What is happening with alternative energy?

Gerry wrote:

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I am not sure on your definition of electric cars. I have mentioned hybrids which are coming out now. As far as the electric grid there is nothing wrong with nuclear plants and FutureGen clean coal fired plants. Actually these have been taken shelved for something better.
http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9930421-54.h...
http://www.energy.gov/news/5912.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/program.html
chapter 5
Also the price on electric plug ins is 4 times cheaper than using gas.
The bottom line we can make our own electricity and power. We need to be more self sufficient and we have the technology and the coal to do it with. It is clean, affordable, and better than relying on the Middle East or some country with a thug dictator. We will also produce jobs. It is the politics that get in the way. We need to show the world what we can do and we can sell and help China with future coaled fired plants. This country is broke because everyone if fighting each other. We are running a huge debt and deficits. It is time we fix our infrastructure.

You hit it right on the mark Gerry and I would like to let you know that, I for one am in full agreement with you regarding being independent of the power grid, there are ways that are being done that arn't that effective, but with modifications and the mind set to find alternative idologies are the key to doing it right, I gave an example to the same member of this forum who feels we have to take steps that would lead to a unstable environment.
I look at it this way We have the capabilities of doing great things but at this stage we have to look for the pieces to the new puzzle that is there, it's design is based on the individule mindset, whew, surprised I got that out as clear as I've done. Anyway this country came into being by a dream that this countries forefathers put together, it was not perfect and yes there where a lot of mistakes, but they have been restructured to enable a gradual advancement toward what will one be called the advancing of the American Dream.
I know that I for one can and will take the steps to enable myself to generate high volume electrical power because I have found a potential way to do it one I have my system laid in place.( just hope I don't give myself the shock of my life considering high voltage tend to do that )
The best thing about this concept, is to my knowledge no one is applying the system I figured out can be utilized, just getting it off the ground it the only hurdle. The surprising thing about this concept is that I don't have to spend tens of thousands or more to get it started in fact I'd say it'll take a few hundred dollars to do it. I expect to get it under in the very near future.

Sammy wrote:

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4 x cheaper doesn't mean cleaner and it doesn't necessarily account for the costs of cleanup after. Nuclear power is a fine example of that, we are still shipping the waste from nuclear plants from one place to another trying to find a clean way to dispose of it. You failed to provide any relative measure of how "clean" burning coal has become compared to say building more hydroelectric dams and decimating the salmon runs further.

Sammy this my shock you but I agree with your point, using either coal or nuclear to generate power has its downsides, what it takes it putting together a system that generates ZERO EMISSIONS so far Hydro does it but with a cost, thing to do is review what other options that will establish the right balance, to find it one literally has to start with a blank sheet and continue for there that is what it took for me to develope my conclusion. Sometimes it may be required to enter untested ground to develop the right system, that what it took on my behalf, there is a belief that one should'nt reinvent the wheel unfortunately in some cases there is no other choice but to make it so. Thats why being American is so special, though there are hurdles we can do anything we choose to do. Remember that point.

darkstar4d wrote:

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Sammy this my shock you but I agree with your point, using either coal or nuclear to generate power has its downsides, what it takes it putting together a system that generates ZERO EMISSIONS so far Hydro does it but with a cost, thing to do is review what other options that will establish the right balance, to find it one literally has to start with a blank sheet and continue for there that is what it took for me to develope my conclusion. Sometimes it may be required to enter untested ground to develop the right system, that what it took on my behalf, there is a belief that one should'nt reinvent the wheel unfortunately in some cases there is no other choice but to make it so. Thats why being American is so special, though there are hurdles we can do anything we choose to do. Remember that point.

Until you come up with some actually implementable description of the technology, I can only assume you are playing with a pipe dream, conconcting a SNAKE OIL potion or just generally blowing sunshine up my kilt. You've done nothing but babble about generalities.

What specifically are you talking about? Using electricity to separate H2O into HHO and then re-burning it?? <SNAKE OIL>

You did mention soylent green technologies. That might actually have some merit. Mortuary technologies have recently proposed using lye to disolve bodies and pour them down the drain.

I suggest instead to use Thermal De Polymerization technologies to reduce the bodies to combustible polymers and use that as fuel!

SEE! SPECIFIC! IMPLEMENTABLE! Unfortunately, not likely to be popular. But you see what I'm looking for.

Stop babbling and tell me what you are talking about!

