Why skeptics must heed climate change

Chimney wrote:

<quoted text>
Carter was a fool. Gore is a fool. Obama might be a fool.
Of course none of this makes human induced climate change false.

Of course that dosn't. What makes it false is the facts/data that has proved it false. Two centuries of data on CO2 has proved that CO2 lags behind the increase in temperature.

Notice how the term AGW has disappeared from the news. After all how many news articles on the news are you seeing. The only places are some wacky web sites and thats it. Ever wonder why that is. It is becasue a couple of years ago someone finally had time to do some honest research and came up with actual facts that proved it without a doubt while every study that claimed to back it was found to have errors that when corrected if anything disproved AGW. Or we can talk about models that were so shoddy that you could of used them to prove Atlantis as easy as AGW. Models with silly errors like mixing up standard and metric measurement.

Sorry but the facts now disprove CO2 as a source of global warming. That is why you hearing more about methane as a green house gas with the politicians being the last one to get the message again. Soon you will be one of the few lonely ones who hanging on for the next fifty years.

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
Soon you will be one of the few lonely ones who hanging on for the next fifty years.

No, I wont, because I am not on or off the AGW bandwagon. I want to see the evidence. However, I am seeing some pretty damn flaky arguments from sceptics e.g. "Gore is an idiot". Such arguments play into the hands of alarmists.

There is more evidence for AGW than you will admit - certainly enough for alarmists to make their case. By the time you disprove them, if indeed they are wrong, you will have lost the political war.

Whether true or false, AGW is being successfully used as a political weapon by the Left.

I would not buy into their solutions EVEN IF AGW IS REAL.

Do you get my drift? If your only defence against the Left is that "AGW is a fraud", then you will lose.

What is needed is a program of action assuming AGW is REAL, that does NOT involve stitching up the West into economic decline while leaving the Indians and Chinese free to pollute, one that does NOT involve rationing of energy, declining living standards, etc.

For example, while the Left is running this show, you wont hear much about the nuclear option, but nuclear power makes real sense.

Thats just one example. If the Right's only defence is to keep bleating that "AGW is false" then they have already lost the game.

Chimney, sceptical science has a lot of catching up to do.
Scientists who are sceptical of the power of AGW, probably didn't believe that this mythical snowball was rolling down such a long slope or had much chance of getting to the size it has.
Now it's in the hands of politicians, a massive advertising campaign is controlling it, so it's going to be a long hard fight to bring those convinced to their senses.
I don't blame anyone for being convinced that the science behind AGW must be right, but I do blame them for believeing everything they're told and not being at least a little sceptical.

Chimney wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I wont, because I am not on or off the AGW bandwagon. I want to see the evidence. However, I am seeing some pretty damn flaky arguments from sceptics e.g. "Gore is an idiot". Such arguments play into the hands of alarmists.
There is more evidence for AGW than you will admit - certainly enough for alarmists to make their case. By the time you disprove them, if indeed they are wrong, you will have lost the political war.
Whether true or false, AGW is being successfully used as a political weapon by the Left.
I would not buy into their solutions EVEN IF AGW IS REAL.
Do you get my drift? If your only defence against the Left is that "AGW is a fraud", then you will lose.
What is needed is a program of action assuming AGW is REAL, that does NOT involve stitching up the West into economic decline while leaving the Indians and Chinese free to pollute, one that does NOT involve rationing of energy, declining living standards, etc.
For example, while the Left is running this show, you wont hear much about the nuclear option, but nuclear power makes real sense.
Thats just one example. If the Right's only defence is to keep bleating that "AGW is false" then they have already lost the game.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/64...

We'll see when the trials of your fraudulent escapades spawned by the genocidal criminopath and serial science fraud Arrhenius's disciples' trials start.

It's going to be the same slow crunch of MoonBat Bones we've heard since Justinian.

Just a different bunch of kooks.

Capitalism breeds a certain population of kooks selling spooks. For those of us who pass, there are books.

Books of laws hillbilly. Like the Laws of Light.

MoonBat application to join science: D.E.N.I.E.D.

cREEPy Genocide Dr Arrhenius the Sterilizer of the Handicapped in Chief, and counselor no less to the Germans, on the science of Eugenics, or ETHNIC CLEANSING

Just denied on general principles I'd rather be dead than associate with people who would endorse a serial Nobel Fraud perpetrator and GENOCIDAL criminopath

Magic Undetectable lens in the fields of:

Thermal electronic junction detection
Mechanical thermal detection
Chemical thermal detection
Infra-red IMAGERY thermal detection
Laser ranging type thermal detection

OPTICAL ASTRONOMY: if there is NO growing heat turbulence in the atmosphere there is no heat.Case C.L.O.S.E.D. as it explains both LENS ORIENTED and well MIXED heat. Done on that and that A.L.O.N.E.

