huge swaths of viable solar energy generating space available. The rooftop of every flat-topped building is prime solar territory. That's not even taking into account dead space on the sides of buildings that could be filled with solar panels. And, far more efficient panels are available now than were available even 5 years ago, that increase power output while decreasing profile and weight.

Not to mention, they could also use green roofs, with soil and plants, to reduce heating/cooling costs as well as reduce ambient air temperatures, especially in large cities, where buildings increase the temperature by as much as 15 degrees Fahrenheit. Less maintenance than the tar and stone roofs, reduced energy costs, and reduced demand for energy for air conditioning for everyone around them.

And that doesn't even begin to touch LEED standards, and how few buildings even bother considering them, much less meeting or exceeding them, and how those standards could be even more stringent without a significant increase in up-front cost (but a considerable savings on the back end).

We've spent far too much money figuring out how not to be efficient, and avoid it at all costs. Why not figure out ways to be more efficient and get more out of every bit of energy we have available?

Since: Aug 07

United States

#95990 Jul 15, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
America has huge swaths of viable solar energy generating space available. The rooftop of every flat-topped building is prime solar territory. That's not even taking into account dead space on the sides of buildings that could be filled with solar panels. And, far more efficient panels are available now than were available even 5 years ago, that increase power output while decreasing profile and weight.
Me and my neighbors are not about to cut all our trees down and my Solar assessment by the Solarstore guy was last year and it's $55,000! I will never get my money back.

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