Adrian Vance wrote:

Not only is butanol a better fuel, but it is energy positive in terms of production where ethanol is not. It can also be transported int pipelines and existing fuel systems without alternation, which ethanol cannot. Ethanol is a product of politics and not science, but then "global warming" is BS too. CO2 is one of every 3883 molecules in air where water vapor is one of 20 each of which absorbs four times as much energy from sunlight as CO2. Water vapor is responsible for 99.9% of all atmospheric heating, but is ignored by the elected class because it is ubiquitous and cannot be controlled or taxed. We can only recover by voting everyone in office out. Do this in three elections and the people will run the country. Let them have one term, bring them home and give them a parade or a rope. That is Democracy!
Adrian Vance

Intelligent well considered observations! I would go a little further and suggest our politicians are now owned by the uber-wealthy and it is past time to storm their castles. I'm tired of eating cake!

Sammy wrote:

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Until you come up with some actually implementable description of the technology, I can only assume you are playing with a pipe dream, conconcting a SNAKE OIL potion or just generally blowing sunshine up my kilt. You've done nothing but babble about generalities.
What specifically are you talking about? Using electricity to separate H2O into HHO and then re-burning it?? <SNAKE OIL>
You did mention soylent green technologies. That might actually have some merit. Mortuary technologies have recently proposed using lye to disolve bodies and pour them down the drain.
I suggest instead to use Thermal De Polymerization technologies to reduce the bodies to combustible polymers and use that as fuel!
SEE! SPECIFIC! IMPLEMENTABLE! Unfortunately, not likely to be popular. But you see what I'm looking for.
Stop babbling and tell me what you are talking about!

Well, well, well, seems I am right about your propective about killing off all of us .. only kidding, well it's like this I have a working project designed to modify photovoltaic technology so that it's open range will be greatly increased as well it will be possible to utitilize it on a 24 hour cycle, and yes this is a pipe dream of sorts thats how I managed to come up with this solution.
As well what I am saying is that you should consider other alternatives regarding you ideal about how to fix the problems, leave humanity alone it's messed up enough already.
You see in theory is a exceptable approach toward developing improvements across the board.
Not sure why you think things should be done the way you keep coming up with but basically I think you should be very careful going in that direction considering the expected life span for our generation will be 125 sooner then later, you'll have too many people looking to meet you under very unhealthy terms.
Oh getting back to what I shared with you about my project it's actually the second, I decided to play with photovoltaic concepts to see if I could formulate a improvement across the board, I can at this stage, by doing this it'll make it easier for me to also start up my first project which follows the same concept, unlimited power generation without the current systems that are utilized on a 24 hr bases, the first one is far better then the second ( just my opinion )

Now as far as further descriptions about my projects I will limit what I share, after all it does open the prospective potential of generation near unlimited wealth, thats why the answers stop here.
I also have one more practice I believe in " helping everyone on this world of ours, after all I'm here to save the world ", that way life becomes more enjoyable down the road.
Understand, I am coming from the outside world back into the acedemic world, my views are based on field studies that I chose to do.
I understand you have you views on how things should be, that is in a sense your pipe dream,( which in my opinion needs a little adjustment )
Sometimes it is necessary to limit sharing of information to enable advancement for humanity.

This is far from becoming snake oil, be assured of that Sammy, be assured of that to the max.

The best suggestion I can give you is keep an ear out for notices in the near future about unexpected improvement apply to photovoltaic technology, the age of the combustion concept will be coming to a close sooner then later, and finally what would you perfer pollution or zero emissions thus the elmination of pollution across the board.

darkstar4d wrote:

The best suggestion I can give you is keep an ear out for notices in the near future about unexpected improvement apply to photovoltaic technology, the age of the combustion concept will be coming to a close sooner then later, and finally what would you perfer pollution or zero emissions thus the elmination of pollution across the board.

I do believe there will be enhancements to photovolactic technologies, but not based on increasing the wavelength absorbtion range. The simple fact is that the atmosphere filters out the shorter, higher engergy wavelengths before they reach the ground. That's one of the reasons life was able to evolve here.

For such a change to make a difference, the cells would have to be outside the atmosphere. Not impossible, but expensive and presents logistic issues about retrieving the power for terrestrial use. Even then, the resulting increases would not be terribly significant.

Greater enhancements are to be had in improved efficiency of the technology. Currently it is merely converting less than 10% of the engergy incident on it's surface. There is definitely room for improvement.

Mere belief does not overcome technological issues. If a technology fails, it is usually for a reason grounded in the facts of physics, not whether or not the operator "believed" hard enough.

Sammy wrote:

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I do believe there will be enhancements to photovolactic technologies, but not based on increasing the wavelength absorbtion range. The simple fact is that the atmosphere filters out the shorter, higher engergy wavelengths before they reach the ground. That's one of the reasons life was able to evolve here.
For such a change to make a difference, the cells would have to be outside the atmosphere. Not impossible, but expensive and presents logistic issues about retrieving the power for terrestrial use. Even then, the resulting increases would not be terribly significant.
Greater enhancements are to be had in improved efficiency of the technology. Currently it is merely converting less than 10% of the engergy incident on it's surface. There is definitely room for improvement.
Mere belief does not overcome technological issues. If a technology fails, it is usually for a reason grounded in the facts of physics, not whether or not the operator "believed" hard enough.