Gas Chemistry

Ionization

Telecommunications

nO signature of A.N.Y. kind in A.N.Y. field.

Done. We have enough to know. No magical CO2 and even if there WAS the CO2 HAS to be generating even THE PAST temp INCREASES through WATER cycle.

All your non existent measurement but "just look heeyur at this heeyur chart i made up...i had tuh massage the data some,'course, you know theeyum INstruMEEyents don't werk right!"

D.E N.I.E.D.

Get your self a measurable

world gobbling lens.

Then you can apply to the field of science again.

S.E.R.I.A.L. N.O.B.E.L. F.R.A.U.D genocide doctor:
About 1900, Arrehenius became involved in setting up the Nobel Institutes and the Nobel Prizes. He was elected a member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1901. For the rest of his life, he would be a member of the Nobel Committee on Physics and a de facto member of the Nobel Committee on Chemistry. He used his positions to arrange prizes for his friends (Jacobus van't Hoff, Wilhelm Ostwald, Theodore Richards) and to attempt to deny them to his enemies (Paul Ehrlich, Walther Nernst).[1] In 1901 Arrhenius was elected to the Swedish Academy of Sciences, against strong opposition. In 1903 he became the first Swede to be awarded the Nobel Prize in chemistry. In 1905, upon the founding of the Nobel Institute for Physical Research at Stockholm, he was appointed rector of the institute, the position where he remained until retirement in 1927. He became a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1910."

Denied.

SERIAL FRAUD

Jim Hansen: 1971: Global Cooling Scare
Him Hansen; 1988 Global Warming Scare.

Sloppy science like Genocide daddy, "Imprison the dissenters" - Hitler Hansen:

Paid to keep national record, in middle of heat scare HE propagates, records nations hottest year. When told that's wrong in the midst of a HUGE alert his reply as the KEEPER of the OFFICIAL RECORD "It doesn't matter, anyway. We're all gonna die, so what's the use of being accurate."

Sloppy? I need to depend on his word?

Hansen 2006 SUPER El Nino scare

Hansen 2008 "sunspots here ANY TIME and COMING OUT STRONG"
We're in the sixth lowest sunspot cycle in history. Amateurs were openly saying, "What? I wonder why he would say that?"

Pathetic.
Sloppy.
Creepy from just having so much sheer FRAUD around it lke flies on a pile of dung.

So Fraudulent hillbilly science foisted by hillbillies whose reputations are worth less than a jar of warm P*SS.

d.e.n.i.e.d.

Creepy "LOCK UP THE DISSENTERS" Handy Hansen who can't tell the weather yesterday, surprisingly : HIS science AND POLITICS

are identical to this man,

Svante Arrhenius:
Racial biology

Svante Arrhenius was also actively engaged in the process leading to the creation in 1922 of The State Institute for Racial Biology in Uppsala, Sweden, which had originally been planned as a Nobel Institute. Arrhenius was a member of the institute's board, as he had been in The Swedish Society for Racial Hygiene (Eugenics), founded in 1909. Swedish racial biology was world-leading at this time, and the results formed the scientific basis for the Compulsory sterilization program in Sweden, as well as inspiring the Nazi eugenics in Germany."

Creepy Pie-Eyed MoonBat's murder daddy doctor:

DENIED just because birds of a feather flock together. People ARE DRAWN to people who THINK like THEY DO.

I think Jim needs to get sick and retire so we can dig through a few years' recorded evidence in NASA logs and emails etc.

We're gonna see so no mater how bad you want the world to end, to hide you from your stupidity, nope.

We're going to turn your very mention into AREA51 and BIGFOOT.

We already have. LoL. Now it's just a matter of the slow grind of time, and another bunch of dingbats chalked up as victims of liberal angst peddling for power to get fat.

Hear that clock ticking? No? That's because it's electronic, dingbat. But, if you DO hear one ticking, that's the sound of time itself
laughing
in your
moonbat
face.

And if you take a walk, out under the stars, to try to cool off, take your infra red camera. See any LIGHT on it when you point it up?

See those stars? They say, you lie.

and we've seen who you associate with, and ARE.

So we'll just all keep on like from the time of Greece and before.

Remember when "Consensus" said, that whoring like mad didn't make you get venereal disease?

35 million dead folks later, a consensus of 35 million people say beware liberals with dramatic claims about the laws of reality getting flipped because they said

in spite of what your instruments say.

Because they'll consensus themselves and you too, into one disaster after another.

Look: California, crown jewel. No, Liberal Socialist Wasteland.

Goofy Moonbat Theatrics

denied.

if you want to go lay in the surf and sputter for air hoping an news camera comes,

you can talk to them.

LoL. "The oceans are rising! I'm DROWNING!"

