Should evolution be taught in high school?

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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No, that is not what I am saying at all. There are many complex biologic systems/machines that are absolutely irreducibly complex. What I said was that the (evo) argument against it has the wrong timing and direction, and fails to explain it.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

It would be as if I presented you a mouse trap and claimed it was IC (which you should agree) and then you told me no, I found a few things which are similar to some of the component parts. What has happened is the mouse trap lost some of its components & functionality because the part of the instructions to build it were lost. This is exactly the evo argument which is really more of an argument in support of IC AND deleterious mutation/genetic entropy as well.

LowellGuy wrote:

Digestive organs are singular because we only have one mouth (which is why everything that attaches to the digestive tract is singular). But, organs that begin inside and end outside (lungs, kidneys, testes/ovaries) and do not fall on the center line of the body are in pairs because of bilateral symmetry.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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That's great. But what does all that have to do with IC? What is flarfium? Did you just make that up? THis is hardly an argument.(Remember that you still don't have even one little example where a mutation caused a de novo, nascent biologic more complex function.)

The Dude wrote:

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Which is (still) a lie. Evolution never claimed the flagellum and Yersinia pestis were direct descendents so your "timing and direction" thing is a misdirection.
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Except that losing components and losing functionality completely is the entire POINT of IC, hence if organisms still function then evolution is not prevented by IC (because IC does not exist). It also DOESN'T bolster Sanford's BS as (already pointed out) they aren't direct descendents, not to mention the fact you have no evidence, no mechanism for the start of "the fall", no date for critical mass, and no explanation the current *increase* in population and genetic diversity.

Cvt6702 wrote:

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I have never published a book but have had many manuscripts disappear that I sent out over the years and I have no idea what happened to them.

Cvt6702 wrote:

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The guide I speak to says he is the same one who worked through Edgar Cayce and he has given me some of the health related things that I have passed on to others which have worked.
He also told me back in the late eighties he wanted me to work with him and use my kitchen as a Laboratory and he helped me mix up a grain mixture which we dubbed multigrain and I and my relatives liked the bread and I passed the formula along to many bakeries and encouraged them to bake a better bread using more of a variety of grains that were available according to the success of the growing season and many companies now have many fortified mutigrain products on the shelf and I believe this is because they accepted my original formula and as time went on they created their own multigrain according to what they wanted to use but the name Multigrain stuck.
To take this further I noticed that the Multigrain formula which was orginally mixed for my particular body type has kept my hair from turning permanently gray as long as i et the formula and take the vitamins he prescribed for me and now at the age of 75 I have long healthy hair with the natural color I had in my younger years.
As we know quite often when people reach my age their hairthins and turns g ray and well I don't have hair like that but I don't know how long I can keep it my natural color.
The important thing about this is not vanity but because researchers have said in published paper that gray hair means dieing stem cells and so i think this guide may have contributed a good thing to research from the things he has said to me.
I have passed many of his ideas along to researchers and what they did with it I am not sure because I have not heard back from some of them but the ones I have talked to said its possible this guides ideas will be helpful.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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The point is the mouse trap is a good analogy of IC for discussion. If any of the parts of the mousetrap are missing, it no longer can function as a mousetrap. This is the same for the bacterial flagellum and several other IC biological systems.
Now, a new area of concern arises with the presence of redundant systems. For example, 2 kidneys or 2 lungs, etc. What would be the competitive advantage to select for an additional kidnet when the one works just fine. There would be no added benefit for having a spare kidney.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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I only respond to original written comments. Also, that site is unreliable propaganda.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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The BF minus function is a deteoration.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

It doesn't explain how the BF became IC.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

Blaming bilateral symmetry? That doesn't explain anything. Why not just one or three, or five? Empty.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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That would be a much sloppier method if you ask me. Billions of years of struggle and death when He is God and can do anything? That's just dumb.

Also it means He's a God incapable of telling the truth about His word. That is not the kind of God I would want to be associated with.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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There is no evidence of development of 3-boned middle ear. That is obviously just smooth talking story telling with no evidence at all. None of what you say has any evidence. It's the opposite really; all of these creatures had always been this way with only minor variation. Ninety-nine point nine nine nine percent of the evidence points to stasis and point zero zero one percent is touted as potential evidence for evolution. It's ridiculous.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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No, I think it has something to with right and wrong and what is best for society. The way he designed us is for one man and one woman to form a family and have children. Fart-knockers were not in His plan because it's disgusting and unhealthy.

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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By definition if it can no longer function as a mousetrap, then wouldn't be a mouse trap anymore so that proves it's IC. That I can take the wooded base off the mousetrap and use it as a paperweight is irrelevant.

Judged:

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Chimney1 wrote:

Your first point is nullified, because according to you, God took six days. If He can do anything, and if He should not waste time as you seem to think, then He could do it in a zillionth of instantaneous. Once you ascribe any length of process to the creation, then a billion years is as good as a nanosecond to an eternal God, and it makes no difference.

Chimney1 wrote:

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Your acceptance that pieces of supposedly IC systems can be functional destroys the whole IC argument. IRREDUCIBLY complex, remember? No part of the system could be useful without the whole, remember?

Chimney1 wrote:

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So fart knocking creatures of other species (many documented cases) are also only doing it because? The Fall?

Urban Cowboy wrote:

For the record, a definition of IC:
"Biochemistry professor Michael Behe, the originator of the term irreducible complexity, defines an irreducibly complex system as one "composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_comp...

MikeF wrote:

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Kind of a bummer that Behe got his ass handed to him at Dover, huh?

Urban Cowboy wrote:

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What do you mean? He's rich and famous!