As I said, to see things alternatively one must start with a blank sheet, dispite that being the case the first step is the easiest part of this process, as you know the technology exists and works that covers issue one.
To those whom I have brought this idea too in generality have notice it is unconventional, what you gave as an example is convential based on the limited knowlege you have as a consumer ( potential consumer that is ), you example proves that in it's current form the technology has a higher limit, that is what I call level 1 status all n all what does prove the point further that we both agree is the technology works.
I have completed what I call a level two analysis and have established a clear solution to the problems of level 1.
That in turn is unconventional or as I like to put it " Untested Ground ", what we need is a means to generate high energy output on a long term bases, thus it is necessary for modification of the way this system is applied, I have reached a valid formulated conclusion which in my mind is clear as a blue sky on a clear sunny day.
As long as you limit yourself to level 1 Status,( the fact this technology was originally designed to be utilized in the void of space ) you will find that you will leave yourself in a loop of sorts only able to return to that valid but unsound conclusion, which is, solar energy is designed to be used in the void of space ( valid point ), therefore it won't advance any further then that function ( unsound conclusion ), leading to the limitation you now exemplefy.
Again as I mentioned in my last response, I have formulated a way to advance the use of this technology with a innovative approach that I will be undertaking in the short term, I have previously experimented with this technology and found it works 100% reliably as long as the configation remains intacted.
And to be honest it is quite simple too, so simple that I contacted my attorney and explain the basic " Theory " of this modification, his response was quite speechless in nature, as well he likes the idea and will look into the legal aspects of what I am about to do.
Understand to my knowlege no one has put any system together that resembles what I am about to do.
I know this may compel you to think that I may be a little over confident, but the chance of failure is near zero in respect to this modification, and just to think no one and I mean no one else has put this kind of system online yet, I believe I will be the first to do it.
I appreciate your response to my opinion and hope maybe it'll convience you to rethink your views in this matter I think if you really help your fellow human in ways they become humble, they'll actually tend to really like or even love you.
Keep that in mind Sammy ..

As far as the improvements being applied to photovoltaics the technology is now being manufactured in the nano scale range which basically means it will generate a greater range of power based on it's being further condensed in size, that is a good thing, the older versions are bigger but can be utilized to produce the same results as I have mentioned in generality, a little bulky but not by too much, it still has the high potential to succeed.

darkstar4d wrote:

As far as the improvements being applied to photovoltaics the technology is now being manufactured in the nano scale range which basically means it will generate a greater range of power based on it's being further condensed in size, that is a good thing, the older versions are bigger but can be utilized to produce the same results as I have mentioned in generality, a little bulky but not by too much, it still has the high potential to succeed.

As you said, I do not have sufficient specifics to thoroughly analyze your invention. I can only do so in the most general terms.

I also have a tendancy to hyper extend conclusions from unrelated observations. For example your tendancy to pontificate and patronize at the same time. This leads me to believe you have an inappropriately gandiose vision of your place in the world and the universe. I tend to think you will think of your creations in the same way.

Granted, there is a lot of room for improving solar technology beyond the current 10% or so efficiency. Recent developments in arranging nanotubes to produce a nearly "blacker than black" color for absorbing many wavelengths and converting them to heat, that could be a methodology for getting there as could more efficient metal silicon junctions for the photon conversion to electrical energy. But these potential improvements are not nearly as "limitless" as you imply, not even in combination.

I don't mean to say that "limits" mean something is impossible. There are limits to what the human form is capable of achieving, but we have still found ways to fly. In my way of thinking, "limits" are concerns to be thoroughly addressed. Not something to be pushed aside as "trivial" if you believe hard enough.

As far as patent attorneys go. Most do have a technical back ground, but keep in mind their livilihood is dependant only on collection of application fees. They do not profit from a fruitful or viable invention. They will encourage you to file for patent whether the technology is viable or not. They collect a fee regardless. There are numberous frivolous, fruitless, unviable patented technologies that prove my point quite nicely.

Your attorney's opinion therefore counts for naught.

Your best bet in any case is as I originally requested, "Show me!"

darkstar4d wrote:

As far as the improvements being applied to photovoltaics the technology is now being manufactured in the nano scale range which basically means it will generate a greater range of power based on it's being further condensed in size, that is a good thing, the older versions are bigger but can be utilized to produce the same results as I have mentioned in generality, a little bulky but not by too much, it still has the high potential to succeed.

A shorter way to summarize: The devil is in the details and I have met him several times.