I know people are ranting about global warming thinking they can fix things like having electrics cars and such. Don't you think for every action there is an equal opposite reaction?

People generally think they are doing good, but energy is still being used that creates carbon and worst things.

Look at the electric car. It has massive batteries that are made using plastics, heavy metals, maybe acid, etc. What is their carbon footprint from "cradle to grave?" More demand of electricity is needed to charge those batteries. Electrical efficiency is reduced by each step in the process.

Fluorescent lamps also take more energy to manufacture and dispose. Think about how much energy it takes to obtain the materials.

I've been up most the night, so I'm extremely tired. However, I would like people to actually start thinking for themselves instead of having politics cloud their minds.

The fact is this planet is getting more crowded by the second and we cannot sustain the growth of humankind at some point and time. Then what do we do?

Alpha1 wrote:

I know people are ranting about global warming thinking they can fix things like having electrics cars and such. Don't you think for every action there is an equal opposite reaction?
People generally think they are doing good, but energy is still being used that creates carbon and worst things.
Look at the electric car. It has massive batteries that are made using plastics, heavy metals, maybe acid, etc. What is their carbon footprint from "cradle to grave?" More demand of electricity is needed to charge those batteries. Electrical efficiency is reduced by each step in the process.
Fluorescent lamps also take more energy to manufacture and dispose. Think about how much energy it takes to obtain the materials.
I've been up most the night, so I'm extremely tired. However, I would like people to actually start thinking for themselves instead of having politics cloud their minds.
The fact is this planet is getting more crowded by the second and we cannot sustain the growth of humankind at some point and time. Then what do we do?

A few good rounds of genocide should do the trick

Alpha1 wrote:

The fact is this planet is getting more crowded by the second and we cannot sustain the growth of humankind at some point and time. Then what do we do?

First off we get everyone who believes as you and get them to kill themselves for the betterment of the planet. Dont ya think that would be a start?

BTW what do you care what the planet will be like in 500 yrs.

I Am DigitaP wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/64...
We'll see when the trials of your fraudulent escapades spawned by the genocidal criminopath and serial science fraud Arrhenius's disciples' trials start.
It's going to be the same slow crunch of MoonBat Bones we've heard since Justinian.
Just a different bunch of kooks.
Capitalism breeds a certain population of kooks selling spooks. For those of us who pass, there are books.
Books of laws hillbilly. Like the Laws of Light.
MoonBat application to join science: D.E.N.I.E.D.
cREEPy Genocide Dr Arrhenius the Sterilizer of the Handicapped in Chief, and counselor no less to the Germans, on the science of Eugenics, or ETHNIC CLEANSING
Just denied on general principles I'd rather be dead than associate with people who would endorse a serial Nobel Fraud perpetrator and GENOCIDAL criminopath
Magic Undetectable lens in the fields of:
Thermal electronic junction detection
Mechanical thermal detection
Chemical thermal detection
Infra-red IMAGERY thermal detection
Laser ranging type thermal detection
OPTICAL ASTRONOMY: if there is NO growing heat turbulence in the atmosphere there is no heat.Case C.L.O.S.E.D. as it explains both LENS ORIENTED and well MIXED heat. Done on that and that A.L.O.N.E.
Gas Chemistry
Ionization
Telecommunications
nO signature of A.N.Y. kind in A.N.Y. field.
Done. We have enough to know. No magical CO2 and even if there WAS the CO2 HAS to be generating even THE PAST temp INCREASES through WATER cycle.
All your non existent measurement but "just look heeyur at this heeyur chart i made up...i had tuh massage the data some,'course, you know theeyum INstruMEEyents don't werk right!"
D.E N.I.E.D.
Get your self a measurable
world gobbling lens.
Then you can apply to the field of science again.

Dear King of Insane Rants,

Read my post again.

Chimney wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear King of Insane Rants,
Read my post again.

I'm not your dear. I read it the first time. You aren't owed to see or read the truth of anything but once. You have it hundreds of times from three different directions:
Firstly the principle architects are kooks; disciples of a kook

We HAVE the technology. If there was in fact an atmospherically sourced heat we'd have found it.

We ALSO have the typical weather patterns of a planet NOT: showing high atmospheric heating, hence the circulations, various artifacts separate from mere detection of primary signatures.

You're still confused.

HERE is HOW you can CLEAR THAT UP

Go hang out at RealClimate.

Come back in three months and tell us you're not convinced lol.

Go hang out for three weeks. Talk, blog, and get to know the "highly scientific methods" that "Can't be assured at NASA; so we'll run the end of the world from here."