Sammy wrote:

Just beware of the Snake Oil salesmen selling solutions that don't work.
SNAKE OIL:
Hydrogen Fuel/Fuel Cells - It takes more energy to produce the Hydrogen than the Hydrogen will produce.
Water Cars & HHO - Yes, cars will run on electrically separated H2 and O2 from water, but will produce less power than consummed in the separation process.
Bio-Fuels: If the idea is to sequester carbon, so you put it in a plant, then burn it, guess how much carbon you've sequestered .... ZERO!!!
Electric Cars .... so you charge the battery and run the car with zero emissions. Congradulations! Now, where did you get that electricity to charge the battery? It doesn't live in your wall! Probably from your local COAL FIRED POWER PLANT!!
Compressed Air Cars .... First you get the power to compress the air from the Wall (see above). Then you lose heat energy to the environment as the compressed air tank cools to ambient temperature. Then the air tank cools below ambient when releasing the air .... Again, you get out less than you put in!! And where did you get the juice to put the air energy in??? Yup! Most likely somewhere nasty!!
Think it through people! Beginning to end! Where does the energy come from, where did it go and how much did you waste getting there?

So, what do suggest would be a better alternative?

WHAT HAPPEN BUSH SPENT ALL THE MONEY AND HES ASKING FOR 70 MILL FOR 09 WAR?

President George W. Bush is the first President to increase the National Debt by more than $500 Billion in one year!
President George W. Bush has increased the National Debt by more than $500 Billion AGAIN! Almost hits $600 Billion!
President George W. Bush has increased the National Debt by more than $500 Billion a THIRD time!
President George W. Bush has increased the National Debt by more than $500 Billion a FOURTH time!
"Our National Debt is up Three Trillion Dollars under George W. Bush!

WHAT A GREAT COUTNRY. BUSH THE ZERO.

LAST WORDS: YAH AND TO THINK THIS **** IS GOING TO GET A FAT, YAH FAT RETIREMENT!!!!!!!!

Tableux wrote:

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So, what do suggest would be a better alternative?

From a previous post, you obviously didn't bother to read:

I agree. Part of my point is that conservation has to be part of the solution. Another part is that we have to be smarter about what we choose as "alternatives". If the "clean" alternative consumes more "dirty" energy than it produces, then it is not really very "clean" at all. There are other options that probably won't appeal to most humans at all, but intellectually, they make great sense:
1. Make fewer people
2. Make smaller people (we are harnessing gene modification technology now)
3. Genetically modify our plants for greater food and fuel yeilds.
4. Launch spent nuclear fuels toward the nearest black hole or dying star.
5. Start populating space and the ocean with permanent colonies.

There are a lot of ideas that will definitely work, but making them popular is a problem.

And later I added

6. Disposing of corpses with Thermal DePolymerization (TDP) into combustible fuels.

Sammy wrote:

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From a previous post, you obviously didn't bother to read:
I agree. Part of my point is that conservation has to be part of the solution. Another part is that we have to be smarter about what we choose as "alternatives". If the "clean" alternative consumes more "dirty" energy than it produces, then it is not really very "clean" at all. There are other options that probably won't appeal to most humans at all, but intellectually, they make great sense:
1. Make fewer people
2. Make smaller people (we are harnessing gene modification technology now)
3. Genetically modify our plants for greater food and fuel yeilds.
4. Launch spent nuclear fuels toward the nearest black hole or dying star.
5. Start populating space and the ocean with permanent colonies.
There are a lot of ideas that will definitely work, but making them popular is a problem.
And later I added
6. Disposing of corpses with Thermal DePolymerization (TDP) into combustible fuels.

Wow, and arrogant too.lol

Tableux wrote:

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Wow, and arrogant too.lol

Apparently a village is missing an idiot.

Sammy wrote:

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Apparently a village is missing an idiot.

Apparently you.

dcmgbusaworld wrote:

The reason many congressmen and senators cannot find these solutions in the popular magazines read by the public is that they do not have time to read these magazines, because they are busy writing legislation, meeting with interest groups, going to committee meetings, and speaking and voting on the floor of the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate.
I saw a concept car in WIRED magazine about two months ago that got 340 mile per gallon. Why not put it into mass production???
How about windmills to generate electric power to charge up electric automobiles???? The list goes on and there are a number of solutions to these problems.
There seems to be a lack of understanding of the principles of chemistry and physics in the House and the Senate with a notable few exceptions. Because of this it is necessary for the public which is familiar with these scientific principles to assist our representatives with needed information that can be utilized in the formation of public policy.
Did you ever consider sending a copy of these articles to your senator or reprenetatives????
All magazine articles are not created equal. I remember reading in a similar magazine a few years ago that the solution to the geenhouse gas problem was putting it containers and putting it unground.
It would be much better if we use that carbon dioxide to stimulate the growth of corn and soybeans up to 30% increase in production!!!!!

What magazines? perhaps they need a reading list too.