Bob Burns wrote:

<quoted text>A few good rounds of genocide should do the trick

So bob burns raises his personal penchant for killing (along with rape & torture) to nationalized murder. Except for the internet media, Hitler got his start just like bob burns. bob burns is already in the denier brian_g 'ganghood'. Looks like he will take the 'ganghood' to new lows of uncivilized behavior.

Earthling wrote:

The LIA only ended around 1870 and all the hype is about little more than a 1ºF global temperature rise since 1880.
What's the fuss about?

We don't live in Western Europe so we aren't much affected by the end of the LIA. Nor is it comparable to the global climate effects of AGW which change the TOTAL SUM of thermal energy on the planet which is VERY hard to change back if we don't like the results.

litesong wrote:

<quoted text>
So bob burns raises his personal penchant for killing (along with rape & torture) to nationalized murder. Except for the internet media, Hitler got his start just like bob burns. bob burns is already in the denier brian_g 'ganghood'. Looks like he will take the 'ganghood' to new lows of uncivilized behavior.

The mindless followers of the loony dim libs are the gang. Rational deniers are independent folks who each examined the evidence independently and found it unconvincing

Bob Burns wrote:

Rational deniers are independent folks who each examined the evidence independently and found it unconvincing

bob burns, who PROUDLY STANDS behind his alleged threats of gun death against me, & alleged threats of rape, torture & murder of my wife, believes he is an independent person......& rational.......& finds science unconvincing.

bob burns is mentally broken & an unbeliever in science. bob burns is morally broken & an unbeliever in proper civil conduct. bob burns is NOT rational, & NOT independent, but follows in the path of his father, the devil.

litesong wrote:

<quoted text>
bob burns, who PROUDLY STANDS behind his alleged threats of gun death against me, & alleged threats of rape, torture & murder of my wife, believes he is an independent person......& rational.......& finds science unconvincing.
bob burns is mentally broken & an unbeliever in science. bob burns is morally broken & an unbeliever in proper civil conduct. bob burns is NOT rational, & NOT independent, but follows in the path of his father, the devil.

See what I mean?

Chimney wrote:

<quoted text>
Perhaps you should stop tying it all to Gore then. He is not a scientist, he is a self publicist. CO2 warming concerns go back at least to the early 80s in the scientific community, long before Gore jumped aboard.

WRONG! Global warming goes back to the middle to late 1950s.

By the way, there has been no increase in Earth's average surface temperature in the last 11 years. But, of course, the global warming nuts claim they knew temperatures would stabilize. Funny! Why didn't they write about stabilizing temperatures back in 1998? LOL!

Moreover, in the last 1000 years, Earth has been warmer.

What happened to global warming?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8299079.stm

Let's face it folks, the CO2 global warming nonsense is 1975 all over again. Remember back in '75 the global cooling nuts said Earth was headed for another ice age. LMAO!

IDIOTS!

I Am DigitaP wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not your dear. I read it the first time. You aren't owed to see or read the truth of anything but once. You have it hundreds of times from three different directions:
Firstly the principle architects are kooks; disciples of a kook
We HAVE the technology. If there was in fact an atmospherically sourced heat we'd have found it.
We ALSO have the typical weather patterns of a planet NOT: showing high atmospheric heating, hence the circulations, various artifacts separate from mere detection of primary signatures.
You're still confused.
HERE is HOW you can CLEAR THAT UP
Go hang out at RealClimate.
Come back in three months and tell us you're not convinced lol.
Go hang out for three weeks. Talk, blog, and get to know the "highly scientific methods" that "Can't be assured at NASA; so we'll run the end of the world from here."

You are obsessed.

It is not healthy.

That's all I will say.

I Am DigitaP wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not your dear. I read it the first time. You aren't owed to see or read the truth of anything but once. You have it hundreds of times from three different directions:
Firstly the principle architects are kooks; disciples of a kook
We HAVE the technology. If there was in fact an atmospherically sourced heat we'd have found it.
We ALSO have the typical weather patterns of a planet NOT: showing high atmospheric heating, hence the circulations, various artifacts separate from mere detection of primary signatures.
You're still confused.
HERE is HOW you can CLEAR THAT UP
Go hang out at RealClimate.
Come back in three months and tell us you're not convinced lol.
Go hang out for three weeks. Talk, blog, and get to know the "highly scientific methods" that "Can't be assured at NASA; so we'll run the end of the world from here."

I am happy to read any sources on this issue.

I do think some heed should be taken of the political argument though. The Left is using climate change as a tool to attack capitalism. The defence against this should not be restricted to trying to discredit climate change science. If one really has confidence in markets and free market driven innovation and progress, then free market capitalism is the solution even if AGW is real.

Another point is that just because some early C20th scientist who first raised the issue was a kook, that does not make anyone who considers CO2 an issue a "disciple" of that kook. Science does not work on that basis, and this is a flimsy argument by association.

I Will check out your site reference.